I never gave Shep enough credit.....

[Toronto Bob]

In previous posts I have said that I didn’t think Shep was a very good manager after all. I thought he was short-sited and losing control of the old catalogue was proof enough that he wasn’t all that. But I was only seeing it from a “what’s best for the band, the musical legacy and the fans POV”. I never really considered that perhaps he had other priorities and the group and the music they created was merely a means to an end. Reading a Dunnaway interview on line, I think this DD quote really says it all…..


A - Well, everything is hype. I don't know why you keep quoting Bob Greene' book. I think he's a great writer, but that book was total entertainment. What Bob did, because it makes interesting reading, is he took everything positive that was going on and eliminated it and took everything negative and magnified it and that's exactly what that book is. All it is, is we're gonna make it look like there's all kinds of problems going on because that's more interesting to read. He's a good writer. I like the book and I like him a lot as a writer, but that book is so annoying because people take it as gospel. It has very little truth in it. It was basically just designed to make the band look bad so that people wouldn't blame Alice for taking the ball and running with it. OK? He makes Shep sound like a genius because Shep's the one who hired him to serve that purpose. But it worked. It worked on you. It worked on a lot of people.

http://www.classicbands.com/DennisDunawayInterview.html


It makes me think that Shep engineered the break-up all along. Going into the studio too soon after BDB and without Ezrin, going on tour and having that book written, seems like an obvious recipe for disaster but a perfect way to blow things up – if that is your want.

I can imagine from a managers POV, it’s a lot easier to manage/plan things with one artist than a committee of 4 or 5. As well, the slice of pie is a heck of a lot bigger.

So the rush into the studio after the grueling BDB album and tour, the book and then releasing a monster album like WTMN as your first “solo” album is the perfect storm for convincing your artist that you really don’t want or need a reunion. It really isn’t difficult to understand why talk of the break-up would be verboten.

I never gave Shep enough credit – the man is perversely brilliant.


What say you?

[scotty]

I think the fact that Alice has stayed with him for over 40 years about says it all. You have to remember,this is a guy,maybe the only one at that time who would take a chance on 5 guys who were very raw musically,and very strange with their looks and built them up to the heights of B$B,through the nightmare show and eventually back up (after a lull to say the least) in the '80's.
He's also stuck with his friend/client through the tough times career and health wise. I don't think either would do much differently at all. A guy like shep might get taken for granted sometimes,but deserves all the credit in the world,IMHO.

[Gunner]

I think the fact that Shep is still Alice's manager and is completely trusted by Alice to do anything - even manage his money for him does say a lot, yes. I think Shep was only really interested in developing the Alice Cooper concept with Cooper once it was clear that Cooper was the main focal point. And yes, it's much easy to focus on one guy than 5 artistic individuals with different ideas, moods, temperaments etc. I do think he tried with the band though to a large degree, and then after a while thought 'Alice, you don't really need them!'. It could be said however, that the music was never quite as good, the band was the 'Alice Cooper sound' wasn't it?

[dadascot]

Oh you have opened a can of worms. I can see this thread going on for a while (lucky for you Andy hasn't seen it yet) Shep, it seems to me, saw this raw band, took a big chance on them, built them up to be, arguably, the biggest band on the world. But, as is raging on another thread here, he will have seen what was going on backstage. He would have seen that it was Alice that was getting up early to do the interviews, Alice was the focus, they were already bringing in outside musicians. We will never know but if the band had continued for another few years they might just have fizzled out and we wouldn't have had the last thirty years! Maybe Shep IS a genius in that he saw the writing on the wall long before anyone else did.

[A_MichaelUK]

> But I was only seeing it from a “what’s best for the band, the musical legacy and the fans POV”.

That is correct, as if only you know "what's best for the band", especially as you were not a member of it. Your comment about "the fans" perspective is has some validity as you are one, but again, no - one voted for you as some kind of representative.

>It makes me think that Shep engineered the break-up all along.

Obviously you were being ironic or sarcastic in the title of this thread.

>Going into the studio too soon after BDB and without Ezrin,

How was that Shep's fault?

> going on tour

Yes. That was a mistake.

>and having that book written,

How is that Shep's fault? Is it Shep's fault that Bob Greene took a lot of stuff out of context?

>I can imagine from a managers POV, it’s a lot easier to manage/plan things with one artist than a committee of 4 or 5.

Forget the "managers POV", "it's a lot easier" for the "artist" as well. Did you ever think about that?

>As well, the slice of pie is a heck of a lot bigger.

No. As I already explained, the arithmetic does not support that.

>So the rush into the studio after the grueling BDB album and tour, the book and then releasing a monster album like WTMN as your first “solo” album is the perfect storm for convincing your artist that you really don’t want or need a reunion. It really isn’t difficult to understand why talk of the break-up would be verboten.

Only if you believe in conspiracy theories.

>What say you?

I "say" this is just a rehash of previous threads.

[A_MichaelUK]

>He's also stuck with his friend/client through the tough times career and health wise.

Good point. If Shep only cared about the money, why did he keep Alice within his management when Alice's career was in decline? Why would he want one of the world's biggest bands to break up if that was all he cared about?

[A_MichaelUK]

> I think Shep was only really interested in developing the Alice Cooper concept with Cooper once it was clear that Cooper was the main focal point.

