Touring band to feature on next album!

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Ted Sallis
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Re: Touring band to feature on next album!

Post by Ted Sallis » Thu May 19, 2022 10:59 am

Maaki wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 8:14 pm
Parish wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 7:21 pm
Based on the new material released over the past 22 years the new record will blow chunks...
If it wasn't for the ACG songs written in the 70's he'd have no one show up at his concerts.
If it wasn't for Poison he'd have no one show up at his concerts. And that my friend unlike your statement, is a fact.
If it wasn't for the ACG songs written in the 70's, the OG would more than likely be little more than a footnote in (musical) history, and AC solo quite likely never would have come into being.

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Re: Touring band to feature on next album!

Post by Parish » Thu May 19, 2022 1:03 pm

Bingo Ted!

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Re: Touring band to feature on next album!

Post by Maaki » Thu May 19, 2022 3:33 pm

Ted Sallis wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 10:59 am
Maaki wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 8:14 pm
Parish wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 7:21 pm
Based on the new material released over the past 22 years the new record will blow chunks...
If it wasn't for the ACG songs written in the 70's he'd have no one show up at his concerts.
If it wasn't for Poison he'd have no one show up at his concerts. And that my friend unlike your statement, is a fact.
If it wasn't for the ACG songs written in the 70's, the OG would more than likely be little more than a footnote in (musical) history, and AC solo quite likely never would have come into being.

Ted
Sure. And they didn't carry over far to the eighties. Without Trash there would have been no shows in 90's and further. Without the 70's songs there would be no Trash. Without both there probably would be no tour in 2022. Or 2012. Or 2002.

I am not judging the quality of the songs here btw so please breathe in before you turn blue Parish :)

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Re: Touring band to feature on next album!

Post by Parish » Thu May 19, 2022 4:14 pm

All good points coming from different perspectives....And I respect all of them.

As a 50+ year fan I haven't been blown away by anything in many, many decades. Sure there are the occasional brief glimmers of hope sprinkled here and there but for the most part its been underwhelming material. A touring band of solid players doesn't mean they are solid song writers. I cant name one song written by any of them previously that I've even heard of let alone it being a classic or even a hit.
Meanwhile the gents who wrote the classics are either completely omitted from projects or tossed crumbs to participate here and there. Some idiot screaming, "Play Poooooooison!" isn't representative of the true fans of the ACG...

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Re: Touring band to feature on next album!

Post by nurserozetta » Sat May 21, 2022 4:15 am

Lets be honest here most bands have trouble continungly release great output . lets look at some of my favorite bands

Metallica , peaked some say Black - I say AJFA but since then there output is fairly stock -13 of 16 songs at their last concert was black or earlier

Queensryche - Peaked Empire - 2 versions of the band running around now playing only songs from Empire or earlier dedspite them releasing several new albums

U2 - Peaked Actung Baby - output since then has been mostly poor

Prince - peaked around sign of the times and nothing since then was ever commercial or fan favorite

Pearl Jam is another - earlier albums head and shoulders above recent efforts - well over half their setlists are from their first 3 albums

I see Alice as no exception , intial output was excellent recent times following a formula - thing is its very hard for rock bands to get new fans these days so they play to the long timers who insist their best work was their intial efforts when they became fans

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Re: Touring band to feature on next album!

Post by Si » Sat May 21, 2022 7:46 am

nurserozetta wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 4:15 am
Lets be honest here most bands have trouble continungly release great output . lets look at some of my favorite bands
You are absolutely right. It's almost impossible for bands to better their early albums for several reasons, nostalgia being a big one. The most you can usually hope for is a really good album, but it's unlikely it will ever eclipse the ones that made their name. Sure, the die hard fans know the newer material as well but the majority of the world want the early material.
To add to your examples (again IMHO):

Kiss: Who truly wants to hear that much from the 80s/90s Kiss?

AC/DC: no one cares about 90% of their output since Back In Black.

Guns'n'Roses: Appetite or nothing, as proved by the clamoring for the originals to reform.

Iron Maiden: Will never really better the first three albums.

