The last temptation with bonustracks

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Saint&Sinner
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Re: The last temptation with bonustracks

Post by Saint&Sinner » Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:42 pm

That's NOT 100% true. The latest WB reissues were waiting for approval from the management so they (sometimes) do have to approve releases.
i am not sure on this,
however i know when i have spoken to some smaller record labels and they actively tried to do reissues of several alice albums and were refused permission. the way it was phrased was that the alice camp refused it (although not outright stated) with no reason given.
But if these demos/lost tracks appear on you tube the alice camp/legal team pounce on it to get them taken down in no time.
if they have no interest in releasing them why force take downs of them?

I personally do not think it is all alice or all the record label. i think the fault probably lies somewhere with both of them.

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Re: The last temptation with bonustracks

Post by Ted Sallis » Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:02 am

Saint&Sinner wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:42 pm
That's NOT 100% true. The latest WB reissues were waiting for approval from the management so they (sometimes) do have to approve releases.
i am not sure on this,
however i know when i have spoken to some smaller record labels and they actively tried to do reissues of several alice albums and were refused permission. the way it was phrased was that the alice camp refused it (although not outright stated) with no reason given.
But if these demos/lost tracks appear on you tube the alice camp/legal team pounce on it to get them taken down in no time.
if they have no interest in releasing them why force take downs of them?
I personally do not think it is all alice or all the record label. i think the fault probably lies somewhere with both of them.
Referring back to part of a lengthy comment/reply Si posted on page 1 of this thread: From 2000 and BP it's even more fractured with several different companies generally owning different albums, and it's only the last two or three recording Alive maybe have more control over (although I think I was told EarMusic owns those as well).

So you might be right in inferring that Alice does or may have some control over his latest recordings, but mestreech referred to WB as being the Company that was 'waiting for approval from the Management'. If that's true, what happened to that 'approval'? Are they still waiting or has something else stopped or delayed their release?

Ted

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Re: The last temptation with bonustracks

Post by mestreech » Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:40 am

Ted Sallis wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:20 pm
mestreech wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 2:58 am
The latest WB reissues were waiting for approval from the management so they (sometimes) do have to approve releases.
I too would like to know where this info. was obtained from.

Ted
I have a source at WB who is working there.
If you believe it our not I trust him for telling the truth.

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Re: The last temptation with bonustracks

Post by Toronto Bob » Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:22 am

mestreech wrote:
Sun Nov 14, 2021 3:08 am
The last Temptation cd will be reissued with 4 live bonustracks on 20th november on the BAD REPUTATION label.
Bonustracks are :
11 No More Mister Nice Guy (Live Birmingham 1989)
12 Ballad Of Dwight Fry (Live Birmingham 1989)
13 Welcome To My Nightmare (Live Birmingham 1989)
14 Cold Ethyl (Live Cincinnati 1987)
The one track I would like to hear from those bonus tracks, is Cold Ethyl. I don't have the EPs that had CE on them and I like the mix of the few tracks from the Cincinnati show that have been officially released compared to the radio show unofficial releases. All copies I have of the complete Cincinnati show, the mix is not good. One guitarist (can't recall which one) is buried.

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Re: The last temptation with bonustracks

Post by Si » Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:31 am

mestreech wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:40 am
Ted Sallis wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:20 pm
mestreech wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 2:58 am
The latest WB reissues were waiting for approval from the management so they (sometimes) do have to approve releases.
I too would like to know where this info. was obtained from.

Ted
I have a source at WB who is working there.
If you believe it our not I trust him for telling the truth.
If they are waiting for approval it could be two things:
1. They are asking as a courtesy, which is the right thing to do of course. I know in the past some releases have been submitted to Alive etc for approval as a courtesy rather then any legal necessity. They ask for the package to be checked for errors etc. I think Classicks might have been one such occasion. There was another one whihc escapes me right now but I remember Renfield mentioning something like "at least they sent us a copy to check and changed a few minor things because of that, but we still had no real say on it actually being released", paraphrasing of course.

2. They need approval on something other then the core music content ie photos or text. It's not all just about the music included. Every part of a package needs approval from whoever owns the rights to that part be it - audio, video or photographs and text.

