Bob Ezrin - Still worthy?

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Bob Ezrin - Still worthy?

Post by Dannorama » Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:56 am


Is Bob Ezrin still worthy? To me, the answer is a resounding "HELL YES!" His touch is entwined with the classic Alice sound. The very first notes of W2MN were worth a thousand dollars to me.

I get very tired of the modern Alice sound, which is basically BASH! BASH! BASH! BASH! No subtlety - no dynamics. Bob brought that back. Granted, The Hollywood Vampires is full of BASH! But, I can hear the moments where he was able to influence the results with his touch of musical restraint and richness.

Me, I am All About Bob.
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Re: Bob Ezrin - Still worthy?

Post by mr.barlow » Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:23 am

Ezrin on a bad day is better than everybody else on their best day. I think a lot of fans would be thrilled if Alice brought back the puke known as Desmond Child.

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Re: Bob Ezrin - Still worthy?

Post by mestreech » Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:26 am

Ezrin is one of the best but I would like to get a new fresh producer for Cooper.

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Re: Bob Ezrin - Still worthy?

Post by pitkin88 » Sat Feb 20, 2016 4:28 am

Dannorama wrote:
Is Bob Ezrin still worthy? To me, the answer is a resounding "HELL YES!" His touch is entwined with the classic Alice sound. The very first notes of W2MN were worth a thousand dollars to me.

I get very tired of the modern Alice sound, which is basically BASH! BASH! BASH! BASH! No subtlety - no dynamics. Bob brought that back. Granted, The Hollywood Vampires is full of BASH! But, I can hear the moments where he was able to influence the results with his touch of musical restraint and richness.

Me, I am All About Bob.

The HV was BASH BASH BASH with no restraint. WTMN was MEH sound wise with a few exceptions. HELL NO! might be just as appropriate. He could work if there was a clear brief on the project and an analog sound recording. I fear the same awful bombast if he is given free reign.

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Re: Bob Ezrin - Still worthy?

Post by sumorider » Sat Feb 20, 2016 6:06 am

Some says that Bob have not produced a masterpiece album since 90s "Modern Rock(post Nirvana)".
I agree that there is lack of subtlety and dynamics.

I always love Bob, but
If my wish could be granted, Tobias Sammet is far better.

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Re: Bob Ezrin - Still worthy?

Post by Lucius Morthem » Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:20 pm

He's still worthy but not for Alice, maybe for a new young band where he can risk to experiment again


Now he's going safe in order not to risk a thing! And the little he risk.... Meh!


Don't get me wrong, he's a great producer but I don't like his work with Alice anymore (current work)

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Re: Bob Ezrin - Still worthy?

Post by Maaki » Sat Feb 20, 2016 8:11 pm

It is not a question of being worthy for me. He is.

I would still love to see Alice go with a producer that is relevant, now.

Not many things going to way I would hope, lately, but as always I am just happy to get whatever Alice puts out :)

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Re: Bob Ezrin - Still worthy?

Post by darkmenace » Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:05 pm

I think it's time to move on from Bob Ezrin. The strengths of working together no longer outweigh the weaknesses and this was demonstrated on W2MN. Alice and Bob get too distracted trying to be light-hearted and funny, to the detriment of the material. Also, they do not put out cohesive musical albums, recording songs with too many musical styles that clash with each other. I thought this was true long ago on ACGTH but even more a liability on W2MN.

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Re: Bob Ezrin - Still worthy?

Post by recoop » Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:17 pm

darkmenace wrote:I think it's time to move on from Bob Ezrin. The strengths of working together no longer outweigh the weaknesses and this was demonstrated on W2MN. Alice and Bob get too distracted trying to be light-hearted and funny, to the detriment of the material. Also, they do not put out cohesive musical albums, recording songs with too many musical styles that clash with each other. I thought this was true long ago on ACGTH but even more a liability on W2MN.
With regard to your last sentence I would agree and would add Lace and W as well- in fact I think L and W was the best example of "lack of cohesion". With regard to ACGTH and L and W, I have pondered whether both Alice and Bob (both brilliant when on form) were both heavily under the weather for whatever reason (Alice with alcohol and Bob?) during the creation of these albums. The next album FTI, with Foster as producer, hung together musically imo. Sure Bob has a lot to offer but maybe a new approach needed.
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Re: Bob Ezrin - Still worthy?

