Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

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A_MichaelUK
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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by A_MichaelUK » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:06 am

>I don't think it would satisfy anyone - even if tommystooge "revealed his sources".

Do you mean in the same way that you and others were not satisfied when I cited my "sources" during discussions on other threads?!

>It would be interesting to hear them all, compare and contrast.

But you HAVE heard "them all". All the surviving members of the band have discussed this issue in their own various interviews and given their own perspectives.

>As for me, I'm only so interestd in going over that ground again.

Why did you raise it at the other thread then?

> I would just be content to see some amicable resolution

How are your conspiracy theories going to facilitate that and and besides who says there is no "amicable resolution"? Have you not been following events since 1998 or so?!

>and have the band record new material and do a tour.

You've had five opportunites to see the band since 1998 and I know that's not a lot but it's more than most people thought would ever happen. Also, I'm simply astonished that at EXACTLY the time when things are going so well, you, as someone who claims to be a supporter of the original band, wants to keep bringing up old divisions and then you have the audacity to write that you "would just be content to see some amicable resolution"!

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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by Gunner » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:08 am

..To help you out; An opinion is a subjective belief, and is the result of emotion or interpretation of facts. Validity doesn't apply in this case. Choose your words more carefully - this is one reason why there is so much bickering, people are not expressing themselves correctly. If you need an example, it's like saying that me liking a song is more valid than you liking one!!! It sounds arrogant and very silly doesn't it?

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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by A_MichaelUK » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:12 am

>Well...with people like tommystooge lurking, we need posters to step up and question rumors/gossip/half-truths.

That's exactly why after something like ten years of reading posts full of nonsense, I finally decided to join a forum and start posting, especially as even Brian Nelson (of all people) couldn't, or no longer wanted to, deal with doing so.
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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by A_MichaelUK » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:15 am

>(this is a band that can cannot mention Alice as an influence remember!!)

I don’t know what this means.

>Do you think Dali would be interested in their party time rock and roll for example?

RemarkablyInsincere was quoting a member of the band in question. He didn’t invent that quote.

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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by A_MichaelUK » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:26 am

>You know, I've been following this thread and up to now just getting a bit humpty about the back and forth bickering,

If it bothers you that much and if you’re really that delicate, there’s probably a Quaker forum that you can join.

>I have learnt that everyone involved has their own perspective on what happened and are 100% convinced that they are right and everyone else is wrong.

Exactly. The key word here is “perspective”.

> The truth, is always somewhere inbetween.

Exactly. I really hope Tommystooge and Toronto Bob are reading this.

>Add into the mix a thirty year gap and the waters are probably too muddy.

Exactly.

> BUT in those 30 years only really Alice had a platform to express his take on it cos he was the one that went on and grabbed a career and he was the one getting interviewed.

Don’t forget though that since 1996, the other band members have had their opportunities to put across their views as well, but I would agree that Alice’s views are expressed in front of a larger audience, though.

>not getting to voice your opinion!

They have been, though.

>We know that MB went through a period when he was bitter.

That’s all in the past which is why I don’t understand why Tommystooge or Toronto Bob want to rehash it.

>I am not saying Alice was wrong. He was asked his opinion and he gave what he believed to be the truth.

Exactly.

>since then the band has re-united, age will have mellowed some, and it is in no-one's interest to stoke it up again

Exactly.

>but there may well be something simmering below.

I’m sure there is. My question is why would Tommy Stooge and Toronto Bob want to keep rehashing it? I already explained that the box set was not meant to be a definitive history.

> Should he have mentioned it in the first place? Well I'm not sure,

Exactly.

> a confidence is a confidence.

Exactly.

> But some of the people here demanding that stooge reveal his sources constantly post their opinions as FACTS and as if they are Alice's confidant without revealing their sources. I do get a feeling of double standards going on here.

That's absolutely false (and you were doing so well).
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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by A_MichaelUK » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:27 am

>I don't see why as it states that 'some opinions are more valid than others' - how does that work exactly????

The "opinons" that "are more valid" tend to be the ones that at least attempt to provide some evidence.

