Keyboardists

[blue_turk]

Hey I just had some questions about the Alice Cooper keyboardists.

1. How important is it to have a keyboardist in Alice's band? As in, how important are the keyboards for Alice's live performances?

2. Why did Alice stop touring with a keyboardist in his band? Was it because he felt they were not so important?

3. Was a keyboardist any more important than usual for the Brutal Planet tour?

I would appreciate any answers as I have often wondered this.

[Marcelocooper]

I think it's a opinion thing on some of the questions. Anyway, the importance is very diferent from tour to tour. If the new album of the moment required a keyboard on some songs, it would be necessary a keyboard live.

2. Hard one, only he could tell that, but I think it had something to do with the back-to-hard-garage-rock thing. Garage rock does not have a keyborad, the music usually is simpler than that.

3. Yes. From tour to tour the importance is diferent, and that show, as I can see on the Brutally Life DVD, requiered a great keyborad playing.

[WickedYoungMan]

Funny as I was contemplating kicking back up a discussion asking if Alice should have a keyboardist back in!

1. How important is it to have a keyboardist in Alice's band? As in, how important are the keyboards for Alice's live performances?

Personally, I think quite a few of the songs sound a little empty without the keyboards. To me, the keyboards worked really well with the vocals in "Feed My Frankenstein." Without them live, the song sounds a bit empty to me personally. Poison, Cold Ethyl, Welcome To My Nightmare, Halo of Flies, etc. The keyboards would really give punch and character to some of those songs and would love to hear it back full time.

2. Why did Alice stop touring with a keyboardist in his band? Was it because he felt they were not so important?

If I had to guess, it could have been due to financial reasons?

When Eric Dover left in 2004 during the tour, they brought in Teddy Zigzag on keyboards until Damon came into the picture later that tour. So it was like a Dio-Band line up with one guitarist and keyboardist. I was lucky to see that and it was really cool if you ask me. So I am not sure if Alice himself deems them "unnecessary." I would say this is further evident by the fact that Damon Johnson did some keyboarding in the following tour, Jason Hook simulated some string sounds sorta on his guitar when I saw Alice last year (during "Only Women Bleed",) and the fact they have taped keyboards playing behind some songs would suggest that Alice does find them useful (especially when they are still used on the new albums.)

3. Was a keyboardist any more important than usual for the Brutal Planet tour?

Probably no more unusual than any other tour that he had the keyboardist or keyboards on. Is there any particular reason why you inquire about their use on this particular tour though? Just curious.

[Shoesalesman]

Funny as I was contemplating kicking back up a discussion asking if Alice should have a keyboardist back in!

I'm totally with you on this one. Keyboards add that extra punch but with finess.

[Jumping Jack]

This is a matter of personal opinion. Mine happens to be that my preferred Coop sound is based on prominent guitar riffs and that the keyboards only add a progressive/cheesy element to the live performance.

Two searing guitars, Chuck's bass, kicking drums, and Coop is the perfect combo. I much prefer the recent tour sound than BP. Just my opinion, and like noses, everyone has one.

[Gunner]

1. How important is it to have a keyboardist in Alice's band? As in, how important are the keyboards for Alice's live performances?

Very important if the song was written with keyboards in it, OR they need to 'synthesize' the sound of an instruments they don't have on stage, like strings and brass for example. Also, don't forget special effect noises that are particularly useful for creating tension at an Alice gig.

2. Why did Alice stop touring with a keyboardist in his band? Was it because he felt they were not so important?

No, because he was going through one of his 'lets strip everything down (including the stage show)' nonsense things that he does once in a while out of sheer boredom.

3. Was a keyboardist any more important than usual for the Brutal Planet tour?

Erm, well the album had keys on it, so in a sense 'yes'. Also, you have to say that this was one of his bigger productions and so, if you are going to 'do it bigger' show wise, I guess it follows to 'do it bigger' sound wise!??

[Si]

1. I think he's proved that he doesn't NEED a keyboard player, as he's being doing fine without one, however personally I think it does add something to the sound when there is one, and really helps some songs.
Remeber that Damon can play keyboards, and has played them with Alice when needed before.

2. I would say it was at least in part finantial. One less person to accomadate.

Someone mentioned the sound effects and stuff. The keyboard player doesn`t always (if ever) do those anyway. They are, or at least have been recently, triggered from the soundboard by Randy. I thnk he mentions it in the interview we did with him.

[Baz]

I agree with Si`s first point, he doesn`t need one, but i`ve always felt the sound seemed a bit fuller with one, but saying that, i`ve not missed one not being there.

With regards the costing, would adding a keyboard player add that much expense to the whole operation ?
Admitted, the band members would go up 25% but taken into context of the whole entourage, I would have thought the cost was minimal.

[blue_turk]

Funny as I was contemplating kicking back up a discussion asking if Alice should have a keyboardist back in!

