comparing ACG to Alice solo in terms of rating enjoyment

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Rhapsody of Fire
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Re: comparing ACG to Alice solo in terms of rating enjoyment

Post by Rhapsody of Fire » Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:14 pm

The ACG made music that was pure rock and roll, barely blues-based and not a hint of folkie sentiment. They just blastered your brains with sound.
They had also the violent theatrics, that intrinsic coldness, that changed the rock scene for ever. I believe that this was Alice's approach, and Alice Solo kept that way of playing music with more humor, less violence and more gothic theatrics and he adjusts and reinvent himself at each eras. I like both. I go by songs, not albums.

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Re: comparing ACG to Alice solo in terms of rating enjoyment

Post by Saint&Sinner » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:47 pm

overall i prefer his solo outings. While numerically there is a vast difference so hard for a direct comparison, but most of my fave albums are solo ones and i tend to listen to them more than his band output.
fave albums : Welcome to my nightmare, from the inside, raise your fist, hey stoopid, last temptation, brutal planet.
The band work i love killer and billion dollar but am not a fan of schools out , love it to death is good but not great and muscle of love is pretty rubbish. I actively hate pretties for you and easy action (while better) is just not good.

His solo outings are more varied (for good and bad) which i appreciate as well,i love them both and appreciate the band for setting it up but i love them both, also now he taps the band for good songs every now and again we get the best of both worlds.

The only thing i miss nowadays is the darkness/horror which hasn't really been present for a while even on W2MN (which is great album) but it lacked a real dark through line , even leaving off the best song (under the bed) because it didnt fit the nightmare or some such nonsense.

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Re: comparing ACG to Alice solo in terms of rating enjoyment

Post by del » Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:43 am

I view the whole story from PFY to Detroit Stories in chapters each one is effectively a mini career to me so I don’t really compare ACG to AC as such. It’s all part of the journey.

1. ACG had a slow start, exploding with LITD, peaking with Killer, SO and BDB and then dropping off with MOL. 90%

2. WTMN through to FTH - Showbiz Alice with two excellent bookends in WTMN and FTI and a bit of a dip in the middle but strong overall.85%

3. FTF to DaDa I view as Alice trying to find an audience and then loosing himself. A real mix and by far the most diverse period.80%

4. Constrictor to TLT period had the comeback albums and tours which confirmed the rock icon image and underwrote the rest of the career. The quality of output got better through the period for me.75%

5. The twin period. BP and DD were joined at the hip as were TEOAC and DD for me and I love both styles.75%

6. We seem to have moved into a space where each remaining album has its own standing that isn’t linked to the one before or after. ACAS, W2MN, Paranormal and now Detroit Stories are all one of a kind. An average of 70% for me with Paranormal hitting 80%

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patrick
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Re: comparing ACG to Alice solo in terms of rating enjoyment

Post by patrick » Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:36 am

good summary, althought I would give TLT a place on its own, it being totally different from constrictor and RYFAY
and Detroit Stories could indeed be seen as a stand alone : on the one hand it would be a covers album (mostly), on the other it is promoted as an AC album seeing the trademark makeup all over the cover, the mask, the T-shirt, in the video ..
pleased to see Paranormal getting a higher rating :clap:
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Re: comparing ACG to Alice solo in terms of rating enjoyment

Post by Babysquid » Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:22 pm

Well Alice solo has had quite a few different phases so maybe it would be easier to separate each of them and rate them against the group (which possibly could be argued had 2 separate phases itself ) I.e ballad Alice 60, black out Alice 100, Hair Metal Alice -1 etc..

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Re: comparing ACG to Alice solo in terms of rating enjoyment

Post by padre_sliprat » Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:33 am

Babysquid wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:22 pm
Well Alice solo has had quite a few different phases so maybe it would be easier to separate each of them and rate them against the group (which possibly could be argued had 2 separate phases itself ) I.e ballad Alice 60, black out Alice 100, Hair Metal Alice -1 etc..
I'd have to go on an album by album or a song by song basis.
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Re: comparing ACG to Alice solo in terms of rating enjoyment

Post by del » Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:38 am

patrick wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:36 am
good summary, althought I would give TLT a place on its own, it being totally different from constrictor and RYFAY
and Detroit Stories could indeed be seen as a stand alone : on the one hand it would be a covers album (mostly), on the other it is promoted as an AC album seeing the trademark makeup all over the cover, the mask, the T-shirt, in the video ..
pleased to see Paranormal getting a higher rating :clap:
Agree TLT is very different to its predecessors but I view it as a progression rather than complete change of direction, a bit like FTI at the end of the WTMN sequence.

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Re: comparing ACG to Alice solo in terms of rating enjoyment

Post by jacknifejohnny » Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:39 pm

I find it hard to split TLT , Brutal Planet and WTMN in the solo years. Top 3 imo without doubt.