Deep Purple: The 70s albums are it.

Ozzy: Pretty much the first two solo albums (plus Sabbath covers).

UFO: Could basically play 'Strangers In The Night' forever.

Robert Plant: No one cares about his solo material at all!

And you could go on and on. Every act from the 70s or 80s basically, in any genre as well. That isn't to say that some of these bands haven't done some good albums since their heyday (the absolutely have in most instances), just that the classics will always be the classics and are what the majority of their career is build on.
How many bands can you name that their 10th album is the absolute classic that supersedes everything they have done previously? Any?

So, to get back on topic, having a go at Alice for riding on the 70s albums is a little unfair. EVERYONE does it. They can't help but do it if they want to survive. It's extremely rare that a band has the pulling power and the courage to go out and play their new album in full. You have to a lot of faith in your audience, your material, and your level of success to be able to get away with it (Maiden and Rush spring to mind) - as most of the casual audience will be turned off by it. And in most cases that will effect your pulling power next time out.
An example being Bowie who once proclaimed the his then current tour (was it Glass Spider?) would be the last time he would be playing the "hits" from the 70s... and changed his mind just a couple of years later! You just can't do that and expect to continue at the same level you are at.
Look at Kiss taking the makeup off? They slowly went down and down and had to bring it all back.

It just doesn't work unless you accept you have to play the classics, and they are all very old songs. You might write better songs (in your mind) but that simply doesn't matter in the real world. They will always want to hear School's Out. Love Gun, It's So Easy or anything from the Bon Scott years. Just how it is. Condemning Alice for it is just a waste of time. Dennis/Blue Coupe do exactly the same thing.

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Re: Touring band to feature on next album!

Post by The son of Don Quijote » Sat May 21, 2022 8:33 am

I found a rare exception. Rain Dogs is a 10th album by Tom Waits and often cited as his most brilliant masterpiece.

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Re: Touring band to feature on next album!

Post by Maaki » Sat May 21, 2022 11:09 am

Well put you people above.

I also think that especially in rock music as well as later rap etc. there is a certain artistic edge that is often lost when age and wisdom start to kick in. Perhaps there is a little responsibility (for the other people working with you) mixed in as well and perhaps even some extend of getting quite comfortable in five star hotels. Five star hotels are excellent at killing rebellion :) . Unless you can't handle the change and feel the need to wreck the hotel room in question. Either because you have issues recognizing or dealing with the reality or as a publicity stunt because you think your fans have issues with the reality. I am not saying this to knock *anyone* but rather this is something I have thought applies fairly widely to rockers and bands. Once the flame is out it seldom fires up again.

Much of popular music is about generational experiences. It is even there in the lyrics and especially in the time frame relevant to AC - the band and the solo artist. I'm eighteen and this generation is this and my generation is going to do that.

Youth and all the good and all the bad associated with it can't be brought back once you are in your fourties. You can pretend to stay there but you can't get back there.

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Re: Touring band to feature on next album!

Post by Saint&Sinner » Sun May 22, 2022 7:17 pm

While i agree to a limited degree with what you all say about classic albums etc. I find Alice's finest material to be from constrictor up to brutal planet - and i do have a serious soft spot for W2MN
For me raise your fist, hey stoopid, last temptation and brutal planet are all top 10 alice albums.
Alice did used to push his latest album - up until brutal planet, then after that he chickened out and only played 2 or 3 from the latest album. Its a shame as most people are happy as long as they get the 3 or 4 hits they know and will happily gobble up the rest regardless.
I think Alice could easily push his new albums more (4 or 5 could easily fit in) but i appreciate he has a very long career and is actively trying to keep people happy by pulling from different eras. im happy these days he at least pushes the 80s stuff much more. I think the setlist on the black eyes tour was possibly the best he has ever done!

