Bob Ezrin-Past, Present And Future

Anything Alice Cooper or AC band related goes here

Moderators: Devon, Gorehound, Si, SickThings, Shoesalesman

mr.barlow

Re: Bob Ezrin-Past, Present And Future

Post by mr.barlow » Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:19 am

pitkin88 wrote:
mr.barlow wrote:Here is a link to the original version of Fireball:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h3Xdq6nKMQ


This is a prime example of why Ezrin was and still is so important to Alice Cooper.

Now just as in days of past it is his skill in arranging and in a lot of cases his help in writing (sometimes uncredited) the songs.

Just listen to the above link and the Alice version of the song. You tell me?
We really don't know if Ezrin decided to speed things up or not. It could easily have been Alice or Dennis.
The song also has changes in the arrangement, most notably the addition to the "Jeepster" like guitar part (extra few notes and beats) in the "almighty God.." section which is absent in the original. Along with other changes that anyone can hear by comparing the two versions.

Going from past interviews with all members of the original band it was Ezrin that took their rough song ideas, or "germs" I think as they referred to them, and turned them into the songs we all know and love.

mr.barlow

Re: Bob Ezrin-Past, Present And Future

Post by mr.barlow » Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:35 am

guttertrash wrote:Why does clean and clear translate as great production to people? A major part of what made albums so amazing up to the mid 70s was the bleed of instruments into the mics of surrounding instruments. Muddy is an issue, because you get Pretties For You, but bleed is one of the things that has been lost in the age of massively overdubbing things and especially the digital age, and instruments are very vibrant and clear, but the ambience is lost and instead a soulless, sterile sound fills the void.

It worked for Pink Floyd and The Cars. But a band like Queen's sound after their first couple albums are way two sterile and overdone for me. It is also why Destroyer and Billion Dollar Babies are not my favorite Kiss and Alice Cooper albums. They aren't bad, but the shift is noticeable and not nearly as gnarly as what came before them.
I guess that answer would be it's what the majority of the record public wants. Alice's two slickest albums are Billion Dollar Babies & Trash and are also his biggest sellers.

Artists are in this business to make money. Especially when the artist is under contract to a label. A label insists that artists make a profit for them. The way you make profit is to give the people who spend money a product which they want to buy.

PFY & EA are considered "avante garde" and "art" by some, but the majority of the record buying public --and more importantly Alice fans--find them to be just awful.

Again, music is subjective and I'm a well known hater of "Trash", but I understand why it was done as well as why Ezrin took the original band mainstream with B$B. MONEY! LOTS OF MONEY!

If the original band recorded and album like Love It To Death instead of the slick Billion Dollar Babies in 1973, it would have flopped spectacularly. That album led directly to the success of WTNM two years later and Alice being able to establish a solo career.

Also it was Trash that has enabled Alice to have the career he has enjoyed since it's huge success.

This new album's success is based on the fact that everyone seems to love it. This itself proves that Ezrin's production was right on the mark. The album sounds better everyday!

pitkin88
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 4478
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:25 am
Location: calif

Re: Bob Ezrin-Past, Present And Future

Post by pitkin88 » Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:48 am

Ezrin's production on the new album is not great. I think you are just projecting like you do with that genius of Shep Gordon thing that you trot out from time to time. A lot of the sound is muddy and compressed. There is not much room for the music to breathe. I'm willing to bet the budget was a lot lower than that on W2MN too.

pitkin88
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 4478
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:25 am
Location: calif

Re: Bob Ezrin-Past, Present And Future

Post by pitkin88 » Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:57 am

Also Mr B: School's Out was were the band went mainstream not BDB.

If an album with the pedigree of LITD was released on 73 it would have been huge. LITD sold a ton of records in 73. I dont think I heard it and Killer until Dec 72. I certainly wasn't thinking this is dated and out of place. I was stunned by its brilliance along with Killer.

mr.barlow

Re: Bob Ezrin-Past, Present And Future

Post by mr.barlow » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:04 am

guttertrash wrote:I said that it is more or less a demo. It is the typical sound of an "album" that one records by themselves in their bedroom or basement. It was self-released, and he recorded it all himself. Some people are great at that. Prince for instance, but it is noticeable that Tedesco is not Prince.