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Re: comparing ACG to Alice solo in terms of rating enjoyment

Post by forglasgowonly » Sat Dec 26, 2020 3:24 pm

For the original ACG I rate LITD, Killer and Schools Out with BDB just a touch behind. Someone said SO was inconsistent. I disagree. It is my favourite thing he has ever done, and I wouldn't change anything about it. Also loved the cover and dustbin photo. Of the solo years, I think they are pretty consistent right through to Dada, which is a masterpiece. In the sobriety era, he really lost his creativity for a long time. Dirty Diamonds, W2MN and Paranormal are great, but The last temptation, is (IMO) his only out the park classic post Dada. BTW I thought the last Hollywood Vampires album was great. Is there a more "Coopery" song than Mr Spider in the the whole catalogue?

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Re: comparing ACG to Alice solo in terms of rating enjoyment

Post by forglasgowonly » Sat Dec 26, 2020 3:51 pm

I would add that my least favourite releases are all from the solo era. For the ACG I think Pretties is an utterly bizzare psychedelic minor classic. On Easy Action you can hear the classic sound formulate on Return of the spiders. In the solo era, I don't mind the kitchy moments from Goes to Hell and L&W. Zipper is a bit thin on the ground. The hair metal albums are terribly dated but coincide with me first seeing the great man live, so they get a pass. Anyway, Teenage Frankenstein, Trick bag and Freedom are still great tracks. Trash is one I never listen to. The "sex" album, it was so contrived, and cringeworthy. Despite this, I was still glad to see my hero back in the charts. Not a huge fan of the Nu-Metal era. BP has its moments but I never play DT. I am always sceptical when I hear artists say "here's a bunch of songs we recorded for the last album, but couldn't fit on it. But they are just as good as the one's we put on the last one". As for ACAS, I admire the ambition but the production is horrible, and the songwriting falls flat. Vengeance is mine is ok, but thats it.

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Re: comparing ACG to Alice solo in terms of rating enjoyment

Post by Dannorama » Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:01 pm

I've been ruminating about this for a while, and here's my take... I cannot divide the two. The group approached it like a mission, and the records that they made are stone-cold classics. I wish that WB had allowed them to take time off after BDB, instead of pushing for more. That time off would have been refreshing, I'm sure. I do believe that the split was inevitable, though. Disco/new wave would have seen to that.

It bugs me when some folks say that they quit AC after the group split. It's as if they are saying that solo Alice is easily discounted. Really? Bullship. His music/musicians/performance has never faltered - even during the darkest days. I am not here to say that everything Alice squeezes out is 100% pure juice, in either situation. I'm just saying that I like it regardless.
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Re: comparing ACG to Alice solo in terms of rating enjoyment

Post by Ted Sallis » Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:41 pm

Dannorama wrote:
Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:01 pm
It bugs me when some folks say that they quit AC after the group split. It's as if they are saying that solo Alice is easily discounted. Really? Bullship. His music/musicians/performance has never faltered - even during the darkest days. I am not here to say that everything Alice squeezes out is 100% pure juice, in either situation. I'm just saying that I like it regardless.
Of course, it's really a matter of one's own view re. whether or not Alice's solo material is better than/as good as the ACG's output and thereby whether it's worth listening to both. For me, Alice solo just doesn't compare to the Original Group; many of Alice's solo songs sound either too self-indulgent or too commercial for my liking, and the rest just don't measure up. If by the darkest days you mean the early 80's period, I can't agree about his music (at least) not faltering but then again that's just a matter of what I stated in my 1st sentence above.

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Re: comparing ACG to Alice solo in terms of rating enjoyment

Post by Saint&Sinner » Wed Jan 06, 2021 4:47 am

I think the telling thing when comparing the group to solo is obviously the sheer number of solo vs group.
Group post split have been very poor output in number and quality in my opinion.
Solo has had dips but even in these dips there are more highlights than on most of the groups post split work combined.

As mentioned its all personal preference, but i think alice has managed to carve a unique and exciting career and musically it is superb. for me solo overall is 8/10 (certain eras being higher than others) and group is 7/10 (first two being terrible 4 being great/good and 1 being poor)

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Re: comparing ACG to Alice solo in terms of rating enjoyment

Post by nurserozetta » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:59 am

forglasgowonly wrote:
Sat Dec 26, 2020 3:24 pm
. Is there a more "Coopery" song than Mr Spider in the the whole catalogue?
Just like all the covers don't belong on Alice's solo albums this song definitely does not belong on the Vampires album.

Its good ! what's the story with it , left over from ACAS or something else ?

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Re: comparing ACG to Alice solo in terms of rating enjoyment

Post by Babysquid » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:07 am

padre_sliprat wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:33 am
Babysquid wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:22 pm
Well Alice solo has had quite a few different phases so maybe it would be easier to separate each of them and rate them against the group (which possibly could be argued had 2 separate phases itself ) I.e ballad Alice 60, black out Alice 100, Hair Metal Alice -1 etc..
I'd have to go on an album by album or a song by song basis.
Of course that would be the most sensible way to rate all music

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