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Re: The last temptation with bonustracks

Post by mestreech » Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:36 am

Si wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:31 am
mestreech wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:40 am
Ted Sallis wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:20 pm


I too would like to know where this info. was obtained from.

Ted
I have a source at WB who is working there.
If you believe it our not I trust him for telling the truth.
If they are waiting for approval it could be two things:
1. They are asking as a courtesy, which is the right thing to do of course. I know in the past some releases have been submitted to Alive etc for approval as a courtesy rather then any legal necessity. They ask for the package to be checked for errors etc. I think Classicks might have been one such occasion. There was another one whihc escapes me right now but I remember Renfield mentioning something like "at least they sent us a copy to check and changed a few minor things because of that, but we still had no real say on it actually being released", paraphrasing of course.

2. They need approval on something other then the core music content ie photos or text. It's not all just about the music included. Every part of a package needs approval from whoever owns the rights to that part be it - audio, video or photographs and text.
Si, that is a very good explanation.

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Re: The last temptation with bonustracks

Post by Ted Sallis » Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:50 pm

Thank you for your informative replies, Si and mestreech.

Ted

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Re: The last temptation with bonustracks

Post by RemarkablyInsincere » Fri Dec 10, 2021 5:39 pm

mestreech wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:24 am
If a recordcompany can't make profit on two of the best Alice Cooperband albums with a live concert there must be something wrong with them.
You'd probably be surprised how low the numbers would be for albums that have been released multiple times.

They might not lose money, but they might not make much if any either. It's simply not worth their time especially in an era where some people won't even consider buying a CD anymore.
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Re: The last temptation with bonustracks

Post by Saint&Sinner » Fri Dec 10, 2021 6:38 pm

You'd probably be surprised how low the numbers would be for albums that have been released multiple times
maybe because only a very slim margin of people want to buy reissues of albums with nothing of worth on it. And if they still make some money (given how often they are done suggests they do make some money) then clearly the numbers are still justified and if you factor in people who would buy a good reissue (despite already owning it) maybe there is allot of money being left on the table.

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Re: The last temptation with bonustracks

Post by RemarkablyInsincere » Mon Dec 13, 2021 3:14 pm

Saint&Sinner wrote:
Fri Dec 10, 2021 6:38 pm
You'd probably be surprised how low the numbers would be for albums that have been released multiple times
maybe because only a very slim margin of people want to buy reissues of albums with nothing of worth on it. And if they still make some money (given how often they are done suggests they do make some money) then clearly the numbers are still justified and if you factor in people who would buy a good reissue (despite already owning it) maybe there is allot of money being left on the table.
I'm a big Alice fan but I really don't want to buy these albums *again* just to get some bonus tracks that are probably already in circulation. I bought the deluxe versions, I bought the DVD-Audio versions, I bought the Audio Fidelity gold versions. Enough already.
"Golly gee it's wrong to be so guilty..."

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Re: The last temptation with bonustracks

Post by del » Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:40 pm

RemarkablyInsincere wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 3:14 pm
Saint&Sinner wrote:
Fri Dec 10, 2021 6:38 pm
You'd probably be surprised how low the numbers would be for albums that have been released multiple times
maybe because only a very slim margin of people want to buy reissues of albums with nothing of worth on it. And if they still make some money (given how often they are done suggests they do make some money) then clearly the numbers are still justified and if you factor in people who would buy a good reissue (despite already owning it) maybe there is allot of money being left on the table.
I'm a big Alice fan but I really don't want to buy these albums *again* just to get some bonus tracks that are probably already in circulation. I bought the deluxe versions, I bought the DVD-Audio versions, I bought the Audio Fidelity gold versions. Enough already.

Precisely - and I’ve bought way less than that. Keep moving forward with new releases and touring and I’m more than fine with that.

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Re: The last temptation with bonustracks

Post by lordcatfish » Sat Jan 01, 2022 2:39 pm

Sorry to bump an old(ish) topic, but just had a thought. Ozzy recently reissued some of his albums on digital services with some hard to find bonuses (eg No Place for Angels on Down to Earth, demos on No More Tears). As far as I know, there's no physical copies of these reissues with these bonuses tracks available.

Could this be a more viable option for Alice if the primary concern was the cost of producing / distributing physical copies / sales figures?

