Alice's Band Mates: An Appreciation

[Si]

Remember being very disappointed when he didn’t appear on Dirty Diamonds (though he does appear on the photo in the cd booklet )

Although Eric Singer is pictured on the album sleeve he does NOT play on the album. When the band went into the studio Tommy Clufetos was still in the band. He left at the end of the sessions and Eric Singer rejoined. It was just easier to take the cover photos with Singer then to call Tommy back just for a photo.
https://www.sickthingsuk.co.uk/01-disco ... amonds.php

[Prometheus77]

But still, I don't see why a producer of an album would have any input on what is played in a show. But then again, it's bad enough if, supposedly, the manager has a say in that.

If you are referring to Ezrin he is VERY involved in the show. He is more than just an album producer for Alice.
I have personally watched a rehearsal where Bob and Alice have been changing things: altering choreography and changing arrangements right there on stage in front of me, the band repeating parts of the show at Ezrin's direction to get them right, the day before the first show of a new tour.

Alice, Bob and Shep are a team, a partnership. All three have input into everything in terms of what we hear and what we see under the Alice Cooper name.

Doesn't change the fact that it's odd. Name an other artist, let alone a legend that has been doing it since over half a century, that lets a manager and record producer tell him what songs to play in his show. Actually a bit troubling to think of Alice like a puppet, that doesn't make his own decisions when it comes to his shows.

[Si]

But still, I don't see why a producer of an album would have any input on what is played in a show. But then again, it's bad enough if, supposedly, the manager has a say in that.

If you are referring to Ezrin he is VERY involved in the show. He is more than just an album producer for Alice.
I have personally watched a rehearsal where Bob and Alice have been changing things: altering choreography and changing arrangements right there on stage in front of me, the band repeating parts of the show at Ezrin's direction to get them right, the day before the first show of a new tour.

Alice, Bob and Shep are a team, a partnership. All three have input into everything in terms of what we hear and what we see under the Alice Cooper name.

Doesn't change the fact that it's odd. Name an other artist, let alone a legend that has been doing it since over half a century, that lets a manager and record producer tell him what songs to play in his show. Actually a bit troubling to think of Alice like a puppet, that doesn't make his own decisions when it comes to his shows.

That is NOT what I said at all.

[Prometheus77]

Nope, with all due respect you ASSUMED that, but it is not what I said. I said Nita advocated for songs from Constrictor and Raise Your Fist and Yell. That doesn't mean she called the shots or made the final decision. Advocate means make a recommendation which is exactly what she did. Those are her favorite albums and a style she is very good at. When she was hired Nita said an interview that Alice told her he was glad to have a shredder in the band because, "Now, we can do some of the 80s stuff."

You insinuated it. Make yourself more clear, if you want to avoid misunderstandings. But again. Just because Alice says something, doesn't mean it's the absolute truth. I maintain that the others could have done the job too, if he told them that that's what he wanted to do. But I'm not complaining that since her hiring he thought they could do those songs and finally did them. They are the more interesting song choices of the last couple of years.

[Prometheus77]

That is NOT what I said at all.

And I didn't said you did. But that's what I keep hearing, which previously was that Shep decides what gets played. The Bob information is new, but even more paints a picture that others tell Alice what to do.

[Prometheus77]

Its not ridiculous at all, certain players are good at certain things. All three guitarists are talented but all in different areas. Ryan and tommy are not fast players.
Alices band post 2000 until orianthi came in wasnt suited to the 1980s style of guitaring. It was way too focused on the garage rock style. Orianthi is more blues based but her skills stretched into the shred/neo classical style which allowed alice to start playing more of that material. Nita is a big fan of the 80s style so she lobbied for more of that material and i presume alice saw more appreciation for the 80s stuff than what the snooty musical press lead people to believe.

Again. Is it groundhog day? I'm repeating myself all the time! They are professional guitar players. Even if it is not their style, I'm confident they could learn to play any song that is asked of them. It may well be true that Alice, Shep, Ezrin, whoever decide to not got there, because it isn't their style, but to say they didn't go there, because they absolutely CAN'T play these songs, is ridiculous.

