Mixed reactions

[Lucius Morthem]

I Thnk the same, I Hope ALice brings some trick out of the hat to be at the same level of The Crue Shows. Let's be honest, That show's gonna blew some minds away :D

[Toronto Bob]

>you have a real knack for drawing false equivalencies.

It isn't enough to say that. You have to prove it and as Shoesalesman pointed out, you were SO SHOCKED that you had to provide the link to the footage that caused you to be so outraged. There is a song that is kind of about that.

perhaps someone can translate this comment into english

[A_MichaelUK]

>perhaps someone can translate this comment into english

Is that the best you can do? Maybe you should delete that post and come up with something better.

[Toronto Bob]

>perhaps someone can translate this comment into english

Is that the best you can do? Maybe you should delete that post and come up with something better.

It's the only thing that was required. I have no idea what the comment was getting at. Something about me being shocked and shoesalesman pointed that out and there's a song about that. WTF kind of word salad is that? I don't recall expressing shock about Sixx's pathetic behaviour - just that he's a punk and it's so very easy for me not to buy a ticket to an AC/Crue show. No idea what you were going on about.

[A_MichaelUK]

>I have no idea what the comment was getting at. Something about me being shocked and shoesalesman pointed that out and there's a song about that.

Yes. It is called Sex, Death And Money and is by Alice Cooper whom you may have heard of.

> WTF kind of word salad is that? I don't recall expressing shock about Sixx's pathetic behaviour - just that he's a punk

What is so bad about being "a punk" though?

>and it's so very easy for me not to buy a ticket to an AC/Crue show. No idea what you were going on about.

That might be because you aren't as bright as I thought. I was pointing out that you would be turned off going to see them because of what he said (although if you had said that because of their music, that would be understandable).

[Devon]

We have video of Alice saying something that rhymes with "Maggots" on an officially released concert DVD which would have him plastered on every TMZ/Blabbermouth-like website if he said it today. Moral of the story, we've all probably said a word or words that were offensive in one way or the other. To begrudge a band because one guy said the N word going almost 20 years ago seems a bit overdoing it, IMHO.

[HORRORHOLIC]

What Nikki said was obviously offensive and wrong, but he has apologized for it saying he didn't mean it to be racist but was just trying to insult the guy. The security guard was beating up fans all night and Nikki snapped. It doesn't make what he did right but I don't think he's racist. I'm sure there are plenty of musicians we listen to that have said and done things just as offensive.

[Toronto Bob]

No

He may have apologized but a racist uses that word when angered, non-racists don't. Someone also mentioned that comment is old (I think it dates to 1996/97). It maybe a few years back but it's the ninties not the fifties and Sixx was a full grown adult when he said it - no excuses. Simple as that.

When you get angry at a person - do you hone in on that person's race? religion? sexual orientation? Or do you see them just as a person that has pissed you off? Your answer will tell you something about yourself.

That word has a terrible history and anyone who ignores that history is a racist and a dummy.

[pitkin88]

This tour would be the perfect forum to dispense with the same old songs and mix it up a bit. He has nothing to worry about with the promoters ( as some suggest ) as this is essentially a Motley Crue tour. Whatever he does wont affect anything. Tickets sales are probably mainly Crue fans with a lot of the hardcore Alice fans feeling out priced. I doubt there will be many casual fans that some seem to worry about. I'm not suggesting he performs Da Da in its entirety but a bunch of songs sorely need a rest. Alice could do with rolling the dice again rather than trot out 18, Black Widow, NMMNG again. That stuff is just auto pilot for him and must be boring as hell. There are other lesser heard classics that could replace these. Nothing to lose.

[Si]

This tour would be the perfect forum to dispense with the same old songs and mix it up a bit. He has nothing to worry about with the promoters ( as some suggest ) as this is essentially a Motley Crue tour. Whatever he does wont affect anything. Tickets sales are probably mainly Crue fans with a lot of the hardcore Alice fans feeling out priced. I doubt there will be many casual fans that some seem to worry about. I'm not suggesting he performs Da Da in its entirety but a bunch of songs sorely need a rest. Alice could do with rolling the dice again rather than trot out 18, Black Widow, NMMNG again. That stuff is just auto pilot for him and must be boring as hell. There are other lesser heard classics that could replace these. Nothing to lose.

But you are forgetting the main benefit he gets from such tours. Exposure to new people. He will go down better in front of Crue's audience if he plays his best known material. You want to play as many songs that the audience may know (from Radio mainly) as possible to maximise the possibility of people coming back to see him again, and this means all the 'greatest hits' have to be in the set.

