SickthingsUK

I'm hoping that pitkin88 comes back. I hope he's doing OK, anyone know?

Spiner202 wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 27, 2022 3:01 am

but it seems like it's contrary to the purpose of this specific album, and I can't help but feel that Ezrin overruled Alice here. Still, I'll remain optimistic that this will be a great record.

I agree. This suggests he (Bob) thinks the band couldn't come up with enough good material for one full album on their own. I find that hard to believe. Going by the last two AC albums you have to wonder about Bob's song choices these days.

Bringing in outside writers on what was supposed to be and Alice+band album seems to defeat the purpose of the album and undermine the band (again). These will need to be extremely good songs to justify it, and on recent form I'm not holding my breath.

Si wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 27, 2022 8:36 am

Spiner202 wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 27, 2022 3:01 am

but it seems like it's contrary to the purpose of this specific album, and I can't help but feel that Ezrin overruled Alice here. Still, I'll remain optimistic that this will be a great record.

I agree. This suggests he (Bob) thinks the band couldn't come up with enough good material for one full album on their own. I find that hard to believe. Going by the last two AC albums you have to wonder about Bob's song choices these days.

Bringing in outside writers on what was supposed to be and Alice+band album seems to defeat the purpose of the album and undermine the band (again). These will need to be extremely good songs to justify it, and on recent form I'm not holding my breath.

100% agree with this. Considering the length of time these musicians have been with Alice and all the positivity they have brought to 'the brand', they really deserve a lot more respect. And surely they'll have as good a handle, or better, of what a strong new Alice Cooper song should be all about than however many randoms drafted in to come up with something?

I'm not sure of the timeline of writing and recording, but I have to imagine that Nita continually doing solo tours in the month or two between each leg of Alice's tours means that she will have a lesser presence on the album.

Spiner202 wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 27, 2022 4:30 pm

I'm not sure of the timeline of writing and recording, but I have to imagine that Nita continually doing solo tours in the month or two between each leg of Alice's tours means that she will have a lesser presence on the album.

I don't think that is necessarily the case. A lot of recording has been done DURING the AC tours, in hotels and on days off. This is perfectly normal in this day and age of digital files and laptop recording. I would expect her to be on every track, as with the whole band.
If you are talking about songwriting you could be right, simply as she had less of a proven record then Tommy, Chuck and Ryan - as this was probably all done before 'Dead Inside' was released, which proved she can write great songs as well.

The only "outside writers" that should be involved in this record, if there are any, should be Dennis, Michael or Neal. There is no reason or excuse, I feel, for anyone else to be involved either playing or writing.

But keep in mind that Alice has said they are working on two different albums, so its still possible these "outside writer" songs will actually be used on this second unknown record and not the band album. But maybe I'm clutching at straws...

I agree. This suggests he (Bob) thinks the band couldn't come up with enough good material for one full album on their own. I find that hard to believe. Going by the last two AC albums you have to wonder about Bob's song choices these days.

Bringing in outside writers on what was supposed to be and Alice+band album seems to defeat the purpose of the album and undermine the band (again). These will need to be extremely good songs to justify it, and on recent form I'm not holding my breath.

Agree with you Si. Considering the last couple of albums it makes you wonder what the heck got rejected for some of the songs that made it to pass muster. I hope the band are grasping this opportunity and not holding their best work back for their own personal releases. 'Eyes' is good album and Ryan had significant input to that. I just hope that Bob produces an 'Alice band' album and not a 'Bob' album. After all the clammering for a 'Band' album I really want this to work.

Disappointing news to say the least. Not interested at all in outside writers when this was suppose to be a band album. Especially when Alice has a damn good band. Ezrin has worked with Deep Purple a lot the last few years and it seems he has a different approach with them. There are almost no outside writers or studio musicians on their albums. Not counting their newest album of covers which still manages to sound like Deep Purple. One of my complaints with solo Alice is the lack of cohesion on his albums. Many songs don’t sound like a band but songs by committee. And I think Ezrin has a lot to do with that. Just damn disappointing.

Having outside writers is besides the point, it should be the best material that gets on the album. The problem with that is obviously a very subjective matter as to what is "the best" . If it was a band decision as to what stayed and went (majority rules) then that's cool but it is not a band. Alice is the leader and he puts alot of faith in bob ezrins production and song writing ability (rightly so)
For me W2MN and Paranormal are better than anything released after brutal planet. Detroit stories is way too eclectic and way too many covers but this is what Alice wanted. Still some gems in there (wonderful world, i hate you, social debris) but not enough original spark or creative through line for me.

If for instance Desmond child co wrote to the level of "I am Made of You" then hell yeah bring it on, that song is the best thing since brutal planet.
Alices last stab at "band" albums (eyes and diamonds) were wildly inconsistent at best and just plain bad at worst.

I know everyone was hoping it was a "band" album and it may still be that, the outside writers could be for this mysterious second album.....I do hope nita has a good presence on the album she seems a capable writer and is a killer guitarist. Chuck has penned some killer tunes with Beasto. Tommy, Tommy, Tommy is solid, But for me the weak link is ryans song writing - way to basic and predictable for the most part.
Im still pumped for it and i would LOVE if "the road" came out this year, i really would. but we shall see.