Yes, I am sure Alice is happy and pleased. If he is, good for him. He can record and release albums however he chooses. If people like it, great. Nonetheless, I have more faith in him than just some waning old rocker who doesn't want to be pushed. I'd like to see Alice the artist comeback.

And stop assuming that since the producer is young that they are a hipster. Jack Endino produced Bleach by Nirvana, the original Nevermind also, but the label wanted a version that was poppier. Endino has produced some stellar rock albums that are not grunge related. He is a musical beast who has been around since the mid-80s. Chips K is one of the most well-known rock producers in Sweden. They are producers that make real rock n' roll albums and not hipstsr indie rock uselessness. The biggest problem is that Alice and Ezrin are part of the machine that is the mainstream music business, so they will do as they do, but I can sit and wish for him to work with a great producer or a young, hungry producer like Ezrin was during those first three or four years.
Jack Endino may be a "musical beast" but he was 9 years old while Ezrin was doing Billion Dollar Babies. Also, if I recall grunge fell out of favor many moons ago. Why would Alice want to work with a producer known for his gritty style when the general public has no interest in it?

As far as "Nevermind" is concerned, I'm guessing the record label made the right choice for that album.

As far as Chip K is concerned, if he is so damn good than why has he not been able to break out of Sweden?

I too can sit and wish for a lot of things--like Alice playing Dada (which was another genius Ezrin production) live in it's entirety, but it's never going to happen.

The goal of every band (if they are honest with themselves) is to break into the mainstream. There is nothing wrong with being in the mainstream as it is the stream where the money flows!

Ezrin is no longer hungry as he has made himself wealthy. The same goes for Alice. When you attain the wealth these men have after a lifetime of hard work you have the luxury to do what you want.

mr.barlow

Re: Bob Ezrin-Past, Present And Future

Post by mr.barlow » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:06 am

pitkin88 wrote:Ezrin's production on the new album is not great. I think you are just projecting like you do with that genius of Shep Gordon thing that you trot out from time to time. A lot of the sound is muddy and compressed. There is not much room for the music to breathe. I'm willing to bet the budget was a lot lower than that on W2MN too.
Shep is a genius!

I find the album to sound just fine, but I'm not as discriminating on rock n roll production as I used to be.

I will agree that they likely had a small budget for this album.

mr.barlow

Re: Bob Ezrin-Past, Present And Future

Post by mr.barlow » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:14 am

pitkin88 wrote:Also Mr B: School's Out was were the band went mainstream not BDB.

If an album with the pedigree of LITD was released on 73 it would have been huge. LITD sold a ton of records in 73. I dont think I heard it and Killer until Dec 72. I certainly wasn't thinking this is dated and out of place. I was stunned by its brilliance along with Killer.
School's Out was them making the turn--it was B$B that took them over the top. I'm sure the sales for LITD had everything to do with the band's new fans buying the back catalog.

A lot of Alice fans never heard of those albums until the band hit with B$B. I didn't know of them until I discovered Alice in 1980 and went back and bought his entire back catalog.

I agree that the album would not have sounded dated in 1973, however, it was also not completely up to date with the trends of pop radio in 1973, and the plans to mainstream the band.

guttertrash
Billion Dollar Baby
Billion Dollar Baby
Posts: 473
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:11 am

Re: Bob Ezrin-Past, Present And Future

Post by guttertrash » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:15 am

Maybe Chips isn't a fan of the state of the music business? Like many of the Swedish bands that don't modernize their sound or production to try to sell albums, because they make music that is great. Jack Endino has produced some great albums since the 90s, and it hasn't been grunge at all. He too is not trying to make things that are mainstream, modern crap. Check out Immortalizer by Valient Thorr. One hell of a rock album. Pristine production without a lack of soul or energy.

mr.barlow

Re: Bob Ezrin-Past, Present And Future

Post by mr.barlow » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:17 am

guttertrash wrote:Maybe Chips isn't a fan of the state of the music business? Like many of the Swedish bands that don't modernize their sound or production to try to sell albums, because they make music that is great. Jack Endino has produced some great albums since the 90s, and it hasn't been grunge at all. He too is not trying to make things that are mainstream, modern crap. Check out Immortalizer by Valient Thorr. One hell of a rock album. Pristine production without a lack of soul or energy.
that's why they are stuck in Sweden.

pitkin88
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 4478
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:25 am
Location: calif

Re: Bob Ezrin-Past, Present And Future

Post by pitkin88 » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:19 am

mr.barlow wrote:
guttertrash wrote:I said that it is more or less a demo. It is the typical sound of an "album" that one records by themselves in their bedroom or basement. It was self-released, and he recorded it all himself. Some people are great at that. Prince for instance, but it is noticeable that Tedesco is not Prince.