[Si]

That is NOT what I said at all.

And I didn't said you did. But that's what I keep hearing, which previously was that Shep decides what gets played. The Bob information is new, but even more paints a picture that others tell Alice what to do.

But that isn't true as I said.
"Alice, Bob and Shep are a team, a partnership. All three have input into everything in terms of what we hear and what we see under the Alice Cooper name. "

If Alice didn't want to do something he wouldn't. And in turn if he absolutely did want to do something he would.
Alice trusts and respects Shep and Bob's opinions on things, but that doesn't make him a "puppet". It's not like Alice says "I want to do 'the Ballad of Jessie Jane' this year and Shep says "well you can't, so tough!" They will all throw ideas into the hat and decide what ideas are used and what isn't.
Now, is Alice easily swayed on some things, possible, but that would more likely be because he doesn't have a strong enough opinion either way. I'm sure if it was something he really wanted to do, then it would, if possible, be done.

[Prometheus77]

But that isn't true as I said.
"Alice, Bob and Shep are a team, a partnership. All three have input into everything in terms of what we hear and what we see under the Alice Cooper name. "

If Alice didn't want to do something he wouldn't. And in turn if he absolutely did want to do something he would.
Alice trusts and respects Shep and Bob's opinions on things, but that doesn't make him a "puppet". It's not like Alice says "I want to do 'the Ballad of Jessie Jane' this year and Shep says "well you can't, so tough!" They will all throw ideas into the hat and decide what ideas are used and what isn't.
Now, is Alice easily swayed on some things, possible, but that would more likely be because he doesn't have a strong enough opinion either way. I'm sure if it was something he really wanted to do, then it would, if possible, be done.

Well, whether that is true or not, you obviously don't know either, as and I am so bold once again, I'm assuming, you're not there when the decisions are being made. And from what I've been told, he doesn't seem to have a strong opinion on setlists and does let management tell him what to do in that regard.

What you're sure of (and I hope) isn't really relevant, is it? As none of us are in the room when decisions are being made and we can only go by what we are told.

[Saint&Sinner]

Well, whether that is true or not, you obviously don't know either, as and I am so bold once again, I'm assuming, you're not there when the decisions are being made. And from what I've been told, he doesn't seem to have a strong opinion on setlists and does let management tell him what to do in that regard.

What you're sure of (and I hope) isn't really relevant, is it? As none of us are in the room when decisions are being made and we can only go by what we are told.

I don't get the antagonism here. It is well known that when Alice wants to do something it happens - Raise the dead tour and all those horrible covers being a good example (despite the . But alice works with his team. He has known shep and bob for years. even when alice wasn't working directly with bob he was still with alice behind the scenes (constrictor getting kane on board etc) I dont get the issue. If his band are pushing a certain song/era than why would alice say no for the sake of it. he has many times tried out certain songs and if he feels like they didn't work then he will drop them, he has many times started out with certain songs which have been removed.

[cooperrocks]

Nope, with all due respect you ASSUMED that, but it is not what I said. I said Nita advocated for songs from Constrictor and Raise Your Fist and Yell. That doesn't mean she called the shots or made the final decision. Advocate means make a recommendation which is exactly what she did. Those are her favorite albums and a style she is very good at. When she was hired Nita said an interview that Alice told her he was glad to have a shredder in the band because, "Now, we can do some of the 80s stuff."

You insinuated it. Make yourself more clear, if you want to avoid misunderstandings. But again. Just because Alice says something, doesn't mean it's the absolute truth. I maintain that the others could have done the job too, if he told them that that's what he wanted to do. But I'm not complaining that since her hiring he thought they could do those songs and finally did them. They are the more interesting song choices of the last couple of years.

No, I did not. You wanted to start something with others. You have attacked or misconstrued what I said, what Si said, etc. In other words, you want to start something with people simply to be a keyboard cowboy or you don't like how Alice does business or there is a lack of reading comprehension. Regardless, Alice has people he trust and considers their input.