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Re: The last temptation with bonustracks

Post by mestreech » Sat Jan 01, 2022 3:27 pm

That is a GREAT thought LORDCATFISH

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Re: The last temptation with bonustracks

Post by Saint&Sinner » Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:42 pm

im not a fan of digital reissues but if this was the only way then i would of course have it away
Tbh im not sure how well the digital reissues would sell as most do not buy digital albums but stream on amazon music or spotify etc. That's why most record labels seem to go to town on the physical reissues and entice all the fans to buy them.

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Re: The last temptation with bonustracks

Post by badreputation » Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:43 am

Hello everyone, I'm Eric Coubard, Bad Reputation's boss. I have read your comments and I wanted to make these clarifications. This reissue is a Holy Grail for me. I've been an Alice Cooper fan since I was 12 years old (I'm 64) and the fact that Sony agreed to reissue The Last Temptation made me very happy. On the first deal two years ago, the bonus material requested was a second live CD with LIVE A RADIO BROADCAST 1991 (EPIC esca5960-Japan), some tracks from LIVE AT CINCINNATI GARDENS MARCH 6TH 1987 and other tracks from LIVE AT BIRMINGHAM 1989. They were refused to me except two titles of the Brodcoast. When I submitted my project to do an artwork enriched with the comic book, I was asked to respect the original. What was the point? I contacted a friend who gave me the contact of Shep Gordon who put me in touch with Toby Mamis. He loved my artwork but disputed the rights of the titles with Sony. So we agreed on the titles that are on this reissue and the artwork was approved by everyone. But it took two years! Because Toby Mamis was busy with the release of Detroit Stories. So, one can always argue without knowing the real difficulties of this exercise, especially when you are a small independent label. Toby Mamis confided to me that he didn't always see the re-releases of Alice Cooper's works and he thanked me for contacting him and for being patient. There are rights to ask for, advances to make. It's not a supermarket you go shopping in. Personally, I love the work that has been done. It's a sumptuous digipack with a 22-page booklet...and I'm very proud of it. Thanks for reading! Long Live Alice !

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Re: The last temptation with bonustracks

Post by wind_up_toy » Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:45 pm

badreputation wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:43 am
Hello everyone, I'm Eric Coubard, Bad Reputation's boss. I have read your comments and I wanted to make these clarifications. This reissue is a Holy Grail for me. I've been an Alice Cooper fan since I was 12 years old (I'm 64) and the fact that Sony agreed to reissue The Last Temptation made me very happy. On the first deal two years ago, the bonus material requested was a second live CD with LIVE A RADIO BROADCAST 1991 (EPIC esca5960-Japan), some tracks from LIVE AT CINCINNATI GARDENS MARCH 6TH 1987 and other tracks from LIVE AT BIRMINGHAM 1989. They were refused to me except two titles of the Brodcoast. When I submitted my project to do an artwork enriched with the comic book, I was asked to respect the original. What was the point? I contacted a friend who gave me the contact of Shep Gordon who put me in touch with Toby Mamis. He loved my artwork but disputed the rights of the titles with Sony. So we agreed on the titles that are on this reissue and the artwork was approved by everyone. But it took two years! Because Toby Mamis was busy with the release of Detroit Stories. So, one can always argue without knowing the real difficulties of this exercise, especially when you are a small independent label. Toby Mamis confided to me that he didn't always see the re-releases of Alice Cooper's works and he thanked me for contacting him and for being patient. There are rights to ask for, advances to make. It's not a supermarket you go shopping in. Personally, I love the work that has been done. It's a sumptuous digipack with a 22-page booklet...and I'm very proud of it. Thanks for reading! Long Live Alice !
Good work Eric!

I have this release and can testify that it's nicely presented. I especially like the artwork used on the CD (that also featured on the It's Me 12" picture disc).
Visit my fan site: http://www.welcometomynightmare.co.uk

That's a polite request not an order

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Re: The last temptation with bonustracks

Post by Saint&Sinner » Sun Jan 09, 2022 2:01 am

I have seen the booklet images on your site and they are indeed lovely and i appreciate you have done this from a passionate place. As mentioned previously it is the lack of effort on the management/record label side that is frustrating. It seems crazy that this took 2 years for the art to be approved!


I'm curious why did you want to go down the live track route? did you ever consider asking for demos or the like? did they say why they refused your original request for the live broadcast?

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