Yes, I am sure Alice is happy and pleased. If he is, good for him. He can record and release albums however he chooses. If people like it, great. Nonetheless, I have more faith in him than just some waning old rocker who doesn't want to be pushed. I'd like to see Alice the artist comeback.

And stop assuming that since the producer is young that they are a hipster. Jack Endino produced Bleach by Nirvana, the original Nevermind also, but the label wanted a version that was poppier. Endino has produced some stellar rock albums that are not grunge related. He is a musical beast who has been around since the mid-80s. Chips K is one of the most well-known rock producers in Sweden. They are producers that make real rock n' roll albums and not hipstsr indie rock uselessness. The biggest problem is that Alice and Ezrin are part of the machine that is the mainstream music business, so they will do as they do, but I can sit and wish for him to work with a great producer or a young, hungry producer like Ezrin was during those first three or four years.
Jack Endino may be a "musical beast" but he was 9 years old while Ezrin was doing Billion Dollar Babies. Also, if I recall grunge fell out of favor many moons ago. Why would Alice want to work with a producer known for his gritty style when the general public has no interest in it?

As far as "Nevermind" is concerned, I'm guessing the record label made the right choice for that album.

As far as Chip K is concerned, if he is so damn good than why has he not been able to break out of Sweden?

I too can sit and wish for a lot of things--like Alice playing Dada (which was another genius Ezrin production) live in it's entirety, but it's never going to happen.

The goal of every band (if they are honest with themselves) is to break into the mainstream. There is nothing wrong with being in the mainstream as it is the stream where the money flows!

Ezrin is no longer hungry as he has made himself wealthy. The same goes for Alice. When you attain the wealth these men have after a lifetime of hard work you have the luxury to do what you want.


The general public has no interest in Bob Ezrin. It also begs the question what is his style? The only thing that sounds like anything he has done before is the rats sound fx sound at the beginning of Rats. He can't even get a clear guitar tone for Steve Hunter on this album. He's old, bald and as Remarkably Silly said has lost his mojo. The album is good in spite of Bob Ezrin not because of him.

guttertrash
Billion Dollar Baby
Billion Dollar Baby
Posts: 473
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:11 am

Re: Bob Ezrin-Past, Present And Future

Post by guttertrash » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:21 am

Sums of money is not the end all for a lot artists...

mr.barlow

Re: Bob Ezrin-Past, Present And Future

Post by mr.barlow » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:25 am

guttertrash wrote:Sums of money is not the end all for a lot artists...
You're right. But I've never met one yet that doesn't dream of getting rich!

guttertrash
Billion Dollar Baby
Billion Dollar Baby
Posts: 473
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:11 am

Re: Bob Ezrin-Past, Present And Future

Post by guttertrash » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:26 am

pitkin88 wrote:
mr.barlow wrote:
guttertrash wrote:I said that it is more or less a demo. It is the typical sound of an "album" that one records by themselves in their bedroom or basement. It was self-released, and he recorded it all himself. Some people are great at that. Prince for instance, but it is noticeable that Tedesco is not Prince.

Yes, I am sure Alice is happy and pleased. If he is, good for him. He can record and release albums however he chooses. If people like it, great. Nonetheless, I have more faith in him than just some waning old rocker who doesn't want to be pushed. I'd like to see Alice the artist comeback.

And stop assuming that since the producer is young that they are a hipster. Jack Endino produced Bleach by Nirvana, the original Nevermind also, but the label wanted a version that was poppier. Endino has produced some stellar rock albums that are not grunge related. He is a musical beast who has been around since the mid-80s. Chips K is one of the most well-known rock producers in Sweden. They are producers that make real rock n' roll albums and not hipstsr indie rock uselessness. The biggest problem is that Alice and Ezrin are part of the machine that is the mainstream music business, so they will do as they do, but I can sit and wish for him to work with a great producer or a young, hungry producer like Ezrin was during those first three or four years.
Jack Endino may be a "musical beast" but he was 9 years old while Ezrin was doing Billion Dollar Babies. Also, if I recall grunge fell out of favor many moons ago. Why would Alice want to work with a producer known for his gritty style when the general public has no interest in it?

