comparing ACG to Alice solo in terms of rating enjoyment

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WickedYoungMan
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Post by WickedYoungMan » Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:57 pm

Personally, I thought Alice was on somewhat of a roll, solo wise, up until this last album. The last album only served as a reminder to me of how great the original band was. Go on, throw your stones now.
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Post by Shoesalesman » Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:54 am

ACG and solo-Alice are two separate entities. I can't compare them. They both offer something different in terms of the music, image and character.
If I may put forward a slice of personal colostomy...

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Post by Headbangers Ball » Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:06 am

Arrrgh!! I hate these kinds of questions, as they are so so difficult to answer and very thought provoking. :p

If I were to be stuck on a desert island with only two cds/lps - then without a thought I would choose LITD and Killer. Then one would assume I think ACG is better than AC solo; but thats not actually so.

I was a teenager when the ACG exploded in our faces way back then in the good old 70's. There really was nothing else to compare. They were paramount to an elephant stampeed through a quiet jungle!!!

Alice Cooper is the one and only rock star/legend that I have followed through with over the years, and thats a long time considering I am coming up 52 myself.

So although I dont think alot of Alice's solo work is any good (in fact, alot of it is quite cringeworthy) - I do think Special Forces (for a prime example), is hugely underrated. Only Alice could pull that one off. But then of course there is the argument that he was so ill when doing that. Is it that fact that makes SF so good - or would it have just been another record if he had NOT been so ill??

Thats why I hate these kinds of questions, cause there are so many 'what ifs' in them.

If I am totally honest with myself. I don't think his solo work for quite awhile now has been anything to shout about. I question myself wether I still buy it because I want to like it or wether I buy it out of helpless habit.

I do listen to (and like) ACAS. But lets be brutally honest - its really nothing to write home about.

My higher percentage goes to AC solo; because whatever anyone says - without him as the front man, the whole madness would never have gotten off the ground.

AC - 70% ACG - 30%
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Post by WickedYoungMan » Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:02 am

Then one would assume I think ACG is better than AC solo; but thats not actually so.
Actually, reading the the rest of your post makes it seem like this is the case even more so (or at least doesn't seem really favorable to the opposite opinion.) I'm sort of scratching my head after you gave the ratings that you did after saying what you did. Are you sure you were rating on your "enjoyment" level? Don't know about you, I typically don't enjoy something I would find mostly cringeworthy! :laugh:

And no, I'm not trying to persuade you to think one way or the other, just trying to clairfy what you mean unless I'm missing something.
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Post by Headbangers Ball » Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:41 am

Maybe you are missing something!? :rotfl:

I said at the very beginning of my post that these kinds of questions are hard to answer.

I was there at the start when the whole thing took off - your much much younger than I, so you can only judge by what you have seen recorded on tape, etc.

Actually 'being there' so to speak and living along side and following the career of someone to whom you kinda think of as a God puts a different slant on things.

Yes, now in my dotage and after having met the man in the flesh, I can accept the truth that Alice is a human being just like the rest of us. Back in the 70's the prospect of meeting your idol was little more than a pipe dream. You were not there in the 70's, so I don't expect you to understand the 'hype'. But other people my age will.

So I think in my post I was being realistic. I didn't say all his solo work was cringeworthy, but some of it is. But then so the same applies to many many other artists. I did however say 'alot' - which re-reading my post was probably a bad choice of words. ;)

I was just trying to give what I thought was an honest opinion to a question.
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Post by Wunty » Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:03 pm

1969 - 1971 are toppermost peak of the band's, and by default, the man's artistic achievement. Those 4 albums (PFY, EA, LITD & K) are diverse timeless classics. Although sometimes brilliant, the subsequent output never quite matches that early creative genius and intensity.
Only my opinion and I'm sure not a majority one...
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Post by mattcoddington » Wed Oct 01, 2008 3:53 pm

WickedYoungMan wrote:Personally, I thought Alice was on somewhat of a roll, solo wise, up until this last album. The last album only served as a reminder to me of how great the original band was. Go on, throw your stones now.
oh, we'll be throwing more than just stones!!!

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Post by mattcoddington » Wed Oct 01, 2008 3:55 pm

Shoesalesman wrote:ACG and solo-Alice are two separate entities. I can't compare them. They both offer something different in terms of the music, image and character.
of course! it's very silly to compare alice's old band with any of his newer musicians. however, one could compare alice cooper then, vs now.

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Post by GNDM » Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:25 pm

Matt's suggestion is a good one.

These ACG vs. Solo Alice questions show up here all the time. Why not try to compare Alice (the man) in these settings/eras:

1. Spiders/Nazz
2. Alice Cooper/Ezrin
3. Early solo Alice
4. Current solo Alice

Comparing the original band with more current members, is fair to neither. The way Alice "uses" his band mates then and today is totally different. (And maybe how the band uses him?)

"Uses" - not to be considered in negative terms.

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Post by MacQueen » Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:52 am

You really can't compare.

The ACG makes up only 25% of the whole of Alice Cooper while solo Alice has endured. Both versions have hits and misses, but no matter what Alice endures.

I'm not much of a fan of PFY and EA, but I loathe Dirty Diamonds, Lace and Whiskey, and TACS more so.

So I'll say: ACG - 50
Alice Solo - 50


So as a whole...you know.

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Re: comparing ACG to Alice solo in terms of rating enjoyment

Post by PFOLGORE » Sat Dec 05, 2020 2:30 am

With the ACG you are comparing young men in the prime of their musical careers at the peak of their creativity and enthusiasm. Had the ACG rolled into the 80s intact it might be a musical train wreck, and very unlikely they would have fared better than a solo Alice Cooper. The question should be could ACG of the 80s & 90s compare favorably with the group from the early seventies. I would say based on their solo careers. No.