And just because someone is a Professional musician doesn't mean everything is their strength. For example, take an NFL Quarterback. Say the starter gets hurt and he is replaced with the backup. Both Pro quarterbacks but someone like Patrick Mahomes has a certain skillset, while his backup may do other things well and have a different set of skills he brings to the table.

[mr.barlow]

Shep has final say on all aspects of everything Alice.

Alice trusts him that much.

Bob has final say in the studio and which songs are picked for the albums and who plays on them.

The whole of Alice Cooper in 2023 is the three of them. With Shep being the one making the final decisions on everything.

[Prometheus77]

Shep has final say on all aspects of everything Alice.

Alice trusts him that much.

Bob has final say in the studio and which songs are picked for the albums and who plays on them.

The whole of Alice Cooper in 2023 is the three of them. With Shep being the one making the final decisions on everything.

And that is what I think is odd. I would expect a little more leadership from the main character. And the manager having final say is, well, odd.

@Saint&Sinner and @cooperrocks
I haven't started anything. I just disagreed with things. If that is considered an attack, well, then maybe the discussion board should be closed down. You have insinuated that she singlehandedly decided to bring those songs back, that weren't played because the other guys weren't capable of playing those songs and now they get played because there is someone who can play them. And I disagreed with that. Also not sure what football or strength has to do with that. We're talking about professional guitar players learning to play a song. They don't even have to invent anything. But whatever.

[rodentdog]

Does Sheryl have any input?

[cooperrocks]

Shep has final say on all aspects of everything Alice.

Alice trusts him that much.

Bob has final say in the studio and which songs are picked for the albums and who plays on them.

The whole of Alice Cooper in 2023 is the three of them. With Shep being the one making the final decisions on everything.

And that is what I think is odd. I would expect a little more leadership from the main character. And the manager having final say is, well, odd.

@Saint&Sinner and @cooperrocks
I haven't started anything. I just disagreed with things. If that is considered an attack, well, then maybe the discussion board should be closed down. You have insinuated that she singlehandedly decided to bring those songs back, that weren't played because the other guys weren't capable of playing those songs and now they get played because there is someone who can play them. And I disagreed with that. Also not sure what football or strength has to do with that. We're talking about professional guitar players learning to play a song. They don't even have to invent anything. But whatever.

Once again and I will discuss the point no further after this, you assumed that. I stated that Constrictor and Raise Your Fist and Yell were her favorite Alice albums according to things she has said which make sense because her playing style is suited very much to those albums and her and Kane are good friends with mutual respect to one another. And each band member makes suggestions. I never said that those songs were guaranteed to be played but they are considered. For example, Ryan Roxie advocated for Bed of Nails to come back to the set and according to an interview Ryan did a few years ago, Alice initially had some hesitancy to bring the song back thinking it was an overly sexualized song. Ryan mentioned they still do Cold Ethyl which is about making love to a dead woman. Alice put some thought into it and came back later saying they were adding it to the set and it has been there the last few years. In other words, Ryan made a point. Alice and the others in charge considered it and now it is played. No Ryan did make the decision but he gave input and that's what Nita has done as well and that is all I said. Period.

In terms of football, it is an analogy. Different professionals have a different skillset and you tailor your game plan to the strengths of the person(s) playing. They are all professionals but some are better at certain things. It is like that with a band. One of Nita's best strengths is being able to play a shredding style of guitar which means a lot of the mid 80's and early 90's stuff is something where you consider how good she is at that type of song and it opens up playing those songs and making those sound great. Ryan is awesome with the 70s stuff, so you sort of let him take the lead on guitar with those songs. Tommy is strong on things like the Trash and Hey Stoopid era, etc. In other words, some of the song selections come down to who is in a band at that particular time. Another example is take the band Black Sabbath. When Ronnie James Dio became the singer, even though he has a better voice than Ozzy, he never sang the Ozzy stuff particularly well and Ozzy would never be able to pull off the Dio stuff. Both professional musicians, both with various strengths and weaknesses.