Post by A_MichaelUK » Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:26 pm

From darkmenace:
"Also, they do not put out cohesive musical albums, recording songs with too many musical styles that clash with each other."

I totally disagree. Either the songs are good or they're not, irrespective of the style. Would you say the same about "Welcome To My Nightmare"? Are you really saying it isn't "cohesive"? Being "cohesive" isn't as important as starting out with great songs. The challenge after that is to arrange them, record them and then mix them in the most appropriate way.

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Re: Bob Ezrin - Still worthy?

Post by darkmenace » Sun Feb 21, 2016 5:51 am

A_MichaelUK wrote: I totally disagree. Either the songs are good or they're not, irrespective of the style. Would you say the same about "Welcome To My Nightmare"? Are you really saying it isn't "cohesive"? Being "cohesive" isn't as important as starting out with great songs. The challenge after that is to arrange them, record them and then mix them in the most appropriate way.
WTMN was very cohesive in terms of theme and music, it doesn't get much better.

Great songs are definitely important (insofar as we're assuming that all the songs on ACGTH and W2MN are great songs, which I'm not) but putting together an album that flows well and forms a cohesive musical whole is important too. There's an art to that.

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Re: Bob Ezrin - Still worthy?

Post by recoop » Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:53 am

I suppose some of this discussion on cohesion relates to whether one likes an album to flow musically- I still stick a CD album in (old school I know) and want it to flow. Something like Lace and W, for example, changes style and jars me with UbangI Stomp and Damned if you Do. I think Ghouls Gone Wild and Disco etc track do something similar on WTMN2. I know that we could discuss individual definitiions of "cohesion" and "flow" but whatever word we use I guess it comes down to whether one wants an album to hang together musically. Going back to Damned if you Do, for example, I guess this could have been musically altered to make it sound as if it belongs more on L and W (I am not sure about Ubangi Stomp though). The original Welcome was cohesive in my view and so was FTI (not Ezrin). What came in between was a bit lacking in my opinion.
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Re: Bob Ezrin - Still worthy?

Post by A_MichaelUK » Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:30 am

From darkmenace:
"WTMN was very cohesive in terms of theme and music, it doesn't get much better."

So why did you write that "they do not put out cohesive musical albums, recording songs with too many musical styles that clash with each other." then?

>Great songs are definitely important

They are the most crucial elements of any album.

>(insofar as we're assuming that all the songs on ACGTH and W2MN are great songs, which I'm not)

That wasn't my point either.

>but putting together an album that flows well and forms a cohesive musical whole is important too.

Not necessarily. You could have ten songs on an album, in ten different styles, that might be the greatest songs you've ever heard but that wouldn't be cohesive, which according to you is a bad thing. You could also have ten songs which together are totally cohesive but they might be the ten worst songs ever written. Are you saying that wouldn't matter as long as they are cohesive?

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Re: Bob Ezrin - Still worthy?

Post by A_MichaelUK » Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:36 am

From recoop:
"whatever word we use I guess it comes down to whether one wants an album to hang together musically."

The quality of the songs will dictate that. Alice has pretty much said that about "Muscle Of Love" but you can be sure he's talking about the quality of the songs and not the fact that there's two or three different styles on it.

> Going back to Damned if you Do, for example, I guess this could have been musically altered to make it sound as if it belongs more on L and W (I am not sure about Ubangi Stomp though).

You are totally taking that song far too seriously. All it is, is just a dumb pastiche of a country and western song - it isn't meant to be "Killer" or "Pick Up The Bones".

> The original Welcome was cohesive in my view and so was FTI (not Ezrin). What came in between was a bit lacking in my opinion.

Yes because there were some bad songs.

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Re: Bob Ezrin - Still worthy?

Post by recoop » Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:51 am

Agree that there were some bad songs on ACGTH and Lace and W. I have never taken Damned if you Do seriously (after first hearing anyway) but felt that its inclusion at that point in that album was a serious mistake. However, even Damned if you Do, if given a different musical treatment, may have fitted into its surroundings (actually I think the lyrics could have made a good dumb rock parody although I get the reason it is country and westernish). I think the decision to put certain tracks in an album changes the flow, to me at any rate. It matters less now I guess in that it is easier to pick and choose tracks. Old Schoolers like me perhaps like to put an album on (outdated concept maybe) and listen to it unravel along a musical journey without too many diversions.
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Re: Bob Ezrin - Still worthy?

