This 'Bowie' thing.

[ThePainAddict]

Gunner, I think this is an example of group think, as Dark Menace pointed out people decided who was "cool" to cite as an influence and who was not. I can remember when you were laughed at for saying McCartney was the best songwriter in the Beatles, you had to cite Lennon first to be hip. Alice isn't alone in this, but his may be the biggest slight. I believe this has been touched on several times before and Brian (Renfield)wrote a quite strong refutation of this particular issue (Bowie vs. Cooper in terms of who was the initiator of many of the glam trends).

[While Heaven Wept]

Programme makers find it more convenient to overlook certain events and people to make the story run more smooth.

The BBC are particularly bad for this. I remember watching a documentary on glam a few years ago and there wasn't a single mention of Gary Glitter. Whatever the man has done in his private life, to omit him from the history of glam is just absurd.

[Gunner]

I agree, but if you go researching it what do you look at? Previous documentaries (expecially your own companies) and stuff on the net and most of that also gives them credit for it.
Catch 22.

I'm no longer surprised by it.

They could try watching a few Cooper documentaries/interviews/articles on the net I suppose - it wouldn't take too long to find the truth.

[Gunner]

Thanks for all you responses fellow sickthings; some great replies there. Glad I'm not alone in this.

[bigbradwolf]

Alice being overlooked yes is an injustice as he quite clearly was a major influence on the likes of Bowie. Your try telling a Bowie fan that Alice was his influence and they dismiss it. For a lot of people its cool to like Bowie and Alice is deemed as somewhat unfashionable. These are just narrow minded people who dismiss these things first hand without looking at the facts and unfortunately this is also transferred to these documentaries.

[Gunner]

I understand the public for being ignorant to a degree, I even understand Bowie fans (or even Bowie himself) for trying to deny this, but for a TV company to make a documentary and include everything BUT Alice Cooper demonstrates poor research, sheer ignorance or just plain bias in my opinion.

[A_MichaelUK]

>Glad I'm not alone in this.

It isn't anything new, as has been pointed out. Both Brian and I (and I'm a HUGE admirer of Bowie) were very vocal about this. I once wrote to Tony Visconti to correct him on a few things concerning the influence of Alice Cooper (band or solo, take your pick) on Bowie and to his credit, he took it very well and was very gracious.

[A_MichaelUK]

>as he quite clearly was a major influence on the likes of Bowie.

I don't know if I would go so far as to agree with "major", but Alice Cooper (band or solo, you get the idea), did do certain things first, of course.

[Gunner]

I know it's nothing new, that's one of the reasons I brought it up again, one would think by now (in these times of information overload) that this misinformation would stop.

At one point whilst watching the documentary, one could close their eyes and think the programme was about Alice Cooper but for certain names.

I think the one that really got to me was the insistence that he was the first in rock with the androgynous look!!!

[Gunner]

I like Bowie's work - well, quite a bit of it. I'm not sure I would like him though, he always seemed a little pretentious and supercilious to me - AND I think he has done nothing to correct these inaccuracies that he will be full aware of!

[suziginajackson]

I think the one that really got to me was the insistence that he was the first in rock with the androgynous look!!!

But surely, that was NOT Bowie, nor Alice or Lou Reed or Freddie Mercury, or Roger Daltry come to that

Surely the first androgynous rock star would have to be Little Richard. OK - he had the male moustache, but he also had the camp persona, and the heavily applied make-up

[The Professor]

well Alice always argued that he wasn't glam rock, so maybe they just took his word for it?

[A_MichaelUK]

>well Alice always argued that he wasn't glam rock, so maybe they just took his word for it?

The point was stll missed though.

[The Professor]

I'm trying to remember, was Alice included in the Glam Top Ten that Channel 4 did a few years back? I dont think he was, and I remember being outraged at the time.

[A_MichaelUK]

>I'm trying to remember, was Alice included in the Glam Top Ten that Channel 4 did a few years back? I dont think he was, and I remember being outraged at the time.

Yes, I think so.

[Gunner]

It's not really about a 'Glam Rock' label though is it? I mean, Alice wasn't punk rock but it didn't stop John Lydon from giving credit where it was/is due!

[Gunner]

Surely the first androgynous rock star would have to be Little Richard.

Fair point, but I DO think we are talking 'rock' - and a 'proper' sexual ambiguity (long hair etc) - not just a blatently camped-up man.

[A_MichaelUK]

>well Alice always argued that he wasn't glam rock,

I forgot to ask you to remind us when he said that.

[Gunner]

>well Alice always argued that he wasn't glam rock,

I forgot to ask you to remind us when he said that.

Good point.

Come to think of it, what is the 'criteria' to be classed as 'glam rock'??

[The Professor]

>well Alice always argued that he wasn't glam rock,

I forgot to ask you to remind us when he said that.

Barney Hoskyn's Glam book, maybe? I can't remember for sure (and in all honesty it my have been one of the others who said it). But for a good argument on the subject, google "Alice Cooper, not Glam Rock"...

By the way, I disagree - every Glam mix tape I've ever made has Alice on it, and without him, a lot of Glam (including Iggy, Bowie and Bolan) would have been short an idea or three.