Yes, there was a group dynamic, but that play out in the seventies. By jumping ship Alice was still able to hit a few home runs over a long career successful career. If he stuck with the ACG group they would be back to playing bars and the County fair circuit and they would be no hits.

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Re: comparing ACG to Alice solo in terms of rating enjoyment

Post by pitkin88 » Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:09 am

What a load of bollocks!

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Re: comparing ACG to Alice solo in terms of rating enjoyment

Post by mestreech » Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:55 pm

1. Spiders/Nazz 10
2. Alice Cooper/Ezrin 75
3. Early solo Alice 10
4. Current solo Alice 5

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Re: comparing ACG to Alice solo in terms of rating enjoyment

Post by Ted Sallis » Sat Dec 05, 2020 3:15 pm

ACG 100
AC solo 5

Ted

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Re: comparing ACG to Alice solo in terms of rating enjoyment

Post by dadascot » Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:31 pm

I think the biggest difference is consistency. In my opinion the five WB ACG albums were all classics. I still struggle with PFY and EA. Solo he has touched those heights but not consistently. WTM, FTI, TLT Dada, to me are all classic albums but what is missing, as Bob Ezrin stated, is the gang mentality of the earlier albums. I love the early 80s albums because for me, they have a sense of danger that is missing from the other solo work.
I have loved the last couple of albums, along with TEOAC, because they are solid garage rock that reminds me of the original sound.
Would the ACG have continued on the same level?? Almost certainly not, but we will never know.

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Re: comparing ACG to Alice solo in terms of rating enjoyment

Post by tuneylune » Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:21 am

Some thoughtful comments here and I'm inclined to agree most with Steven Crayn in his rating. Alice solo has so many albums to choose from and there have been some I've truly enjoyed (WELCOME TO MY NIGHTMARE, FROM THE INSIDE, FLUSH THE FASHION,SPECIAL FORCES, ZIPPER CATCHES SKIN, DADA, THE LAST TEMPTATION, BRUTAL PLANET, DIRTY DIAMONDS, WELCOME 2 MY NIGHTMARE) from those I can't put on again (ALICE COOPER GOES TO HELL, THE ALICE COOPER SHOW, RAISE YOUR FIST AND YELL, TRASH, DRAGONTOWN, THE EYES OF ALICE COOPER and ALONG CAME A SPIDER). Honestly, any artist who has a large history will put out work which may not appeal to everyone. I still find a cut or two which gets Me going and personally, I think that Alice has gotten better as a performer over time... He can be content that He is a Legend, A Household name, who has worked with some stellar musicians and I really think his current touring band is probably the best He has ever had, which is saying a lot, considering the caliber of past musicians.
But, when all is said and done, I still will always enjoy the ACG albums over anything in the solo canon. It may have been my young age when I first started getting the albums (GREATEST HITS in late December 1974...how long ago that was) and just being completely taken in by it all. Hours upon hours listening, looking at the photos, reading the liner notes and still feel the LOVE IT TO DEATH-MUSCLE OF LOVE run cannot be beaten ; by Alice himself or just about any other band.

ACG-100% absolutely!
Alice solo-70%
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Re: comparing ACG to Alice solo in terms of rating enjoyment

Post by patrick » Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:31 am

some very good points here by Tuneylune. Guess there's a lot of nostalgia in comparing both ACG and Alice solo. I mean, BDB was my very first record ever and the ACG records were there for ages to be the majority of the records I had and listened to. Now, 40 years and millions of tunes later, I still feel some nostalgia whenever I put BDB or SO e.g. on..
Within another 40 years ( :grin: ) who knows how we will think about let's say Paranormal , a truly stand out to me in his solo work ..
you really wouldn't understand..

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Re: comparing ACG to Alice solo in terms of rating enjoyment

Post by mr.barlow » Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:46 pm

I never compare them as to me they are two distinct entities.
The original band with Ezrin was a band in their prime who went out on top...even if it was unwillingly. Ezrin deserves much more credit when it comes to the songwriting. It's my opinion he should have received a credit on nearly every song.

However I always preferred solo Alice namely for his ability to try different genres and roll along...mainly successfully...with changing musical trends. His solo catalog is incredible when you stop and think of how he navigated from 1975 to today being able to offer great music no matter what the current trends were at the time.

I also prefer solo Alice for one big reason: Dada.

In my opinion the School's Out album is the only original band album that comes close to touching it.

My Stars to me is Alice's best song and I think it's greatness comes from Ezrin who wrote it along with Alice and Dick Wagner's playing. His guitar on that song is some if the best in rock history.

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Re: comparing ACG to Alice solo in terms of rating enjoyment

Post by cooperrocks » Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:50 am

For me and this is all subjective but I prefer his solo career. Don't get me wrong I like all eras of era but I find his solo work more creative and the albums I listen to the most are from his solo career. Like I said I love all Alice but if forced to name my three least favorite albums they would be Pretties For You, Easy Action and Muscle of Love. In terms of the original band I think Love it To Death is my favorite ACG album and Killer is great too. But I would argue School's Out is inconsistent, Billion Dollar Babies which is really good is a much more commercial album, and like I said I am not a huge fan of Muscle of Love. There are so many solo albums I really like.

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Re: comparing ACG to Alice solo in terms of rating enjoyment

Post by pitkin88 » Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:19 am

Prefer the old stuff but I'm so familiar with those albums I hardly listen to them these days. I guess I listen more or at least equally to newer stuff.

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