New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Anything Alice Cooper or AC band related goes here

Moderators: Devon, Gorehound, Si, SickThings, Shoesalesman

User avatar
Gunner
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 1155
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:16 pm

Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by Gunner » Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:44 pm

cherrypie wrote:This made me cringe - and I know we've already mentioned this but I find this paragraph laughable: '....Calico would have a brother, named Damien from his fathers middle name - and also because that particular name had only one connotation in the mid eighties, the demonic hero of the ongoing movie series The Omen. What better name could there be for the son of Alice Cooper?' :rotfl: :rotfl:

Wow! That IS bad - really bad. One name mistake is one thing but then to elaborate on it in detail shows almost contempt for research!!??

I think we should all get together here and compile a definative list of all the errors, and send it to the publishers!! I think it's atrocious.

User avatar
cherrypie
Spacebrain Vagabond
Spacebrain Vagabond
Posts: 2304
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:38 pm
Location: The Cotswolds
Contact:

Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by cherrypie » Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:23 pm

Lol, here's a couple more;

'The mysteriously titled Formerly Lee Warmer....'

Alice; 'The first review I read of Brutal PLanet called it "a tragic waste of plastic"....(That was Pretties For You, I believe)

:nono: :nono:
I hate Opera, I hate Oprah
http://www.fountainlife.blogspot.com

User avatar
Gunner
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 1155
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:16 pm

Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by Gunner » Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:17 pm

It's beyond a joke now.

:nono: ::((: :smack:

The Professor
Trash
Trash
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:10 pm

Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by The Professor » Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:54 pm

I wanted my first posting here to be positive - I just finished the book and apart from that one major mistake (and it is major) I really enjoyed it and learned a lot, so maybe we could start a new thread talking about the book's good points?

But I have to point out Fashion, you're the one who's wrong... and the research was easy, I just googled "Brutal Planet" and "waste of plastic" and this is what I found. see http://www.soundspike.com/story2/1189/- ... ce-cooper/

SoundSpike: Has there been any critical response yet to the new album?

Alice Cooper: The first review I read of "Brutal Planet" called it "a tragic waste of plastic." I have to laugh because 30 years ago, most of the press were saying, "They'll last about three minutes," and here we are 24 albums later, still doing it.

Plus neither Alice or Michael Bruce's books were exactly error free and I dont see you hammering them

User avatar
While Heaven Wept
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 1363
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 6:20 pm
Location: UK

Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by While Heaven Wept » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:35 pm

Devon wrote:I'm from Indiana therefore I do not read.
Hahaha!

User avatar
cherrypie
Spacebrain Vagabond
Spacebrain Vagabond
Posts: 2304
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:38 pm
Location: The Cotswolds
Contact:

Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by cherrypie » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:46 pm

But I have to point out Fashion, you're the one who's wrong... and the research was easy, I just googled "Brutal Planet" and "waste of plastic"
Did you mean me?? I'm cherrypie, alias Penny :p Last time I met Alice, he was looking thru my scrapbook and when he got to a pic of Pretties for You, he told me about the reviewer saying the plastic thing. So I guess it's one of those things he says when he thinks it's appropriate. :)

Never read Alice's or Michael's books - anyone care to lend me one??
so maybe we could start a new thread talking about the book's good points?
ok. You start.
I hate Opera, I hate Oprah
http://www.fountainlife.blogspot.com

A_MichaelUK
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 5383
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:35 pm

Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by A_MichaelUK » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:11 pm

>I wanted my first posting here to be positive

I wouldn't worry about that kind of thing.

> - I just finished the book and apart from that one major mistake

You think that's the only "major mistake"? Have you read any of the other posts in this thread?

> I really enjoyed it and learned a lot, so maybe we could start a new thread talking about the book's good points?

Tell us what they are.

>But I have to point out Fashion, you're the one who's wrong... and the research was easy, I just googled "Brutal Planet" and "waste of plastic" and this is what I found. see http://www.soundspike.com/story2/1189/- ... ce-cooper/

That doesn't mean Alice got it right, though. He used to say that it was Lester Bangs who used that phrase to describe "Pretties For You", so it's a question of which source you believe.

>Plus neither Alice or Michael Bruce's books were exactly error free and I dont see you hammering them

Those aren't good comparisons at all. For one thing, at least one of those has been 'hammered' or at least strongly questioned in previous discussions (take a look) not only here but on the original Sick Things list. I think you'll find most people are a lot more fair - minded than you think. Also, the reason it isn't a good comparison is that although the chronology isn't totally accurate in "Golf Monster", I don't recall their being any mistakes on the level of getting the date Alice gave up drinking wrong as there is in Dave Thompson's effort (especially as it has only been mentioned about a hundred million times over the years) and also, another reason why you're not making a fair comparison is that "Me, Alice" and "No More Mr. Nice Guy" wer put together by people who were, let's say, 'impaired' and I would hope that when Dave Thompson did his research, he was not.

