Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

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A_MichaelUK
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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu May 29, 2014 12:53 pm

>And he has made some pretty condescending comments about the whole Norwegian black metal movement, wich I am a part of..

I would say that burning churches is worse than being "condescending".

>but it's just not right to hit people over their heads again and again with religious dogma....

Again, that's an exaggeration.

>I don't know what else to say before it sounds rude, so I'll just shut up now.

It doesn't matter if you're rude - just make sure you're correct.

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu May 29, 2014 12:57 pm

and in the brutal planet days he seemed to talk less about his music and more about religion.

Well, what do you think "Brutal Planet" was about? It was about a society that had gone through a technological, environmental, political, social and spiritual collapse.

>I would have loved to hear about the recording sessions, or what bob ezrin brought to the table,

He did talk about that stuff but most people didn't ask him about that.

>but i would prefer it if we stuck to talking about the music.

So why did you raise the subject of religion, then?

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by E_maniac » Fri May 30, 2014 12:24 am

A_michael,

Seriously you need help. I mean wow.
I would say that burning churches is worse than being "condescending".
Im not big into black metal (i like some of the more poppy stuff, like cradle of filth etc) but even i know that church burning is not even remotely the entire black metal movement. What a truly asinine comment.
I don't see how something like "The Last Temptation" or other religious references that he sometimes makes can be considered to be "rhetoric".
I don’t either, i didn’t ever say that it did. Again i made a point of saying the last temptation is one of my fave albums, knowing full well what the album was about (because guess what, i can listen and understand lyrics etc).
So why did you raise the subject of religion, then?
Because my overzealous friend, the post was "Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career" this was a disappointment to me, i knew several people who were put off from buying the album because of the extent of his talking about religion. I felt that the religion aspect overshadowed the music, when it should be the other way round.

You get far too upset over things. Just try and relax a bit, I don’t know when you were promoted to personal defender of all things Alice but i bet it was an achievement of a lifetime huh?
It doesn't matter if you're rude - just make sure you're correct.
So sorry someone with an opinion other than yours dares post anything, i didnt realise it was only a message board for people who agreed with you wholesale. Because obviously your opinion = fact.
Wont bother posting again.

mr.barlow

Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by mr.barlow » Fri May 30, 2014 1:20 am

I can't help myself to ask this question. Since it is no secret of Alice Cooper's devout Christian faith, his public pronouncements regarding Christianity, his working his faith into the lyrics to convey that message,--why--would any athiest or person who has a problem with Christianity then complain about that that artist is preaching Christianity? It makes no sense to me.

This quote is unreal: "I felt that the religion aspect overshadowed the music, when it should be the other way round."

Really? Who really cares what you felt--did you write and record the album? Did you ever stop to think that Alice wanted the religious message to overshadow the music??

I don't think ALice is going to drop his Christianity anytime soon so I guess you are in for quite a lot of future disappointment.

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by ThePainAddict » Fri May 30, 2014 1:43 am

I am really surprised that some fans don't like to hear Alice talking about his faith. While you don't have to agree with any of his views on the subject it has clearly influenced much of his lyrical content. So in that sense it provides quite a bit of insight into his songwriting (and even his performing to some degree). Much more so then any drugs he has, or hasn't, taken, or how the band met Shep Gordon, or so many other subjects that so many seems to want definitive statements about.

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by Mr.Bluelegs » Fri May 30, 2014 3:34 am

Maybe some posters should relax and read the lyrics to "My God" which can be found on this site. It's a very personal and brave song, giving insight about Alice's being. The music is brilliant, too.

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by Devon » Fri May 30, 2014 9:24 am

Outside of the concept of "The Last Temptation," Alice has only sang a few songs that touched on that subject, out of roughly over two dozen albums and then some. I've never ever once gotten the feeling Alice was "preaching" to me to be honest.

If Alice touches on religion in interviews, that's usually because he's asked about it. Interviews typically don't go "So Alice, how is the tour going?" Alice: "I love Jesus. He died on the cross for me. I think everyone should go to Church and be saved. Repent."

With all respect intended... I get the feeling that some fans look deeper into Alice's beliefs than even Alice does.

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by A_MichaelUK » Fri May 30, 2014 10:19 am

>Seriously you need help. I mean wow.

What a shame. Another person who doesn't like being disagreed with.

>Im not big into black metal (i like some of the more poppy stuff, like cradle of filth etc)

I wasn't talking to you and nobody asked you if you were into "black metal" or not. I was referring to what boy/man wrote.