Many bands have successfully pushed the later material and often reinvented themselves around it. Accept play 80% of material from the mark tornillo years, this material for my money is their best too. Dio did some of his best material on the heaven and hell album (the devil you know) which was literally a few months before he died. Metal Church play almost exclusively mike howe material (especially material since their reunion - RIP mike howe) Saxon heavily push their latest material and likewise i love their latest stuff, likewise for gary numan and paradise lost both excelling at their new material and delivering career best, Amorphis easily delivered their best albums ever with Queen of time from 2018 and again heavily push them. Hardcore superstar easily delivered one of their best ever with Abracadabra. Fear Factory, Garbage, Helloween, korn, levellers there are many, many bands who push their latest albums and deliver career bests.

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Re: Touring band to feature on next album!

Post by Daggers & Contracts » Sun May 22, 2022 11:52 pm

The son of Don Quijote wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 8:33 am
I found a rare exception. Rain Dogs is a 10th album by Tom Waits and often cited as his most brilliant masterpiece.
The Trilogy was awesome! Including "Swordfish Trombones" & "Franks Wild Years".
He has never ceased to amaze! As far as touring he has rarely toured.
I saw him once which was turned into the "Big Time" movie.
Pretty good but, still had some short set pieces included like in "Good To See You Again..."
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Re: Touring band to feature on next album!

Post by del » Mon May 23, 2022 6:50 am

The point about music being generational is spot on. There are numerous research papers out there which talk about the tribalism, influence and impact of popular music on the maturing minds of teenagers. If something makes a huge impact on you between around 12-15 it becomes part of you forever and you cannot get the same emotions once you have matured. Sure, you can like the later stuff and become a fan of something else but nothing comes close to the impact (first love?) on a young mind.

I’m a fan of 50 years in about two weeks time. It started at age 12 with School’s Out and the rebellious feeling the song and Alice’s persona gave me. Killer, B$B and the School’s Out albums will never be beaten for me as they are a major part of growing up.

I met a friend a few years later and Department of Youth and Only Women both got him into music at the age of 13. He had never heard of Alice Cooper before and fell in love with WTMN, GTH and L&W. He likes ACG albums, hates the blackout era and is a huge fan of W2MN.

I also had a much younger workmate a few years ago who joined around the age of 13 at Poison, having never heard Alice or payed much attention to rock music before. Again, it was the music and image of Alice on the video that got him. He has exactly the same emotional attachment to Trash, Hey Stoopid and particularly TLT as I do for SO, Killer and B$B.

When you think about it, these are three of the big entry points for AC fans. I’d say 18 is the other major one. Two are Alice solo and WTMN and Trash are very comfortably bigger sellers than anything ACG even with the sales boost these albums gave them. The fan base was built by the ACG but extended considerably and then renewed by Alice himself.

I personally like to hear the fans scream “play Poison” because without them and everyone else from a later era I genuinely don’t think the ACG music would have the same profile. He certainly wouldn’t have half the audience he does in Europe, particularly eastern Europe without it.

I have another friend from the US. Aerosmith is his love since Sweet Emotion. He also likes Alice Cooper but doesn’t have anything like the same connection. Interestingly, he doesn’t have a favourite period but does have favourite albums. Killer, B$B, WTMN, TLT, DD and W2MN. Maybe you can be more balanced in your views when you don’t have that major emotional connection to an album or period.

As for the “true fan” label, what does it mean anyway? Longevity? Doesn’t matter when you join, if you have that feeling then you are a real fan.

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Re: Touring band to feature on next album!

Post by Parish » Mon May 23, 2022 1:11 pm

My entire point here is that the remaining members of the ACG can write a better album than Alice's current touring band so why not do that instead of the rehashing the same 'ol crap year after year?

I'm not debating nostalgia as that is a very strong aphrodisiac...

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Re: Touring band to feature on next album!

Post by Phil1985 » Mon May 23, 2022 8:05 pm

It pains me to say it but I’m not sure I agree that the original members would be able to write a better album with Alice than the current touring band.
They have been recording and writing together again since W2MN and if you were to create an album of purely the ACG songs from W2MN, Paranormal and Detroit stories, can you honestly say you’d have been blown away by it?
There are flashes of something really cool, when hell comes home for example but can you imagine the nostalgic hard on you’d have had with the promise of an album from the original band and then how underwhelmed you would have been in this case?
An album from the original band would have to be mind blowing, otherwise the anticipation and excitement we felt would make even a good album seem slightly disappointing.
I say give us the dark groove of Beasto with some over the top Nita solos and the Alice magic and let’s see where we end up.