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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by A_MichaelUK » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:29 am

>An opinion is a subjective belief, and is the result of emotion or interpretation of facts. Validity doesn't apply in this case.

There were you doing so well (at the other thread).

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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by ThePainAddict » Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:43 am

"I don't see why as it states that 'some opinions are more valid than others' - how does that work exactly????"

In almost any situations where there is a variety of opinions some will have more validity than others. Maybe because the opinion is based on greater research, or a stronger basis in known truth(s), or because the opinion better thought out, or a host of various other factors.

I didn't state that a particular poster here had an opinion that was more valid. Although, undoubtedly that is true, if even by chance someone's view is closer to the truth.

My post was also not an attack on Tommy, or anybody else. Just some perspective.

While I would still like to hear all of the particulars discuss the break up, I still do not believe it would lead to much greater clarity.

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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by tommystooge » Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:30 am

A_MichaelUK wrote:>I did the same research you did...

Really? I didn't see you there when I was doing it.
AND I didn't see you there when I was doing it... :p
Remember The Coop !!

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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by tommystooge » Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:52 am

dadascot wrote:You know, I've been following this thread and up to now just getting a bit humpty about the back and forth bickering, but, I actually think that Mr. Stooge might have a point. Now before everyone has a fit let me explain. Having been involved in many break-ups I have learnt that everyone involved has their own perspective on what happened and are 100% convinced that they are right and everyone else is wrong. The truth, is always somewhere inbetween. Add into the mix a thirty year gap and the waters are probably too muddy. BUT in those 30 years only really Alice had a platform to express his take on it cos he was the one that went on and grabbed a career and he was the one getting interviewed. Imagine if you were the one left behind not getting to voice your opinion! We know that MB went through a period when he was bitter. I am not saying Alice was wrong. He was asked his opinion and he gave what he believed to be the truth. since then the band has re-united, age will have mellowed some, and it is in no-one's interest to stoke it up again but there may well be something simmering below. Now IF someone involved told HIS version of events to stooge, and told him not to name him to keep the harmony in place then stooge is right not to name him. Should he have mentioned it in the first place? Well I'm not sure, in one sense I would like to hear more about it on the other hand a confidence is a confidence. But some of the people here demanding that stooge reveal his sources constantly post their opinions as FACTS and as if they are Alice's confidant without revealing their sources. I do get a feeling of double standards going on here.
Thank You...that is exactly how I feel, there is a double standard...please read my original post...I was challenging the information we were told that there wasn't enough time to discuss the break up with the others...I had the opportunity to discuss this with people who were there and was told differently...but of course this goes against others opinions on this forum so I'm not credible and even if I did name my sources, like Toronto Bob says, it would be on cuz it doesn't fit into what others here want to believe...I just want the facts not the BS fed from the Alice organization...I keep hearing, especially from Andy, the others have spoken about the break up elsewhere,- EXCEPT the one place it would have made the most sense to do so, ON A DVD FOR A BOXSET THAT COVERS THEIR ENTIRE CARRER TOGETHER !!!!!

HELLO....
Remember The Coop !!

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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by Billie1966 » Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:43 am

And I say IT'S NONE OF ANY ONE'S BUSINESS EXCEPT THEIRS! It reminds me of the guy's that asked for Alice's vest after he was through with the tour on his FB page.. Some folks have no filter.. What gives us the right to get involved in the personal going's on???

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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by A_MichaelUK » Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:13 am

> or because the opinion better thought out, or a host of various other factors.

Also, it helps not to have entrenched preconceptions and that applies just as much to those people who accept Alice's side of the story as much as it does to Tommy Stooge and Toronto Bob for example. The two gentlemen in question have entrenched views. They're so busy being blinkered that when I offer alternatives, they mistake that for thinking I only accept Alice's version of events, but that's what happens when you get defensive when someone challenges your precious posts.

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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by A_MichaelUK » Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:14 am

>AND I didn't see you there when I was doing it...

So how do you know it was "the same research" then?

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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by A_MichaelUK » Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:17 am

Thank You...that is exactly how I feel, there is a double standard...

I already dealt with that.

