Song Writing Credits And Percentages

[pitkin88]

Hi Dennis,

Finally got 'round to picking up Snakes courtesy of my local library. Brilliant read! The writing style puts the reader in the thick of the things and gives us a real feel of what type of characters you were. Kudos to you and Chris.

Mike Bruce appeared to be the one who pushed for individual writing credits, starting with Love It To Death, rather than the 5 way split and there was some tension because of this. My questions are as follows:

1) With songs like School's Out and I'm Eighteen where all five of you are credited as writers, would the percentages be equal royalty wise? 20% each for all of you? Both songs are often referred to as " Glens' songs " where he wouldn't be turned down in the mix live on stage. Was Glen afforded a bigger percentage?

2) If I am correct in saying Under My Wheels was pretty much your song though the credits read Dunaway,Cooper,Ezrin. I'm guessing Alice rewrote some of the lyrics. Would this be an equal 3 way split or would you negotiate a bigger percentage? 60 20 20?

Thanks Dennis.

[Ted Sallis]

Correction re. 2): Dennis, MB and BE are credited as the writers for UMW. I believe I've read that Alice had no part in writing/co-writing the song.

Ted

[pitkin88]

Thanks Ted. My mistake.

[Dreary]

Michael was already focused on song writing when we met him. He urged Vince and I to write. So we wrote "Don't Blow Your Mind" which went to #11 on AM radio in Tucson, Arizona, meanwhile, on the sly, Michael was writing and recording his own songs for his other bands. He wrote songs in the traditional way, usually alone, then the band would learn the song as he wrote it.

Our band was a collaborative effort in every way. Many songs were created from ground up with all of us in the same room pitching our ideas. Since Glen's input was rarely verbal, but rather, he would play something that would determine the feel of a song, or a part of a song, his influence, in Michael's opinion, fell short of deserving a writing credit. I disagreed, but the band discussed it, voted on it, and the majority won, so I was fine with that decision.

Traditionally, song writing credits were broken down by who wrote the music and who wrote the lyrics. It was a 50/50 split. The ability to break that down into multiple split percentages was fairly new in our era.

Assigning writer's credits in such a collaboration was far from perfect. With musical and lyrical ideas flying every which way during the writing, and then, a month later, trying to remember who's ideas had stuck, and if they were valuable enough to warrant credit, was frustrating, especially since Michael was such a steam roller that Glen, and I, weren't competitive enough.

Due to Joe and Shep, via Bob Ezrin, knowing how we worked, they made sure we each get 20% on "Eighteen" and "School's Out" although, in my opinion that should have happened on more songs. We site them as Glen's songs because his unique rebellious attitude was so influential, which is why I thought he should have gotten more writing credits.

I wrote "Under My Wheels" and Michael wrote the bridge. Bob Ezrin's name was added for Canadian content so the song would have a chance to get played on Canadian radio stations. That worked, and I was fine with it.

Michael wrote "Caught in a Dream" and we barely changed anything, even though Neal wrote his drum part and I wrote my bass part etc. I wrote "Black Juju" but I didn't play Glen's guitar breaks. So even the songs that weren't changed much were team efforts.

[Saint&Sinner]

That's a fascinating break down Dennis, It seems like there wasn't quite the animosity in the group (regarding song writing credits) like there was in other groups.
Its weird how the songs are split, billion dollar babies (to my memory) doesn't have Neal Smith credited on it, but to me, that song lives and breathes on the drum pattern.
Being a drummer myself i appreciate how critical the guitar and vocal melodies can be, but sometimes (like B$B) the drums completely change everything, (likewise for the bass - killer and halo of flies straight away) So how would Neal and yourself create the song, would you build it from a bass/drum lick or would you play it on an acoustic etc.
Incidentally it always blew my mind alma mater was a Neal song. i never can wrap my head around that.

[Dreary]

That's a fascinating break down Dennis, It seems like there wasn't quite the animosity in the group (regarding song writing credits) like there was in other groups.
Its weird how the songs are split, billion dollar babies (to my memory) doesn't have Neal Smith credited on it, but to me, that song lives and breathes on the drum pattern.
Being a drummer myself i appreciate how critical the guitar and vocal melodies can be, but sometimes (like B$B) the drums completely change everything, (likewise for the bass - killer and halo of flies straight away) So how would Neal and yourself create the song, would you build it from a bass/drum lick or would you play it on an acoustic etc.
Incidentally it always blew my mind alma mater was a Neal song. i never can wrap my head around that.