As far as "Nevermind" is concerned, I'm guessing the record label made the right choice for that album.

As far as Chip K is concerned, if he is so damn good than why has he not been able to break out of Sweden?

I too can sit and wish for a lot of things--like Alice playing Dada (which was another genius Ezrin production) live in it's entirety, but it's never going to happen.

The goal of every band (if they are honest with themselves) is to break into the mainstream. There is nothing wrong with being in the mainstream as it is the stream where the money flows!

Ezrin is no longer hungry as he has made himself wealthy. The same goes for Alice. When you attain the wealth these men have after a lifetime of hard work you have the luxury to do what you want.


The general public has no interest in Bob Ezrin. It also begs the question what is his style? The only thing that sounds like anything he has done before is the rats sound fx sound at the beginning of Rats. He can't even get a clear guitar tone for Steve Hunter on this album. He's old, bald and as Remarkably Silly said has lost his mojo. The album is good in spite of Bob Ezrin not because of him.
His guitar tone for Parker Gispert on Private Public Breakdown is horrible. Yet again, listen to The Whigs. You may not like the band, but the tone is undeniably majestic.

https://youtu.be/_h3Xdq6nKMQ

guttertrash
Billion Dollar Baby
Billion Dollar Baby
Posts: 473
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:11 am

Re: Bob Ezrin-Past, Present And Future

Post by guttertrash » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:30 am

mr.barlow wrote:
guttertrash wrote:Sums of money is not the end all for a lot artists...
You're right. But I've never met one yet that doesn't dream of getting rich!
I know many who would like too, but many of the ones I know have chosen to stay true to what they do whether it pays off or not. Alice has decided to try many different things. Most have not gained him anymore notoriety than if he had continued on, but hey, one paid off and apparently kept his career going, so I guess it was worth all the bouncing around. Maybe another will stick

mr.barlow

Re: Bob Ezrin-Past, Present And Future

Post by mr.barlow » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:34 am

pitkin88 wrote:
mr.barlow wrote:
guttertrash wrote:I said that it is more or less a demo. It is the typical sound of an "album" that one records by themselves in their bedroom or basement. It was self-released, and he recorded it all himself. Some people are great at that. Prince for instance, but it is noticeable that Tedesco is not Prince.

Yes, I am sure Alice is happy and pleased. If he is, good for him. He can record and release albums however he chooses. If people like it, great. Nonetheless, I have more faith in him than just some waning old rocker who doesn't want to be pushed. I'd like to see Alice the artist comeback.

And stop assuming that since the producer is young that they are a hipster. Jack Endino produced Bleach by Nirvana, the original Nevermind also, but the label wanted a version that was poppier. Endino has produced some stellar rock albums that are not grunge related. He is a musical beast who has been around since the mid-80s. Chips K is one of the most well-known rock producers in Sweden. They are producers that make real rock n' roll albums and not hipstsr indie rock uselessness. The biggest problem is that Alice and Ezrin are part of the machine that is the mainstream music business, so they will do as they do, but I can sit and wish for him to work with a great producer or a young, hungry producer like Ezrin was during those first three or four years.
Jack Endino may be a "musical beast" but he was 9 years old while Ezrin was doing Billion Dollar Babies. Also, if I recall grunge fell out of favor many moons ago. Why would Alice want to work with a producer known for his gritty style when the general public has no interest in it?

As far as "Nevermind" is concerned, I'm guessing the record label made the right choice for that album.

As far as Chip K is concerned, if he is so damn good than why has he not been able to break out of Sweden?

I too can sit and wish for a lot of things--like Alice playing Dada (which was another genius Ezrin production) live in it's entirety, but it's never going to happen.

The goal of every band (if they are honest with themselves) is to break into the mainstream. There is nothing wrong with being in the mainstream as it is the stream where the money flows!

Ezrin is no longer hungry as he has made himself wealthy. The same goes for Alice. When you attain the wealth these men have after a lifetime of hard work you have the luxury to do what you want.


The general public has no interest in Bob Ezrin. It also begs the question what is his style? The only thing that sounds like anything he has done before is the rats sound fx sound at the beginning of Rats. He can't even get a clear guitar tone for Steve Hunter on this album. He's old, bald and as Remarkably Silly said has lost his mojo. The album is good in spite of Bob Ezrin not because of him.
I agree but the general public has never been interested in the producer. I bet if you ask any casual music fan who George Martin was they wouldn't have a clue.

