Re-evaluating Alice

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del
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Re-evaluating Alice

Post by del » Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:13 am

It’s been quiet on here for a while so I thought I’d fill some space, reflect on my own Alice journey a bit and ask a question.

Anyone bought an album by another artist which made you re-evaluate Alice and why you were a fan?

It’s happened a couple of times for me but the first was in 1976 when I bought Goes to Hell on the day of release. While I was in the record store I saw the first Ramones album for the first time and it struck me the same way the LITD cover had when I first saw that. A real confident pose with an attitude and edge which shouted at you. I bought it on impulse and was desperate to play both when I got home.

I played GTH two or three times all the way through and enjoyed it a lot. After WTMN it wasn’t unexpected and it was clearly going in a softer direction. I wasn’t nuts about that but was still happy.

I then put the Ramones on and got exactly the same feeling I had when I bought my first Alice album,Killer, in 72. It grabbed me by the throat and didn’t let lo until the end. I must have played it four or five times over the next day and for the first time it challenged me about being an Alice fan.

I was only 15 but I realised that this was the reaction to the current state of music that I had read about in Sounds and that Alice was already in a completely different generation. Alice was showbiz and safety and the Ramones were doing something Alice Cooper had done only 5 years earlier. Made me really question everything and at this point I realised that this fan thing was deeper than I thought, I was a diehard and was with Alice for the long haul.

77 saw me buying Sex Pistols, the Damned etc. and then rushing out to buy Lace and Whiskey. The gap was getting bigger and I was getting worried. If it carried on like this I’d probably still be there when he released his first duets album with Barry Manilow. Thank god for the changes which came over the next few years.

Any experiences to share folks?

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Re: Re-evaluating Alice

Post by padre_sliprat » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:49 am

I watched and listened as Alice matured then attempted to regress. He might have become one of the great crooners of our time had he followed the adult contemporary path. We will never know.
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Re: Re-evaluating Alice

Post by patrick » Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:42 am

yes padre, we will never know. But, would we still be here if Alice had become that crooner... Perhaps "Alice" is the sum of image, history, music, lyrics and so on.. The image alone has somewhat changed along the way, so has the music but there is enough left (imo) to keep us here.. For me personally I compair - inevitably- to the changes( pun intended) Bowie went through. I kind a lost him during his Berlin period (Low, Lodger and Heroes) but still kept an eye on him with respect and enjoyed his short "come-back". I never lost "faith" in Alice and there is only a limited number of songs I would rather forget about .
I would say Alice aged rather gracefully and is still making good music ( paranormal and detroit stories fulfilled my expectations and where not "the albums too much..." if you know what I mean..
you really wouldn't understand..

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Re: Re-evaluating Alice

Post by MacQueen » Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:09 pm

For me, the rose tinted glasses came off after W2MN.

Im sick and tired of the covers, the barely decent albums, and the bar bands. I remember when Alice was unafraid and importantly...UNAPOLOGETIC. Im sick and tired of him talking about Detroit as if it was the american Shangra -La....I'm sick and tired of Detroit in general, and Im sick and tired of the fans basting in this current 'era' as if it's another golden age.

Im sorry for being so negative but let's face it: It's basically the fans fault for enabling Alice at this stage. Not to be cruel but why stop now? Give him a bottle of bud since you're all so fond of him recreating and revisiting 1971 so much. I apologize but Alice today...2021 Alice? He's embarrassing, he makes me sick to my stomach.

The past decade could have had so much potential too. W2MN was probably his last good record. Say what you will about it but it was thought provoking at the very least and it was a decent sequel to WTMN. I know that 'Alice is a legend and he can do whatever he pleases' blah blah blah but have any of you considered that he's made nothing but bad decisions from 2012 up until now?

And don't tell me there's no where to go but up from here. The tank is empty, there's nothing left. Alice is washed up. He's nothing but a sorry, embarrassing nostalgia act playing the hits and endless covers. Don't believe me? What's his idea for the next album? Yeah...it's just him forever stuck in 1971 as if that was the year of all years.

The only news im excited for is his tour with The Cult. At least The Cult have delievered live and in the studio.

Andeven if Alice does a farewell tour...and he really should, right now....I still wouldn't go see it.

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Re: Re-evaluating Alice

Post by padre_sliprat » Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:34 am

Patrick, I wasn't saying the crooner path would have been good nor bad, but a possibility.