1. How important is it to have a keyboardist in Alice's band? As in, how important are the keyboards for Alice's live performances?

Personally, I think quite a few of the songs sound a little empty without the keyboards. To me, the keyboards worked really well with the vocals in "Feed My Frankenstein." Without them live, the song sounds a bit empty to me personally. Poison, Cold Ethyl, Welcome To My Nightmare, Halo of Flies, etc. The keyboards would really give punch and character to some of those songs and would love to hear it back full time.

2. Why did Alice stop touring with a keyboardist in his band? Was it because he felt they were not so important?

If I had to guess, it could have been due to financial reasons?

When Eric Dover left in 2004 during the tour, they brought in Teddy Zigzag on keyboards until Damon came into the picture later that tour. So it was like a Dio-Band line up with one guitarist and keyboardist. I was lucky to see that and it was really cool if you ask me. So I am not sure if Alice himself deems them "unnecessary." I would say this is further evident by the fact that Damon Johnson did some keyboarding in the following tour, Jason Hook simulated some string sounds sorta on his guitar when I saw Alice last year (during "Only Women Bleed",) and the fact they have taped keyboards playing behind some songs would suggest that Alice does find them useful (especially when they are still used on the new albums.)

3. Was a keyboardist any more important than usual for the Brutal Planet tour?

Probably no more unusual than any other tour that he had the keyboardist or keyboards on. Is there any particular reason why you inquire about their use on this particular tour though? Just curious.

Yes, I was wondering if he wanted his band to become more of an industrial type band to go with the sound of the album

[BellaDonna]

In my opinion: each cd is different. Each difference is accomplished through different sounds which in turn lend to different 'moods' or 'feel'; the sounds evoke different emotions, so to speak.

Not everyone NEEDS keyboards, but sometimes; they help to get the point across. Not to mention: they shouldn't be 'poo poo'ed' either (not that anyone HAS, everyone and everything needs it's proper respect, is what I'm saying...).

I agree with Gunner here.

BD

[WickedYoungMan]

1. I think he's proved that he doesn't NEED a keyboard player, as he's being doing fine without one, however personally I think it does add something to the sound when there is one, and really helps some songs.
Remeber that Damon can play keyboards, and has played them with Alice when needed before.

Down to personal opinion I think. I feel they are lacking IMHO. He isn't going to die without one, but I think the songs would be a lot more powerful with them back in, in my opinion. It would also help to fill out the sound some more and give it some ambiance. No, I don't want them full up front (ala Dragontown Tour) but just there to help out the sound. Imagine listening to Desperado without that wonderful orchestra part at the end, or Feed My Frankenstein without the keyboard behind the vocals, etc.

[Gunner]

To me, keyboards is to rock music what cream is to coffee. And I'm not talking about 'tinkly bits' at the end of phrases (a la Bon Jovi etc), I'm talking keys that had colours and texture to the hard sound. Also, with hard rock power chords it can be added to give harmony and the full effect of the chord since power chords only essentially have two notes in them and give the effect of one note!!

[steven_crayn]

You cant do songs like Steven without a keyboard player or member of the band who can double up on keys.
I think the keyboards give Alice something extra some of his best songs have had keyboards on them such as the aforementioned Steven or My Stars.
Even on songs when they are not that noticeable they are important on record even if not used live, for example 'Schools Out' has keyboards on it even though it isn't that prominent.

[Si]

You cant do songs like Steven without a keyboard player or member of the band who can double up on keys.

Sorry Syeven, I almost let you get away with that, but I can`t.
It's simply not true.
1. Alice has been doing a section of 'Steven' live for a couple of years without a keyboard player.
2. Michael Bruce does an excellent version of 'My Stars' without a keyboard player.

Is it exactly like the album version? No. But a great song can be rearranged for a slight variation of instrumentation without losing it's power, especially with modern technology.

[NotSoPerfect]

Personally, I'm of the opinion that keyboards add to the sound, and in some cases definitely make a song sound fuller, but they are not "needed" live. I've seen 3 tours now, and none of them has had anything more than Damon on occasional keys, and most shows I've seen didn't have Damon at all. And they still put on a hell of a show every time, and while I was there, was I thinking "darn...if there was only a keyboard player..." Nope! If he adds one in, I'm sure it'll sound fantastic. If he continues without one....still sounds great to me! Not going to effect my enjoyment of the live show one bit!

[WickedYoungMan]

Sorry Syeven, I almost let you get away with that, but I can`t.
It's simply not true.
1. Alice has been doing a section of 'Steven' live for a couple of years without a keyboard player.

Technically, it is done with out a keyboard player, but it is still done with the keys taped anyway (which while I guess works seems to take away from the live thing IMHO.)

[Gunner]

Sorry Syeven, I almost let you get away with that, but I can`t.
It's simply not true.
1. Alice has been doing a section of 'Steven' live for a couple of years without a keyboard player.
2. Michael Bruce does an excellent version of 'My Stars' without a keyboard player.