The Professor
Trash
Trash
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:10 pm

Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by The Professor » Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:47 pm

First - thank you to everyone for the welcome, and secondly, apologies to Cherrypie! I just worked out how the names and ranks are laid out :nono:

Re the waste of plastic... and this also applies to another posting about songwriting on Nightmare 2. The author was directly quoting Alice. Maybe he or his editor should have pointed out that Alice was factually wrong on one and probably wrong on the other. Or maybe not. It's a judgement call, as are a few more of the "errors" pointed out in postings - Mike or Mick Mashbir, the T Rex business, the chicken and rabbit debates, but I will say on that one, I never got the impression the author said either was "true", just that they were a part of Alice's legend, which is what the introduction said the book was about. In fact, given the nature of the errors, I thought it was funny that Thompson admitted up front that he didn't have any interest in Alice's personal life. It shows, lol.

I was asked to start a conversation about the book's good points.

Compared to other Alice biogs, including Golf Monster, Me Alice and Bruce, the chronology was clear, concise, accurate and I think error free - at least I never saw any, and nobody else has mentioned them. The author's interpretations and opinions are not always agreeable, but that's all they are, interpretations and opinions.

I loved the coverage of the Schools Out and BDB periods, especially the controversies. The early days were very well detailed and explained as well.

The Billion Dollar Babies band project doesn't interest me, but its beginnings, and the whole break up of the original band was very informative and told me a lot I didn't know.

I really enjoyed the Special Forces - Dada chapters, never having read anything as in depth about the albums and the tours. (It helps that I really like those albums too).

And the concert description towards the end of the book made me jump onto Amazon and order up some of the later DVDs because now I need to see them.

Those are a few of the book's highlights for me; and I'd love to hear about other people's. And please don't say "there weren't any" :rock:

The Professor
Trash
Trash
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:10 pm

Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by The Professor » Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:47 pm

First - thank you to everyone for the welcome, and secondly, apologies to Cherrypie! I just worked out how the names and ranks are laid out :nono:

Re the waste of plastic... and this also applies to another posting about songwriting on Nightmare 2. The author was directly quoting Alice. Maybe he or his editor should have pointed out that Alice was factually wrong on one and probably wrong on the other. Or maybe not. It's a judgement call, as are a few more of the "errors" pointed out in postings - Mike or Mick Mashbir, the T Rex business, the chicken and rabbit debates, but I will say on that one, I never got the impression the author said either was "true", just that they were a part of Alice's legend, which is what the introduction said the book was about. In fact, given the nature of the errors, I thought it was funny that Thompson admitted up front that he didn't have any interest in Alice's personal life. It shows, lol.

I was asked to start a conversation about the book's good points.

Compared to other Alice biogs, including Golf Monster, Me Alice and Bruce, the chronology was clear, concise, accurate and I think error free - at least I never saw any, and nobody else has mentioned them. The author's interpretations and opinions are not always agreeable, but that's all they are, interpretations and opinions.

I loved the coverage of the Schools Out and BDB periods, especially the controversies. The early days were very well detailed and explained as well.

The Billion Dollar Babies band project doesn't interest me, but its beginnings, and the whole break up of the original band was very informative and told me a lot I didn't know.

I really enjoyed the Special Forces - Dada chapters, never having read anything as in depth about the albums and the tours. (It helps that I really like those albums too).

And the concert description towards the end of the book made me jump onto Amazon and order up some of the later DVDs because now I need to see them.

Those are a few of the book's highlights for me; and I'd love to hear about other people's. And please don't say "there weren't any" :rock:

User avatar
sickthing
Humanary Stew
Humanary Stew
Posts: 60
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:29 am
Location: Malta

Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by sickthing » Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:08 pm

Re the waste of plastic... and this also applies to another posting about songwriting on Nightmare 2. The author was directly quoting Alice. Maybe he or his editor should have pointed out that Alice was factually wrong on one and probably wrong on the other. Or maybe not.




In all the interviews I have seen and read with Alice about Nightmare 2, he always attributed Runaway Train to Dennis and When Hell Comes Home to Michael Bruce.

Errors such as getting the son's name wrong, and on top of that, coming up with the Omen theory, are just simply indicative of very poor research. Not what one would expect from 'the Ultimate Alice Cooper biography'.

A_MichaelUK
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 5383
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:35 pm

Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by A_MichaelUK » Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:26 pm

> The author was directly quoting Alice. Maybe he or his editor should have pointed out that Alice was factually wrong on one and probably wrong on the other.

It would have made more sense not to have referred to it all in relation to "Brutal Planet" - it's quite simple.

>I thought it was funny that Thompson admitted up front that he didn't have any interest in Alice's personal life. It shows, lol.