>but even i know that church burning is not even remotely the entire black metal movement. What a truly asinine comment.

I didn't say that you did not. I was referring to what boy/man wrote. Are you sure you're following this discussion?

>I don’t either, i didn’t ever say that it did.

Well, you sort of did. You wrote: "Talking about religion ALLOT around the brutal planet time, i adore that album but i just wished he would calm down on all the rhetoric". Again, all I'm saying is, is that to describe it as "rhetoric" is an exaggeration.

>Again i made a point of saying the last temptation is one of my fave albums, knowing full well what the album was about (because guess what, i can listen and understand lyrics etc).

So why do you have a problem that one of the concepts behind the album is a spiritual collapse (even if it's not blatantly stated in the lyrics)?

> i knew several people who were put off from buying the album because of the extent of his talking about religion. I felt that the religion aspect overshadowed the music, when it should be the other way round.

Well, for one thing, YOU were the one who raised it in this thread. You wrote: "but i would prefer it if we stuck to talking about the music." yet you brought the subject up and for another Alice spoke about his faith far more in interviews for "The Last Temptation" and that was a bigger album than "Brutal Planet" was. Are you sure you haven't got the two albums mixed - up or something?

>You get far too upset over things.

Who said I was "upset"?

>Just try and relax a bit

"Just try and" mind your own business.

>, I don’t know when you were promoted to personal defender of all things Alice but i bet it was an achievement of a lifetime huh?

How original.

>So sorry someone with an opinion other than yours dares post anything,

No need to be "sorry"; just don't freak out when you're disagreed with.

>i didnt realise it was only a message board for people who agreed with you wholesale.

It isn't but the irony is, you're the one who seems to not like being disagreed with.

>Because obviously your opinion = fact.

Well, generally, it is actually based on "fact", especially in relation to your comments.

>Wont bother posting again.

Another person who doesn't have the courage of his convictions.

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by A_MichaelUK » Fri May 30, 2014 10:22 am

>why--would any athiest or person who has a problem with Christianity then complain about that that artist is preaching Christianity? It makes no sense to me.

It isn't even that - I would maintain that, with very few exceptions, Alice doesn't actually preach.

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by A_MichaelUK » Fri May 30, 2014 10:23 am

> Much more so then any drugs he has, or hasn't, taken, or how the band met Shep Gordon, or so many other subjects that so many seems to want definitive statements about.

That is a pretty good point,actually.

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by obsession77 » Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:56 am

Biggest disappointed:

"The Last Temptation" album - I was expecting something in the vein of "Hey Stoopid" but Grunge had taken over now...

From then on - it all went down. One disappointment right after the other.

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by patrick » Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:27 am

pity you feel that way.
especially TLT has it strong moments ( Nothing's free standing out to me), al be it that the finale of the cd is somewhat "forced" imo..
even TEOC and certainly WTMNM2 have some songs that sound fresh and above all, Alice sounds enthousiastic, still strong voiced..
(ACAS I agree: couldn' meet the high expectations.)
but then again, that"s what a thread like this is all about : "your" personal approach to this..
you really wouldn't understand..

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by obsession77 » Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:07 pm

It's kind of strange. When Alice was on top of the game, he made the music that was "fresh" at the time.

In the 70's, it was pure rock -
in the late 70's, it was also rock with a more radio-friendly approach,
then came the new wave/punk'ish/synth rock era in the early 80's,
in the mid-80's it was hard rock again,
in the late 80's and early 90's it was AOR/radio-friendly rock,
in the mid-90's it also feature grunge/indie elements,
in the late-90's, early 2000's, it was almost Marilyn Manson'esque (Brutal Planet/Dragontown)

BUT: from then on, it's became the same:
It's late 60's/early 70's garage rock style... :(
And the album that he announced will be a cover album with tracks from the 60's and early 70's... :( :( :(

If Alice likes retro, I hope he will someday do 80's retro. :)

BTW, this was my idea of how the next album after "Hey Stoopid" album could have been... It's is a preview of the demo version of my tribute to ALICE COOPER and his 80's hard rock period mixed with a twist of the dramatic style and horror from the 70's. Another song I had written for that fictitious album was "Men can Bleed". Enjoy!

http://youtu.be/ngtigkIqtaE

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by A_MichaelUK » Sun Jun 01, 2014 5:09 pm

I was expecting something in the vein of "Hey Stoopid" but Grunge had taken over now...

If you're saying "The Last Temptation" is a "Grunge" album, that (despite the presence of Andy Wallace, Don Fleming and Chris Cornell) is something of an exaggeration.