I covered how Neal and i work in my book. Generally, we jammed through many ideas until we hit on something we liked, and then we fine tuned it.

Yes, Neal writes good ballads. Like so many of the group's songs, it started on Neal's nylon stringed acoustic guitar, which was always sitting around readily available.

[steven_crayn]

1) With songs like School's Out and I'm Eighteen where all five of you are credited as writers, would the percentages be equal royalty wise? 20% each for all of you? Both songs are often referred to as " Glens' songs " where he wouldn't be turned down in the mix live on stage. Was Glen afforded a bigger percentage?

It doesn’t work like that, as the publisher gets 50%. On School’s Out and I’m Eighteen each band member gets 10% of the performing share of royalties (radio play etc..) with 2 publishers taking the other 50% (BMG 33.34% and Universal/MCA Music 16.66%). As for mechanical royalties (record sales) the band members get nothing with the 2 publishers getting all the money BMG 33.34% and Universal/MCA music 66.66%.

[Dreary]

It doesn’t work like that, as the publisher gets 50%. On School’s Out and I’m Eighteen each band member gets 10% of the performing share of royalties (radio play etc..) with 2 publishers taking the other 50% (BMG 33.34% and Universal/MCA Music 16.66%). As for mechanical royalties (record sales) the band members get nothing with the 2 publishers getting all the money BMG 33.34% and Universal/MCA music 66.66%.
[/quote]

Yes, publishing gets half of the royalties but BMI and ASCAP tabulate it separately as 100% for publishing and 100% for song writing. Songs that I wrote and publish through Dreary Music show up on my royalty statements as 200%.

[steven_crayn]

Yes, publishing gets half of the royalties but BMI and ASCAP tabulate it separately as 100% for publishing and 100% for song writing. Songs that I wrote and publish through Dreary Music show up on my royalty statements as 200%.

Yes I was stating how the UK collection agency PRS for music do it.

Obviously PRS do collect American royalties for UK songwriters, and have had an agreement with ASCAP since 1919.

What is good is the other UK collection agency PPL, which collects Worldwide royalties for performers who played on a song (apart from the USA). Steve Hunter joined PPL and got backdated royalties for his uncredited guitar solos as the main lead guitarist on the Billion Dollar Babies album.

I would recommend all American musicians who have played on song that has had radio play join PPL. Obviously royalties as a performer on a track aren’t as much as what the songwriter(s) get, but it’s still extra income. The other great thing about PPL is it’s free to join.
I’m a PRS and PPL member.

[pitkin88]

It doesn’t work like that, as the publisher gets 50%. On School’s Out and I’m Eighteen each band member gets 10% of the performing share of royalties (radio play etc..) with 2 publishers taking the other 50% (BMG 33.34% and Universal/MCA Music 16.66%). As for mechanical royalties (record sales) the band members get nothing with the 2 publishers getting all the money BMG 33.34% and Universal/MCA music 66.66%.

Yes, publishing gets half of the royalties but BMI and ASCAP tabulate it separately as 100% for publishing and 100% for song writing. Songs that I wrote and publish through Dreary Music show up on my royalty statements as 200%.
[/quote]

Thanks for clearing that up Dennis and answering my initial question.

Despite Glen not participating at all on MOL he gets songwriting credits. Was it a unanimous decision to do this or where there any heated arguments?. I'm assuming it was done out of loyalty and an attempt to get Glen involved again.

[Dreary]

Despite Glen not participating at all on MOL he gets songwriting credits. Was it a unanimous decision to do this or where there any heated arguments?. I'm assuming it was done out of loyalty and an attempt to get Glen involved again.
[/quote]

Even though, our song writing credits weren't perfect, we always tried to be fair. Glen participated in rehearsals where the songs were developed. His lack of showing up on time, and his occasional rough days, were more tolerable there, and he was still beneficial to the creativity of the songs.

The studio sessions, however, required consistent productivity, and so the producers, Ezrin and then Richardson, didn't want to deal with tardiness, or off-days. Personally, I thought Glen should have played his parts on Billion Dollar Babies and Muscle of Love. I think both albums would have been better.

[Daggers & Contracts]

Dennis,
Thank you for being candid!
RIP Glen