[pitkin88]

This tour would be the perfect forum to dispense with the same old songs and mix it up a bit. He has nothing to worry about with the promoters ( as some suggest ) as this is essentially a Motley Crue tour. Whatever he does wont affect anything. Tickets sales are probably mainly Crue fans with a lot of the hardcore Alice fans feeling out priced. I doubt there will be many casual fans that some seem to worry about. I'm not suggesting he performs Da Da in its entirety but a bunch of songs sorely need a rest. Alice could do with rolling the dice again rather than trot out 18, Black Widow, NMMNG again. That stuff is just auto pilot for him and must be boring as hell. There are other lesser heard classics that could replace these. Nothing to lose.

But you are forgetting the main benefit he gets from such tours. Exposure to new people. He will go down better in front of Crue's audience if he plays his best known material. You want to play as many songs that the audience may know (from Radio mainly) as possible to maximise the possibility of people coming back to see him again, and this means all the 'greatest hits' have to be in the set.

Really? How big is his fan base going to grow thanks to this tour? Do you really expect to see his attendances to swell because of this tour? Adopting your philosophy he could play the whole Killer album with the hanging which would go down very well I would guess. It is one of his best known albums. Or BDB's in it's entirety. Throw in School's Out or Elected for the encore and you could please everyone. I'm assuming he needs no song padding as he will be doing a shorter set.

[Si]

Really? How big is his fan base going to grow thanks to this tour? Do you really expect to see his attendances to swell because of this tour? Adopting your philosophy he could play the whole Killer album with the hanging which would go down very well I would guess. It is one of his best known albums. Or BDB's in it's entirety. Throw in School's Out or Elected for the encore and you could please everyone. I'm assuming he needs no song padding as he will be doing a shorter set.

You are taking things to extremes.
You're also confusing albums with songs, which is kinda odd.

Generally, yes, this sort of tour historically has been good for ticket sales on future solo tours. It certainly isn't going to harm them as it's very unlikely Alice will do a bad show.

Alice doing all of Killer plus SO/Elected? Yes that could work. But most of the audience will not KNOW that is what he is doing as they don`t know half the songs on Killer anyway.
Recognizable songs give a casual rock fan an "in" into the performance, especially such iconic and instantly recognizable songs like SO and Poison. When someone recognizes a song they become more involved and are likely to enjoy the show more (and MAY come again or buy something). If you give them hit after hit, songs they know form radio and TV the overall effect is to make them realize how many AC songs they DO know and, hopefully, like. That can have a knock on effect to ticket sales and album sales. Why do you think 'Greatest Hits' and other compilations still sell? Because people recognize the songs on it, whereas they don't recognize anything on many normal albums. This setlist is the same thing.

Will the different be huge? probably not, but every little helps. You could argue that for every new "fan" gained one is probably lost somewhere, but at the very least it does reduce sales and keeps everything on an even keel.

A solo headlining tour is the only time to do 'killer' from start to finish as a far higher percentage of the audience will know all the songs and react to them. NOT on a guest slot or a festival bill.

Of course you know all this... It's common sense.

[pitkin88]

An album was just a suggestion. There are other classic songs that could be substituted. Every bands greatest hits is up there with their best sellers so what? Alice doesn't need any help as you suggest. He has been on this merry go round with touring for years and at this point really doesn't need the money. The tours generate around the same, the albums sell roughly the same. Ezrin and the kitchen sink that was WTMN2 sold roughly the same as the last albums. At this point he has plateaued. He will never be huge nor will he be forgotten and not be able to put bums on seats. Where is the artist integrity? Where are the chances? It has become very stale and could do with some shaking up. I find the hits thing to be one huge cop out.

[Si]

Every bands greatest hits is up there with their best sellers so what? Alice doesn't need any help as you suggest. He has been on this merry go round with touring for years and at this point really doesn't need the money. The tours generate around the same, the albums sell roughly the same. Ezrin and the kitchen sink that was WTMN2 sold roughly the same as the last albums. At this point he has plateaued. He will never be huge nor will he be forgotten and not be able to put bums on seats. Where is the artist integrity? Where are the chances? It has become very stale and could do with some shaking up. I find the hits thing to be one huge cop out.

That's all pretty much true.
And he's done it by doing setlists that feature mainly the big hits.
As I say, for every person you lose, for whatever reason, you gain one by doing this sort of tour and setlist.
To do a setlist which 50% of teh audience doesn't know is, unfortunately a risk, and goes against tried and trusted wisdom which has served him for many years now.
It's not good for the real fans, but it's better business over all, unfortunately.

[A_MichaelUK]

>I find the hits thing to be one huge cop out.