MacQueen, I'd like for Alice to leave Detroit myself, but it's not my name on the marquee.
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Re: Re-evaluating Alice

Post by Ted Sallis » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:11 pm

Regarding MacQueen's post above, 1st of all I find it kind of ironic that you accuse Alice of being 'forever stuck in 1971', as I believe that he has continued to surround himself with much younger musicians than himself for many years when it comes to making new albums and touring, etc. In addition, I can't consider him to be forever stuck in that year when it comes to the new music he has written, recorded and performed ever since he went solo. Yes, Alice continues to resurrect different 'incarnations' of the Hollywood Vampires, but if he REALLY wants to revisit 1971, he needs to seriously consider getting back together with Michael, Dennis and Neal on a full-time basis which I don't think is going to be happening.

Ted

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Re: Re-evaluating Alice

Post by patrick » Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:21 am

what an impossible situation for Alice : if he makes "new" music he immediately gets the reaction that it doesn't stand up against the music from the ACG years. If he tries ( or says to..) find that "old style" back (e.g. the making of Social Debris ), he is stuck in '71.. Catch 22 ??
you really wouldn't understand..

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Re: Re-evaluating Alice

Post by del » Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:00 am

Interesting views McQueen.

I’d agree with you if Alice had continued to follow the route he was on with WTMN, GTH and L&W but he didn’t. Since then we have had many twists and turns in style and this has kept me hooked and interested, although I was pretty worried before Detroit Stories was released.

I’ve struggled badly with the covers purely because I prefer Alice writing his own material and I’ve enjoyed nearly all of the new work, particularly on W2MN, Paranormal and the second HV album and I desperately hope he keeps his promise and works with the current band on the next album.

Washed up? Don’t think so. There is still creativity there but just not to everyone’s taste and while he is certainly not a major draw, particularly in the US, he still has a sizeable audience elsewhere and that audience, particularly in Europe, certainly doesn’t come along just for ACG materials. It’s often younger and always responds well to the newer material from what I’ve seen.

Unafraid and unapologetic? Agree, not since ‘72 so if you measure people by these categories then hardly anyone passes their first 5 years or so because, unless they drop dead during that period, they simply get older and mature. The only person I see who falls into this category is John Lydon who has built his whole career on that but screwed himself in the process.

Embarrassing? Forget the music for a moment, I’d suggest that Alice’s genuinely embarrassing periods were when the drink and drugs were at their worst and self destruction was the name of the game That’s when the real horror took place and I for one respect anyone who can come back from that and rebuild a successful life and career.

My rose tinted spectacles came off in 76. That’s when I saw it for what it was, a career, and happily stayed on board for what has turned out to be a long, eventful and enjoyable journey and I’m going to stay till he hangs up the top hat because it’s part of me, simple as that.

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Re: Re-evaluating Alice

Post by padre_sliprat » Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:34 pm

Del, agreed that most of us will be fans for life. He never slops his way through a show, which is admirable. It's human nature to find fault at times - I know I'm guilty as charged, but when I take stock of what Alice has to offer, he's not washed up by a long chalk.
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Re: Re-evaluating Alice

Post by Maaki » Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:24 pm

List of well known acts that didn't sell out:
- The KLF

Except KLF sold out, too. So yeah.

Artists get old mellow out and wise up. That's life. What often takes place is that their audience does the same and most people are happy.

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Re: Re-evaluating Alice

Post by padre_sliprat » Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:55 pm

Maaki wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:24 pm

Artists get old mellow out and wise up. That's life. What often takes place is that their audience does the same and most people are happy.
Maybe we're afraid of getting old.
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Re: Re-evaluating Alice

Post by Daggers & Contracts » Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:08 pm

padre_sliprat wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:55 pm
Maaki wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:24 pm

Artists get old mellow out and wise up. That's life. What often takes place is that their audience does the same and most people are happy.
Maybe we're afraid of getting old.
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Re: Re-evaluating Alice

Post by cooperrocks » Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:03 am

I actually prefer solo Alice to the original band (though I love that too). Alice is still great live so he definitely doesn't need to retire and Detroit Stories is a really good album. I would like to see him go back into a heavier direction with a studio album with the current band BUT let them shine.