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Re: Touring band to feature on next album!

Post by Parish » Mon May 23, 2022 8:37 pm

Whoever writes it If they name the record, "Nostalgic Hard On" they cannot miss... :)

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Re: Touring band to feature on next album!

Post by Daggers & Contracts » Tue May 24, 2022 3:27 am

Parish wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 8:37 pm
Whoever writes it If they name the record, "Nostalgic Hard On" they cannot miss... :)
Include a "Free" sample of Viagra & it's Gold!
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Re: Touring band to feature on next album!

Post by lordcatfish » Tue May 24, 2022 5:29 am

I think Ryan, Tommy and Chuck have all shown enough on previous albums / with their other projects to suggest they could write another great album with Alice (especially Ryan). Nita I'm less sold on, but perhaps she'll work well in conjunction with others, and her lead guitar work will be an asset I'm sure.

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Re: Touring band to feature on next album!

Post by Phil1985 » Tue May 24, 2022 8:00 am

If it ends up being called
muscle of love 2 the nostalgic hard on
Then I’m claiming royalty cheques!!!
You are all witnesses to this!!!
And now never to post again, as I’ll never top that……..

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Re: Touring band to feature on next album!

Post by MacQueen » Thu May 26, 2022 2:48 pm

Si, Kiss from 88-94 was awesome. They sounded like an actual band. 70's Kiss may be iconic, but it's also overrated.

As for Alice, here's the thing...this isn't going to be nice or comfortable but it's going to be said. For the past nine or ten years Alice has relied too heavily upon nostalgia. He talks about 1971 and Detroit like it's the ultimate golden year and the ultimate place. He's so hung up on those concepts that I really have no hope of hearing anything fresh, modern, or even exciting from Alice in the future.

Musically, I think he's washed up because he keeps returning to the nostalgia well to please the fans who can't get over the original group or seem to can't live outside of 1973. If everything from here on out has to have that oh so great 'classic' sound, then what's the point?

Time's moved on. It's not 1971 anymore and someone desperately needs to tell Alice that the next time he's in the studio.

Sure, some of the material from Paranormal and Detroit Stories the OG contributed have been good. Perhaps if Paranormal were a straight ACG record it would be better to listen to instead of feeling embarrased for even listening to parrts of it. The same for Detroit Stories, which was a missed opportunity because the covers aren't needed. Here's looking at you Detroit CIty '21....I hate you, I hate you with every fiber of my being...if I could force choke you for being such a crappy, unwanted, never to be loved song I would. The 2003 version is far superior version and you should never be made into existence. Same for you Hanging By A Thread.

Ultimately, this is where Alice is now. Musical changes NEED to be made. But I fear it's never going to happen and we're just going to get rehashes from the previous decade. More covers, more bad songs, more of same setlists that really do nothing to motivate me to go to concerts.

(For a full rant of Queensryche and the absolute douchery of Todd La Torre....just don't get me started.)

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Re: Touring band to feature on next album!

Post by Maaki » Fri May 27, 2022 1:28 pm

Alice is always hung up on one concept. I personally think it is not him as such, it is the press conference Alice on a cruice control going through the motions. Journalists keep on asking about things that he fed their colleagues earlier and he keeps on repeating the same lines. I think it is only natural after decades and decades. And the concept of the Hollywood Vampires did not make him less concentrated on his early years so that's what things have been revolving around for the past decade with some variance on the exact topic.

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Re: Touring band to feature on next album!

Post by Parish » Fri May 27, 2022 2:31 pm

The ALICE COOPER GROUP was at its greatest when they were just writing songs and let the listener decide if it was offensive or objectionable. When Vince went solo he became a self proclaimed cartoon villain and in his own words, compromised his social position with his cool-ativity suffering too...

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