Is it exactly like the album version? No. But a great song can be rearranged for a slight variation of instrumentation without losing it's power, especially with modern technology.

Sorry Si, I can't agree with all that.

For your first point, that is only a section and not the song. I can't quite recall what that section is, but I suspect it is either;

a) A section where keys are neither there or are very insignificant, OR
b) It is a re-arrangement and not the original working of it - which brings me onto the next point;

Yes, your final point is valid but not in the context in which StevenC argued. The song has then been re-arranged, that's a different matter - it's re-arranged. To be fair to Steven, he was referring to performing songs as they sound on the record, which is what one would expect. If nearly ALL Alice's work is writtten with keys involved (and I believe that is true) , then to turn up live without that instrument as part of the sound is a bit like saying; "Here, most of the songs played will either sound not as good as an integral part of the sound is missing, OR, they will be re-arranged to something with which you are not familiar". Now, since we would be talking some 70% of material, I don't think actually that is fair to the audiance....do you? And let's face it, if they don't take a keyboard out on tour it's because they just don't fancy giving you the songs as you expect to hear them and for no other reason. Not good enough I'm afraid, for me anyway.

[A_MichaelUK]

>Yes, your final point is valid but not in the context in which StevenC argued.

I’m not particularly taking sides with reference to question of keyboards (it’s not a huge issue for me) but I have to disagree. If you read the interview with Damon, the gist of what Si wrote is correct. It’s possible that steven_crayn hadn’t read it by the time he sent in his last post, but I’d have thought you and WickedYoungMan would have.

>. To be fair to Steven, he was referring to performing songs as they sound on the record, which is what one would expect.

They “would”? Who says? No, wait. I forgot that you speak for everyone who goes to an Alice Cooper show.

>If nearly ALL Alice's work is writtten with keys involved (and I believe that is true) ,

Really? What is your evidence? How do you know most of it isn’t written on just a guitar? Even if keyboards are involved, who says keyboards become part of the final arrangement? You just LOVE using generalisations and presenting them as facts.

>then to turn up live without that instrument as part of the sound is a bit like saying; "Here, most of the songs played will either sound not as good as an integral part of the sound is missing, OR, they will be re-arranged to something with which you are not familiar".

Maybe you’ve never heard of rock music – two guitars, bass and drums.

>Now, since we would be talking some 70% of material, I don't think actually that is fair to the audiance....do you?

I’ve been to maybe a hundred and fifty Alice Cooper shows and I often allow fans to speak to me afterwards. No – one (I repeat, no – one) has ever said the show was ruined or something was lacking because there were no keyboards.

>And let's face it, if they don't take a keyboard out on tour it's because they just don't fancy giving you the songs as you expect to hear them and for no other reason. Not good enough I'm afraid, for me anyway.

Ridiculous. I’ve heard it all now. As if Alice sits there and thinks of ways to cheat the audience.

[Si]

Sorry Si, I can't agree with all that.
For your first point, that is only a section and not the song. I can't quite recall what that section is, but I suspect it is either;
a) A section where keys are neither there or are very insignificant, OR
b) It is a re-arrangement and not the original working of it - which brings me onto the next point;

It's the start of the song, which starts with the famous keyboard intro, and it's done using a TAPE. No keyboard player needed.

Yes, your final point is valid but not in the context in which StevenC argued. The song has then been re-arranged, that's a different matter - it's re-arranged. To be fair to Steven, he was referring to performing songs as they sound on the record, which is what one would expect.

Couldn`t disagree more. I don`t think ANY of the songs in the show are performed exactly as they are on record. And I don`t expect them to be exactly the same. How boring would that be??? Nothing is radically rearranged, but they certainly aren't the same as the studio versions, and they have never been the same live as the studio versions, ever. Each musician plays a song slightly differently, especially when it comes to bass and drums, but guitars as well. Hell, Alice doesn`t even sing them the same each night!

If nearly ALL Alice's work is writtten with keys involved (and I believe that is true),

I don't believe that is true at all

And let's face it, if they don't take a keyboard out on tour it's because they just don't fancy giving you the songs as you expect to hear them and for no other reason.

No idea where you got that from. I think Alice decides what songs he wants to do based on his own tastes/ideas, staging ideas, and what he thinks the majority want to hear. After that he maybe considers if a specific song is possible to do without a keyboard player [ie using tapes or no keyboards at all] but I very much doubt he decided to drop the keyboard player because "they just don't fancy giving you the songs as you expect to hear them" Sorry, that makes no sense to me at all.

[NotSoPerfect]

Couldn`t disagree more. I don`t think ANY of the songs in the show are performed exactly as they are on record. And I don`t expect them to be exactly the same. How boring would that be???

I don't know if I've ever been to a concert where every single song in the setlist was identical to the studio version...and that's part of the fun of it, I think. Gives the band/artist a chance to do something different, and lets the audience hear something different.