The general public is interested in listening to and buying music they like, which for the most part is slick and polished.

As far as his style is concerned, I would let his past work speak to that. I guess his style could be summed up by most as slick and polished.

He is old and bald but being old and bald is much easier to deal with when you have a few million in the bank.

The album is good because of Bob Ezrin as he was the one who put the whole thing together.

mr.barlow

Re: Bob Ezrin-Past, Present And Future

Post by mr.barlow » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:37 am

guttertrash wrote:
mr.barlow wrote:
guttertrash wrote:Sums of money is not the end all for a lot artists...
You're right. But I've never met one yet that doesn't dream of getting rich!
I know many who would like too, but many of the ones I know have chosen to stay true to what they do whether it pays off or not. Alice has decided to try many different things. Most have not gained him anymore notoriety than if he had continued on, but hey, one paid off and apparently kept his career going, so I guess it was worth all the bouncing around. Maybe another will stick
The way to success in anything in life is the ability to change. Alice undertood this and it's what enabled him to have the career he has had. It's why he didn't give us a 1972 sounding album in 2017.He left 1972 in 1972.

Saint&Sinner
Fashion Flusher
Fashion Flusher
Posts: 675
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:59 pm

Re: Bob Ezrin-Past, Present And Future

Post by Saint&Sinner » Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:44 am

I am genuinely not getting the hate for Bob Ezrin, I cant help thinking its just trolling now.
He is one of the preeminent producers of our time. As detailed in a previous post, the producer largely goes where the artist wants to go.
As has been mentioned with the ACG he took the seeds of the ideas and moulded them into something listenable and marketable.
Clarity is not a bad thing on an album. It doesn't make it any less brutal or melodic etc. it just allows the music to breathe. The content sets the tone.
Bob ezrin always has the punch when it counts (this album easily demonstrates that) but can dial it back when needed. It never sounds tame or dour.

guttertrash
Billion Dollar Baby
Billion Dollar Baby
Posts: 473
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:11 am

Re: Bob Ezrin-Past, Present And Future

Post by guttertrash » Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:49 am

And just so it is known, Chips produced the last two Michael Monroe albums which are both absolutely stellar, and they are monstrously loud, but they don't suffer from the compression issues that Paranormal suffers from. The guitars are loud and they actually sound like guitars, the bass is thumping, and the drums are stellar. Sadly youtube does compress everything, but it's still decent. Chips produced an album by The Nomads that treads on the production quality of W2MN and Paranormal as well as the Deep Purple albums, but while it is still boomier and more modern than I desire, it doesn't get as muddy as Ezrin does. It's 3db louder also, and it is still easier to listen to than those albums due to the compression difference.

The Nomads
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRSo4_l5e5Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmDHGThmWNk

Michael Monroe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krGnbV5HKl8

Chips band Sator
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6mPMBSObBE

Sahara Hotnights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4tJb3NKGAA

Small Jackets
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZiBCCr-oeM

Sons Of Cyrus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtiJUCRVzqE

pitkin88
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 4478
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:25 am
Location: calif

Re: Bob Ezrin-Past, Present And Future

Post by pitkin88 » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:19 am

Saint&Sinner wrote:I am genuinely not getting the hate for Bob Ezrin, I cant help thinking its just trolling now.
He is one of the preeminent producers of our time. As detailed in a previous post, the producer largely goes where the artist wants to go.
As has been mentioned with the ACG he took the seeds of the ideas and moulded them into something listenable and marketable.
Clarity is not a bad thing on an album. It doesn't make it any less brutal or melodic etc. it just allows the music to breathe. The content sets the tone.
Bob ezrin always has the punch when it counts (this album easily demonstrates that) but can dial it back when needed. It never sounds tame or dour.

It is not trolling when you are being given examples of some poor works. Your seeds thing is very disrespectful to the band. They were not Ezrin's puppets.

User avatar
Si
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 4363
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 5:47 am
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Bob Ezrin-Past, Present And Future

Post by Si » Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:31 am

It seems certain people have forgotten one of the basic rules on this board.
In the last few days I have had to edit several posts for swearing. Stop it, or I will start just deleting the posts completely.

Post Reply