Alice has input from various sources and they are all part of the process and that is all I and others are saying.

[lordcatfish]

Big fan of Ryan Roxie. Love his playing style, his writing, his on stage demeanour etc.

On a related note, the band on Brutally Live was fantastic. Roxie and Pete Friesen were a great guitar duo, Greg Smith and Eric Singer a tight rhythm section, and Teddy Zig Zag adding depth and nuance on the keys.

Pete Friesen then leads me to the Trashes the World line up - another really talented group of players.

I also really like the drumming on A Fistful of Alice (Jimmy DeGrasso). I see he also played on Theatre of Death as others have mentioned, but I can't recall that one too well.

[mr.barlow]

Does Sheryl have any input?

Shep has final say on all things Alice. It's been that way for quite a long time...in fact...a very long time.

[Si]

Does Sheryl have any input?

Shep has final say on all things Alice. It's been that way for quite a long time...in fact...a very long time.

That is basically correct, but it's not the same as Alice being described by some as a "puppet".

For example: Alice wants the show to feature a giant spider falling from the roof during 'Black Widow'.
He would tell the idea to Shep, and Shep would look into it, consider whether it was a) doable, b) affordable (inc. creation, transport costs, operation costs) and c) practical considering the venues they will be playing (theatres, festivals, guest spots). He will THEN decide if it's feesible or not (in this example almost certainly not!) and make the final decision.

In terms of Ezrin:
Alice wants to do 'My Stars'. He knows It's been requested by fans for years (he's been told by the band and others) so it's on his "radar" and under consideration for the new show (as are many other songs).
The band would be asked to learn the song and it would be tested out in early rehearsals to see how it sounded, how it fit the show, how the show flowed around it. Then Bob and Alice would talk and decide whether it should be included. Now, I know, because he told me, that Shep thought 'My Stars' was too long and "psychedelic" to work in the show nowadays. That''s one reason it took so long for it to finally appear. But Alice still wanted to do it, so they talked about ways of playing it and eventually came up with the idea of doing part of it at the beginning of the band only section in the middle of the show. Everyone agreed that it sounded good like that and so it made the show (and was the highlight of that show by far!).

That isn't Alice being a puppet! It's the three of them working together to make the show the best it can be (in their opinions).

[mr.barlow]

Alice got his way to bring Kane back too. But...in the end..the final product is Shep's call.

It's all about return on investment and the safest way to maximize the return.

Alice is in no way a puppet. I don't know why this is such a surprise to people as it's been this way nearly forever.

Shep's took over nearly everything after 1985. It was mainly his money and whatever Alice had left (not much) that financed the 1986 tour.

I also was told Shep promised to guarantee any losses incurred by MCA should Constrictor been a total flop. Alice was considered a huge risk at that time and no label would touch him. Shep got the deal at MCA (partly by calling in a favor) which was a bare bones deal and with caveats. (To be clear I never got this 100% verified but heard variations of this from several people involved at the time).

After the Epic deal ended everything has been funded by Shep, Alice and Ezrin with Shep being the shot caller.

[alicefannor]

say what you want, but I like this increased activity on the board

my novice take; Alice is most likely never forced into doing something he doesn't want to do. He may or may not have strong opinions about whatever it might be, but at the end of the day, I don't think anything happens that goes against his wishes.
I'm sure there are compromises and pulling back and forth, but at the end of the day he signs off on what happens

[Maaki]

Speaking of the drums regarding the Constrictor album. On an interview on Sirius XM last year, Kane Roberts mentioned that there was some talk of bringing Anton Fig in to play drums for that album as well but due to time (maybe budget too), they went with drum machines on that album and then of course real drums on Raise Your Fist and Yell. I like the Constrictor album but always wondered how different that album would sound with actual drums. I would love to hear it remastered and remixed with actual drums.

Man, Fig is such an awesome drummer. One of those who actually make songs better. Too bad, really, but times were tough.