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by obsession77 » Sun Jun 01, 2014 5:57 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:If you're saying "The Last Temptation" is a "Grunge" album, that (despite the presence of Andy Wallace, Don Fleming and Chris Cornell) is something of an exaggeration.
Not saying that it's a grunge album but it's clearly audible that there are influences of the Seattle/Alternative scene (and due to the personnel mentioned above involved). The intro of "Unholy War" is a prime example for that. When I heard "Lost in America" as a preview of the album on MTV Europe's Headbanger's Ball, I was waiting and waiting for the "real" chorus - that unfortunately never came.

I do like "Nothing's Free" and "Bad Place Alone" (and the chorus of "You're my temptation") but after Constrictor (which made me become a fan in 1986 plus seeing "The Nightmare returns" concert and buying all of the back catalogue), RYFAY, Trash, and Hey Stoopid I had the absolute false expectations of what kind of album is coming.

mr.barlow

Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by mr.barlow » Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:24 pm

obsession77 wrote:
A_MichaelUK wrote:If you're saying "The Last Temptation" is a "Grunge" album, that (despite the presence of Andy Wallace, Don Fleming and Chris Cornell) is something of an exaggeration.
Not saying that it's a grunge album but it's clearly audible that there are influences of the Seattle/Alternative scene (and due to the personnel mentioned above involved). The intro of "Unholy War" is a prime example for that. When I heard "Lost in America" as a preview of the album on MTV Europe's Headbanger's Ball, I was waiting and waiting for the "real" chorus - that unfortunately never came.

I do like "Nothing's Free" and "Bad Place Alone" (and the chorus of "You're my temptation") but after Constrictor (which made me become a fan in 1986 plus seeing "The Nightmare returns" concert and buying all of the back catalogue), RYFAY, Trash, and Hey Stoopid I had the absolute false expectations of what kind of album is coming.
What I find interesting is that this is a great example how Alice continued to gain new fans throughout his career. There is much talk of how Alice lost fan base after the break up of the original band and with albums such as Lace & Whiskey, the 80s albums etc but here is a perfect example how he built a new fan base with the "hair metal" releases. He gained a whole new generation of fans with those albums--mainly Trash. These fans love those albums and that era. I became a fan with Special Forces in 1981 and that is my favorite Alice era. I hate the Trash album but there a countless fans who love it. Alice always changed with the music trends and that's why he has enjoed longevity.

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by A_MichaelUK » Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:15 am

> The intro of "Unholy War" is a prime example for that. When I heard "Lost in America" as a preview of the album on MTV Europe's Headbanger's Ball, I was waiting and waiting for the "real" chorus that unfortunately never came.

Those are just two songs though. I don't see how they define the whole album.

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by obsession77 » Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:16 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:> The intro of "Unholy War" is a prime example for that. When I heard "Lost in America" as a preview of the album on MTV Europe's Headbanger's Ball, I was waiting and waiting for the "real" chorus that unfortunately never came.

Those are just two songs though. I don't see how they define the whole album.
Ah, come on... Then there's "Stolen Prayer" which could also be a Soundgarden song.
What I wanted to say is that there is a grunge/alternative influence all over the album and no one can deny that despite commercial and radio-friendly tracks such as "It's me", most of the tracks are not as harmonic as the songs on the albums before.

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by A_MichaelUK » Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:32 pm

Ah, come on... Then there's "Stolen Prayer" which could also be a Soundgarden song.

Well, that is now three out of ten songs which is still a low number and just because it sounds like Soundgarden doesn't make it a "Grunge" song when you consider how much of a seventies influence there was in it. I think a lot of these labels are used in a lazy way.

>What I wanted to say is that there is a grunge/alternative influence all over the album

I completely disagree. To say it is "all over" is an exaggeration.

>most of the tracks are not as harmonic as the songs on the albums before.

That is a very odd statement.

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by obsession77 » Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:24 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:I think a lot of these labels are used in a lazy way.
That's what you think - I consider my description to be appropriate.
If someone who has heard "Trash" & "Hey Stoopid" would ask me, how TLT sounds,
I'll tell him exactly what I've written above. And I sure that would be helpful for that person to get an idea of the album's sound.

Constrictor: Melodic Hard Rock
RYFAY: Light Metal / Heavy Rock
Trash: Catchy, Melodic Rock / AOR
Hey Stoopid: Catchy, Melodic Hard Rock
The last Temptation: Melodic Rock with light grunge/alternative elements

So, if you find my labels lazy - I'm eagerly expecting yours...

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