Saint&Sinner wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:39 am

But for me the weak link is ryans song writing - way to basic and predictable for the most part.

While outside song writers feels a bit dissapointing, I think it's more important for me that the band plays on the whole album. It's also interesting if it's complete songs being brought in from outside writers or just ideas for the band/Alice/Ezrin to build on.

I am so disappointed. He just can't help himself can he? I understand in the 70's when the bands were too wasted to find their way to recording sessions. But this? This was to be a band record. Those are so very rare these days. And these guys are available so there is no (nothing, zero, zilch, 0) excuse.

Instead it's going to be another Bob Ezrin featuring Bob Ezrin's inflated ego record where some no name slinger plays Nita's solo - remotely in Nashville or wherever - and 7/10 songs are generic songs written to "a rock band" and Chuck had some (rejected) input on a bassline on two of them.

ADMIN NOTE: EDITED FOR LANGUAGE. PLEASE RE-READ THE FORUM RULES.

I am sorry Si and every one else for that matter. I came back to edit it myself. I was just so disappointed, but there is no excuse for bad behaviour.

i dont see it as that bigger deal, the strongest song should win (whomever it comes from)
I miss the concerted band input like constrictor and raise your fist but equally i love the "anything goes" approach of hey stoopid, last temptation and brutal planet - the songs were awesome front to back.
When roxie and co worked as a band for those two albums (eyes and diamonds) i thought they were the weakest of his stuff since lace and whiskey! So i dont think having it as the core "band" helps or hinders - its about the songs plain and simple. As mentioned i have love W2MN , Paranormal and to a lesser extent i like detroit stories (still better than diamonds).
Dont get me wrong, i am intrigued to see what his band can come up with and i hope it is killer but stronest song should win.

Maaki wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 05, 2022 11:11 pm

Instead it's going to be another Bob Ezrin featuring Bob Ezrin's inflated ego record where some no name slinger plays Nita's solo - remotely in Nashville or wherever - and 7/10 songs are generic songs written to "a rock band" and Chuck had some (rejected) input on a bassline on two of them.

That’s my fear too. Especially after watching that band meeting where there was genuine excitement amongst all band members including Alice on the road band album. Irritating to say the least. I can see why Mike Bruce was having creative differences with Ezrin on Muscle of Love rehearsals.

Dannorama wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 07, 2022 7:39 pm

Wow. Alice Cooper fans sure like to squabble. Have any of you heard any of the new stuff yet? Me neither. How about we all call a truce until the new music is at least heard?

Nah, let Si sort through the carnage!!

Just the way things have been for a long time. wonder if this really is a fan forum at times.

killer wolf wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 10, 2022 5:28 pm

Just the way things have been for a long time. wonder if this really is a fan forum at times.

Agree ! Not that there is no room for critisism, but I never understood where this Ezrin-bashing comes from, especially if you see how Alice himself and Dennis speak about him... And Alice never disappointed me( well, maybe except for Acas, but ...wasn't that one without Ezrin on board )
the two last albums (Paranormal and Detroit Stories) were generally well received, so I have good hopes this could happen again !

patrick wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 11, 2022 1:49 pm

killer wolf wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 10, 2022 5:28 pm

Just the way things have been for a long time. wonder if this really is a fan forum at times.

Agree ! Not that there is no room for critisism, but I never understood where this Ezrin-bashing comes from, especially if you see how Alice himself and Dennis speak about him... And Alice never disappointed me( well, maybe except for Acas, but ...wasn't that one without Ezrin on board )
the two last albums (Paranormal and Detroit Stories) were generally well received, so I have good hopes this could happen again !

Ezrin has done plenty of work with other artists, too. I like Ezrin.

The point is that most of the albums these days are done remotely. Someone writes a song and it is offered to several artists or producers. Some producer artist or band happens to pick it up. The song is arranged and then singers and players do their part mostly remotely without ever seeing each other let alone sitting down for sessions. And there it is. There is no collaboration, no thoughts and ideas are being shared. Songs are just scores. And Ezrin will have his mates play the scores instead of Chuck, Nita et al. It is what Ezrin does. He thinks Denander is a better Alice Cooper guitarist than Nita is. See: Paranormal.

What we thought we had here was a band album where songs are also a process between the members of the band. This was completely offed by Ezrin doing Ezrin things on purpose and because he just can't let it be. Ezrin has always been like that and most of the time results are good in the 70's. But this project had potential to be something greater and the context is 2020's. If people want to like Ezrin records, like I do, that is one thing. Killing the one single last chance for a band record is something else.

The argument "best song wins" is just - sorry - plain stupid in this context. We will never know how the songs would have been after the process. So comparison to make the judgement of what songs are the best 10 is irrelevant. It can't be done.

The argument that we should wait and see how the record turns out is as stupid as the last one. We will never get the chance to hear how the road album with the band turned out, because Bob Ezrin robbed us of the chance. Forever.

What we will get is a "road record" that is like any other record. Hoo ray! I love me some Alice Cooper. But the potential was much more than that and something unique in 2022.