A "cop out" of what? What is your reason then? You really need to try and put yourself in someone else's position (I know it is hard, but try). So many people buy tickets to see bands they only know 'the famous songs' of, although you may not believe that. For better or worse, Alice wants to please those people as much as he wants to please the hard - core fans and please himself as well. You really must try and understand that, unfortunately, too many casual fans just don't want to hear too much unfamiliar material. It is far too easy for you to know what's best for him or the audience but you can't do that. For the most part, they don't want unfamiliar new material and they don't want unfamiliar old material. If I go and see a band I only have a few albums of, I want to hear stuff I know (which is the stuff that made me buy a ticket in the first place) and as some artists will tell you, playing too much unfamiliar material is a risk they don't want to take. Sometimes, it is as frustrating for them as it is for you but you have the luxury of being frustrated as you sit by your keyboard and type. You are not the one taking any risk and I totally understand that you stay away because there is no risk. I also agree that the set - list could be a little more adventurous here and there and it is a debate that has been had many times (for instance in the thread about the last British tour) but considering the demands of the hard - core fans, considering the demands of the casual fans, considering his own demands and considering which songs (and which group of songs) work well, I think he mostly mostly makes the right decisions. It is what it is, but to ignore the casual fan (as opposed to the "super fan") is a mistake and the reason you're making that mistake is because you're not in either his position or that of a casual fan either. It isn't that I don't agree you with you, but having seen the reality, Si and I understand a bit more than you do about why things are the way they are.

[pitkin88]

Who knows what percentage of the songs the casual fan knows or even the more fervent fan. I could maybe only name a few songs from ACAS. While I respect your opinion if what you are saying he might as well stop making records and just be an oldies act. You are lucky to find more than a couple of songs from his later albums played live. What's the point in recording them?

[Si]

You are lucky to find more than a couple of songs from his later albums played live. What's the point in recording them?

Because he WANTS to. It's what he does and has done for 40+ years.

[Toronto Bob]

I think an artist wittingly or not, conditions their audience over the years. When Zappa toured in the sixties and seventies and eighties, audiences didn't know what they would be getting. Sometimes you may get a few of the better known songs but more likely you get an evening with 50%-60% unreleased material. Sometimes it was a complete evening with 100% unreleased material. Sometimes it was instrumental versions of well known songs or maybe a ska-version or an oldie. His fans were A-Okay with that. The people who came to here Montana or Dinah Mo Humm either left disappointed or develeoped a new appreciation for the artist they thought they knew.

Rush used to play almost the entire new album they were touring with - the audience came to expect a lot of new material with each new tour. When they came back in 2002 with a new album and tour, while glad to have them back touring, many fans were disappointed with only 3 songs from the new album making it's way into the set list. Their latest tour? Played The entire new album in the second set and the fans thought is was their best album and tour in ages (certainly since 1996)

Alice has settled into a comfortable position and an understandable one. He has a great back catalogue that the casual listener will enjoy. So he now plays to the casual fan and the fans who feeel Alice can do no wrong. Not a lot of room for a more discerning fan. I think his album releases reflect this as well.

[A_MichaelUK]

>Who knows what percentage of the songs the casual fan knows

Those would be the songs they hear on 'classic rock' radio or in commercials or films.

>or even the more fervent fan.

By definition they would known all of them surely.

>I could maybe only name a few songs from ACAS.

Exactly. That makes you a casual fan of that album. Do you see how this works?

>What's the point in recording them?

He wants to and in fact as you often do, you stumble across an important point without realizing it and which relates to the other thread. If piracy continues they way it is, "What's the point in recording" any new songs? That would be for the other thread, though.

[A_MichaelUK]

>When Zappa toured in the sixties and seventies and eighties, audiences didn't know what they would be getting.

Although there is some truth to that, I don't think that is a fair example. For one thing, Zappa made his reputation on the 'looseness' (I can't think of a better word) of the sixties - and also I don't think he was ever influenced by what his audience wanted to hear and I doubt he cared either. Also, we're really talking about Alice's shows since say 2002 so that's another reason why it isn't a fair comparison. The sixties and the audience at that time were different to the millenium and the audiences of the modern era (look around you - it's pretty undeniable).

>Sometimes it was a complete evening with 100% unreleased material.

Exactly. Not only do I think his audience at that time were more open to that, I doubt he would have cared if they were not.

> Their latest tour? Played The entire new album in the second set and the fans thought is was their best album and tour in ages (certainly since 1996)

Again, their audience is pretty different to Alice's audience (although there is some overlap obviously).

>the fans who feeel Alice can do no wrong.

I think there are less of those than you think.

> Not a lot of room for a more discerning fan.

I don't disagree - I never have and if people stay away that is their choice. They may regret it when he eventually does retire.