That is fair enough and as I may have said, he's an experienced and knowledgeable writer (he wrote an especially good book about Perry Farrell which had a section on Alice in it and I think he interviewed all the surviving band members in 2001 for "Goldmine") but that only makes these mistakes less easy to forgive.

The Professor
Trash
Trash
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:10 pm

Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by The Professor » Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:36 pm

[quote="A_MichaelUK"]>
It would have made more sense not to have referred to it all in relation to "Brutal Planet" - it's quite simple.

Or for Alice not to have said it in the first place :) But there's also a certain humour to be derived from an artist recycling his own bad reviews!

I read Thompson's Glam book and that also had a fair amount of Alice in it, which I enjoyed a lot. In fact going back into that book, I also understand his comment about T Rex, that was remarked upon earlier.

Just remembered another part of the Alice book that made me laugh (in a good way) - Glen's song about the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame !!! :)

A_MichaelUK
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 5383
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:35 pm

Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by A_MichaelUK » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:04 pm

>Or for Alice not to have said it in the first place

No, I think deeper research is better.

The Professor
Trash
Trash
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:10 pm

Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by The Professor » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:55 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:>Or for Alice not to have said it in the first place

No, I think deeper research is better.
this is getting interesting!

... the Brutal Planet "waste of plastic" quote dates from 2000; the only printed reference to Pretties being described the same way that I've been able to find was from this interview in 2011, http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2011/ ... r-musician -

Has anybody seen the original Pretties review that Alice is referencing? Or an earlier (pre-2000) interview in which he makes the same claim? Otherwise, if all we are going by are Alice's own quotes, it looks like Thompson got it right.

NotSoPerfect
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 1975
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:49 am
Location: United States

Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by NotSoPerfect » Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:04 pm

Well, there's always the book, "Where are you now, Bo Diddley?"...published in 1986, with that quote in it, in reference to Pretties for You.

http://books.google.com/books?id=5-OjW6 ... 22&f=false

Very first hit on Google when you search for:

"pretties for you" "tragic waste of plastic"
Schooooooooooooool's Ouuuuuuuuuuuuut. FOR. EVER!

The Professor
Trash
Trash
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:10 pm

Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by The Professor » Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:11 pm

point taken.

But... I'd still like to see the original review, or an earlier direct quote from Alice. Right now, we have a confirmed Alice quote about one album, recycling what seems to be an apocryphal review for another.

Especially as Neal, also in 2000, said it was "Easy Action" that was described as a waste of plastic... http://www.alicecooperechive.com/articl ... art=000519

Another judgement call, I think...
Last edited by The Professor on Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
SickThings
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 875
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:04 pm
Location: Elizabethtown, KY
Contact:

Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by SickThings » Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:13 pm

The Professor wrote:I wanted my first posting here to be positive - I just finished the book and apart from that one major mistake (and it is major) I really enjoyed it and learned a lot,
But is what you learned accurate?? That's kind of the whole point of this thread. When so much is wrong, how can you trust that anything you didn't already know is correct?

Oh, and I'll publicly state (again) that Michael Bruce's book isn't worth reading. Me, Alice is worth reading, just because so much of it is so over the top that it's entertaining, which is more than could be said for the Bruce book, IMO.

Hunter

GNDM

Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by GNDM » Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:18 pm

Sorry if this has been dealt with.....

Is there a part in this book that mentions a 'bass' solo by Glen Buxton....or was that from some other publication/story?

The Professor
Trash
Trash
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:10 pm

Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by The Professor » Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:29 pm

Hunter - well that is always the question, isn't it. But the flip of that is, how do we know that what we already believe to be correct is the true story?

When a story comes from somebody who was there at the time, I tend to believe it - or at least, believe that is how they see/remember it. That's why Golf Monster was such a great read. But was it necessarily accurate?

A case in point - the ongoing discussion about the origin of the "waste of plastic" quote. So far, we have:
1986 - an unattributed quote relating to Pretties For You in Where Are You Bo Diddley
2000 - Alice stating it about Brutal Planet
2000 - Neal claiming it was a review of Easy Action
2011 - Alice repeating the Pretties story

Thompson's book used the first attributed Alice quote. Maybe he slipped up by not adding something to the effect of "a description that apocryphally was also applied to Pretties For Ypu, and would later be appended to Easy Action too: - but my point is, which quote is the most accurate?

And if you were looking for a succinct Alice quote that captured the early critical response to Brutal Planet, should that one be discarded because it was recycled?

In other words, where does accuracy end and nit-picking begin?

The Professor
Trash
Trash
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:10 pm

Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by The Professor » Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:42 pm

GNDM wrote:Sorry if this has been dealt with.....

Is there a part in this book that mentions a 'bass' solo by Glen Buxton....or was that from some other publication/story?
I think the post was about a recent concert review in some other publication

Post Reply