Of the six people involved (seven if you include Bob Ezrin), there were three people who thought alike, three others who thought alike but in a different way and one who let's say was 'too precoccupied with other things' to be interested. A fair - minded person would be able to work out who is who and draw appropriate conclusions from that.

>And yes, it's much easy to focus on one guy than 5 artistic individuals with different ideas, moods, temperaments etc.

Exactly. Finally, someone gets there without having to resort to conspiracy theories.

>I do think he tried with the band though to a large degree, and then after a while thought 'Alice, you don't really need them!'.

I think that was as much Alice's decision because the whole situation with the film, Alice's personal stardom, the Bob Greene book, the situation with Glen, the way Ezrin quit and other factors which none of us will ever get to know about, meant there was just too much aggravation. Why would Alice want to deal with any of that when he could work with people who thought the same way that he did? The problem is, it's far easier for certain people to rely on conspiracy theories because they support whatever agenda these people have instead of thinking about it a rational way and yes, I know there were personal interests involved and yes, I know there were outside influences as well. Someone should name me one successful band where those influences did not exist.

>It could be said however, that the music was never quite as good, the band was the 'Alice Cooper sound' wasn't it?

Again, that's a valid point.

[A_MichaelUK]

>We will never know but if the band had continued for another few years they might just have fizzled out

Exactly.

>Maybe Shep IS a genius in that he saw the writing on the wall long before anyone else did.

I agree. It's just that some people want to think that this was the result of some kind of sinister motive.

[Gunner]

Hmmm, Shep suggested that the band were right at the top when they broke up, were about to 'take over the world', so I'm not so sure about the 'writing on the wall' theory.

[A_MichaelUK]

>so I'm not so sure about the 'writing on the wall' theory.

He's referring to the 'division', not how succesful the band were.

[recoop]

A lot of interesting stuff in these posts even though a bit of a rehash of older stuff..some observations..I doubt if Shep thought the band were on top when they quit given the sales of MOL and tensions within band.. agree the original band sound lost-a real pity IMO-would have been great even if Mike Bruce could have kept writing with Alice(probably a big can of worms there)..Next, Alice is an individual who has a right to move on, change etc-its not his fault that no one challenged his use of the name legally (although it might seem strange)..After release of MOL Alice may well have thought his hired hands(some of whom had worked with the group anyway) could produce the goods in a new direction..I think Mike Bruce wrote in his book that he had sort of held back on the writing for MOL-maybe Alice thought Mike's writing skills were on the wane (if he did maybe he was right as Mike hasnt produced tons of stuff up to the 71-73 quality-I am a fan of Mike's work by the way)..And as has been said Glen had problems..this whole issue is so multi layered that it is difficult for me to see Shep as some Dr Evil(Austin Powers) character pulling all the strings..I'm sure he looked after Alice though.

[A_MichaelUK]

>I doubt if Shep thought the band were on top when they quit given the sales of MOL and tensions within band..

There’s no doubt that he was disappointed in how it sold (and don’t forget how surprised I was when you revealed how badly it sold), but this was still one of the biggest bands in the world at that time and there was no reason why that status couldn’t continue despite what happened with “Muscle Of Love”.

> the original band sound lost-

I wouldn’t go that far, but you can kind of tell it is missing Bob Ezrin’s influence.

>have been great even if Mike Bruce could have kept writing with Alice

>That’s another misconception. They rarely ever did that.

>Next, Alice is an individual who has a right to move on,

Exactly.

> this whole issue is so multi layered that it is difficult for me to see Shep as some Dr Evil(Austin Powers) character pulling all the strings..

Exactly, but some people prefer to rely on conspiracy theories because it’s the easy thing to do.

[Gunner]

Exactly, but some people prefer to rely on conspiracy theories because it’s the easy thing to do.

I don't think that is the reason at all, it's just as easy to believe any theory, whether of a conspirital nature or not. I think people are generally cynical when it comes to businessmen that's all - and who can blame them where the human creature is concerned!?

[Gunner]

>That’s another misconception. They rarely ever did that.

You BELIEVE that they rarely did that.

[Gunner]

>so I'm not so sure about the 'writing on the wall' theory.

He's referring to the 'division', not how succesful the band were.

Yes, point taken.

[recoop]

I should clarify that my comment re bands sound being lost related to once Alice went solo(after MOL)-trying to be concise led to loss of clarity in my post. I take the point that the band could have remained on top despite MOL's sales performance.

And re Gunners point..I agree people are cynical about businessmen especially in a creative process..on the flip side artists including Alice enjoy the money earned..I have past experience as a business manager involved with creative academics(it was like trying to herd cats! hah)

[A_MichaelUK]

>I think people are generally cynical when it comes to businessmen that's all

Why be "cynical" unless you have to be though?

[A_MichaelUK]

>You BELIEVE that they rarely did that.

I "BELIEVE" what both Michael and Alice told me, in case you have a problem with that. They were not a song - writing duo in the way that, for example, John Lennon and Paul McCartney were.

[recoop]

I think the original post talked of questioning Shep's abilties as a manager-however given that from memory he has managed many acts, succeeded in film production and had some success in the supercook stakes I reckon his business acumen is unquestionable..losing the rights or whatever to some material I'm not sure can on its own justify doubts over his abilities..Shep generally succeeds..If you put yourself in good positions enough some times you will win and some times it goes against you(bad paraphrasing of a Jack Nicklaus golf quote)..applies to golf and business.

[mestreech]

what rights did he loose?