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Re: Re-evaluating Alice

Post by cooperrocks » Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:03 am

I actually prefer solo Alice to the original band (though I love that too). Alice is still great live so he definitely doesn't need to retire and Detroit Stories is a really good album. I would like to see him go back into a heavier direction with a studio album with the current band BUT let them shine.

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Re: Re-evaluating Alice

Post by ReGorLaTroy » Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:48 pm

del wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:13 am
It’s been quiet on here for a while so I thought I’d fill some space, reflect on my own Alice journey a bit and ask a question.

Anyone bought an album by another artist which made you re-evaluate Alice and why you were a fan?

It’s happened a couple of times for me but the first was in 1976 when I bought Goes to Hell on the day of release. While I was in the record store I saw the first Ramones album for the first time and it struck me the same way the LITD cover had when I first saw that. A real confident pose with an attitude and edge which shouted at you. I bought it on impulse and was desperate to play both when I got home.

I played GTH two or three times all the way through and enjoyed it a lot. After WTMN it wasn’t unexpected and it was clearly going in a softer direction. I wasn’t nuts about that but was still happy.

I then put the Ramones on and got exactly the same feeling I had when I bought my first Alice album,Killer, in 72. It grabbed me by the throat and didn’t let lo until the end. I must have played it four or five times over the next day and for the first time it challenged me about being an Alice fan.

I was only 15 but I realised that this was the reaction to the current state of music that I had read about in Sounds and that Alice was already in a completely different generation. Alice was showbiz and safety and the Ramones were doing something Alice Cooper had done only 5 years earlier. Made me really question everything and at this point I realised that this fan thing was deeper than I thought, I was a diehard and was with Alice for the long haul.

Any experiences to share folks?
Interesting topic OP.

Keep in mind that Joey Ramone was a huge Alice Cooper fan.

I also fell in love with the Ramones music.

I still bought each and every Alice Cooper album as they were released.

I’ve found it very interesting to see (hear) all of the styles Alice has embraced while still remaining distinctly Alice.
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Re: Re-evaluating Alice

Post by ReGorLaTroy » Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:52 pm

del wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:00 am
That’s when I saw it for what it was, a career, and happily stayed on board for what has turned out to be a long, eventful and enjoyable journey and I’m going to stay till he hangs up the top hat because it’s part of me, simple as that.
Well said, I couldn’t agree more!
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Re: Re-evaluating Alice

Post by tuneylune » Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:44 pm

Just about EVERY "Classic" rocker isn't as good now as they were back then. Either stop buying whatever they put out or be glad They still can perform . Haven't really been crazy about any new album since W2MN and feel the cover songs should stop. But, nothing really awful and He still brings it on live, as He did last night...more on that later.
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Re: Re-evaluating Alice

Post by del » Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:19 am

tuneylune wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:44 pm
Just about EVERY "Classic" rocker isn't as good now as they were back then. Either stop buying whatever they put out or be glad They still can perform . Haven't really been crazy about any new album since W2MN and feel the cover songs should stop. But, nothing really awful and He still brings it on live, as He did last night...more on that later.
Starting to get into the psychology here a little. Is it really that they aren’t as good or is it because 80%+ of fans start their journeys when they are in their teens and at their most impressionable? Usually when the act is new on the scene or having a comeback and offering something different to what the kids have started to listen to and which gives them something to relate to emotionally.

The impact the acts make at this time can never be repeated simply because it is new and because everyone matures. Those who stay on the journey as fans do so because that original impact was so strong and because the act continues to keep the connection live to some degree either by triggering memories or by still delivering parts of that original impact on some level.

For me, Alice does both. I’d like to see less effort to recreate the past and more on developing new music which is why I am desperate to hear an album with the band rather than the cast of the past. God, I’d hate my life if I was constantly trying to recreate my teens and twenties.

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Re: Re-evaluating Alice

Post by steven_crayn » Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:10 am

MacQueen wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:09 pm
Alice today...2021 Alice? He's embarrassing, he makes me sick to my stomach.

The tank is empty, there's nothing left. Alice is washed up. He's nothing but a sorry, embarrassing nostalgia act playing the hits
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Re: Re-evaluating Alice

Post by Miller » Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:24 pm

MacQueen wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:09 pm

I I apologize but Alice today...2021 Alice? He's embarrassing, he makes me sick to my stomach.
So why are you hear on this site if Alice sickens you so much?

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