>I just want the facts not the BS fed from the Alice organization...I keep hearing, especially from Andy,

Who says I am part of "the Alice organization"?! Listen csarefully - I am here to represent my own views not those belonging to any one else and also, if you and Toronto Bob calm down (and read some older threads like I keep recommending that you do), you'll see that I don't fully accept anyone's version of events. You're too busy being defensive and making categorical statements to see that.
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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by A_MichaelUK » Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:19 am

>What gives us the right to get involved in the personal going's on???

For some reason, our two friends have a lot invested in this.

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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by dadascot » Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:19 pm

>You know, I've been following this thread and up to now just getting a bit humpty about the back and forth bickering,

If it bothers you that much and if you’re really that delicate, there’s probably a Quaker forum that you can join.

Andrew! Be careful that came very close to beiyou making a joke!!

> But some of the people here demanding that stooge reveal his sources constantly post their opinions as FACTS and as if they are Alice's confidant without revealing their sources. I do get a feeling of double standards going on here.

That's absolutely false (and you were doing so well).

Apart from answering in your usual patronising manner, your wrong. I know that's impossible for the all knowing oracle to admit, but, in the words of the great Clark McDowall "Naw son" wrong!

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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by A_MichaelUK » Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:44 pm

>Andrew!

Did I say you could call me that?

>Be careful that came very close to beiyou making a joke!!

I do it all the time. It's not my fault if you don't notice it.

>Apart from answering in your usual patronising manner, your wrong.

Tell me how.

>I know that's impossible for the all knowing oracle

Who is that? Is he or she a member here?

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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by dadascot » Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:41 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:>Andrew!

Did I say you could call me that?

>Be careful that came very close to beiyou making a joke!!

I do it all the time. It's not my fault if you don't notice it.

>Apart from answering in your usual patronising manner, your wrong.

Tell me how.

>I know that's impossible for the all knowing oracle

Who is that? Is he or she a member here?
lol

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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by RemarkablyInsincere » Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:35 am

Gunner wrote:
Bob had nothing to do with Kiss, do you not know Kiss's history? It was all their own doing.
The mistake your making here (as many make) is that assume that what you have read/heard is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. My source was from soneone that worked with Bob Ezrin and 'hung out' with him. What reason do we have to dismiss this in favour of what KISS (this is a band that can cannot mention Alice as an influence remember!!) say!??
Total bs. You're pulling stuff out of thin air and making ridiculous idiotic statements. If you have a source, name it. Then we will discredit your silly imaginary source.

I've read countless accounts about the history of KISS from *many* different sources both inside and outside the band over 30 years and Bob Ezrin doesn't enter the picture until the band had already recorded and released 3 studio albums and a live album.
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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by steven_crayn » Sun Aug 28, 2011 4:02 pm

tommystooge wrote:
steven_crayn wrote:
tommystooge wrote:>Since I'm a MODERATOR here, I am asking that misinformation not be spread. I am >giving you another opportunity to post sources please.
>he won't because he hasn't got any


My sources are more accurate than your break down on how to play Eighteen, Glen would laugh at this:

steven_crayn wrote: 5 chords actually but A isn't one of them it's an Am.

Em C D as you correctly said with Am and Bm the other two.

There is confusion sometimes as power chords can be used often omitting the 3rd creating an ambiguity to the harmonic nature of the chord being major or minor.
Further confusion is created by the harmonic series so you could hear a major 3rd in a two note A5 chord, but the underlying harmony on 18 if playing A5 & B5 are of minor chords.

An accurate transcription of the song appeared in Guitarist magazine issue 221 March 2002.
You haven't listed any sources Tommy Stooge I have listed a source for a transcription of 18 which confirms what I already knew. Glen knew how to play the song you clearly don't if you are disputing the chord progression, not that that surprises me as you are the one who said you were embarrassed seeing Steve Hunter on stage with Alice Cooper and in saying that will forever have no credibility.
You just can't get past the Steve Hunter comment...it's funny how what you say here in the forum is right, but if anyone else says something that contradicts you, they are wrong...sad really.
The sad one is you for making claims you can't back up and statements like the Steve Hunter one that shows everyone on this forum that you are a fool.
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