Post by Dannorama » Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:19 pm

It seems like Alice and Bob are still getting used to each other again. Alice's more recent output has been pure energy, and that can be tiresome after a while. In terms of light and shade, Bob is a master. He adds that element of relief, but these are still Alice Cooper records.

To be certain, there are songs that can be dismissed forever, but that's the creative process coming out. Alice has his ideas, and Bob has some of his own. To say that, after these last two albums, Bob is no longer needed is short-sighted. I think they still have a lot of territory to explore together.

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Re: Bob Ezrin - Still worthy?

Post by A_MichaelUK » Sun Feb 21, 2016 1:36 pm

From recoop:
"Agree that there were some bad songs on ACGTH and Lace and W."

Only on the latter, I would argue.

I have never taken Damned if you Do seriously (after first hearing anyway) but felt that its inclusion at that point in that album was a serious mistake.

Yes, because it's a bad song and not necessarily because it doesn't fit in with what's around it.

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Re: Bob Ezrin - Still worthy?

Post by guttertrash » Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:28 pm

What has Bob made since the 1980s worth listening too? He had a successful win with Hanoi Rocks' "Two Steps From The Move," but I can't name anything after that worth listening too. And Ezrin is better on his worst days than most other producers? Really? What great masterpieces he made with Kiss on Music From "The Elder" and with Lace & Whiskey. There are plenty of solid producers that could get a great rock n' roll album out of Alice.

I would like to see him record another one with Jack Douglas if he wanted to stick with big name producers. If he really wanted to kick ass, Chips Kiesbye (who produced The Hellacopters last few albums and Michael Monroe's latest)would be killer, although I know that is a far-fetched dream since he is in Sweden. Tony Visconti would be a great choice also, as well as, Daniel Rey or Jack Endino.

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Re: Bob Ezrin - Still worthy?

Post by mr.barlow » Sun Feb 21, 2016 4:24 pm

When it comes to "Lace & Whiskey", there is so much to take into consideration with that album. From Alice's out of control drinking and health, to the Escargot character and where they were trying to take Alice and the whole damn thing. The stage show was created to be a Las Vegas style revue. Alice was looking to add variety and take it all very mainstream. Just look at the 45 single sleeve for You & Me--that's where they wanted to go. It sounds crazy now, and obviously it turned out to be a huge disaster for his career, but at the time they thought it might be possible.

The album is a train wreck, but still has some bright spots. I think Ezrin was also not in the best of shape at the time it was recorded and I'm sure the substances clouded both the creativity and judgment of all involved.

As far as "No More Love (At Your Convenience) is concerned, Alice has been quoted as saying it was a joke gone awry. I think it was more of a case of WB wanting Alice to release a disco tinged song like many rock bands were doing at the time. Wagner in his book mentions that when they wrote the song it was completely different. It was Ezrin that turned it into the infamous turd that it became. I'm guessing it was at the insistence of Warner Bros. Maybe Amuk could confirm/deny this.

L&W contains a few great songs. You & Me although a sugary piece of schmaltz was a big hit. The album however, turned off a lot of fans and they had work to do in getting them back. FTI was a start but by that time everything was changing rapidly in the music business with the rise of punk and new wave.

At any rate--Ezrin I'm sure was following a plan that they set out for that album. I'm also sure he was given directives from WB that the alvum contain certain types of songs. The ballad was a must as that's where Alice was having his success after 1975 and WB wanted another big one. My point is--that album was the fault of all involved--not just Ezrin.

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Re: Bob Ezrin - Still worthy?

Post by Mr.Bluelegs » Sun Feb 21, 2016 4:32 pm

Ezrin is not the problem, it all comes down to the songs (as many already stated). Listen to how great "When Hell Comes Home", "Last Man on Earth" , & "I'll Bite Your Face Off" came out compared to Ghouls & some of the others. It's a matter of song choice, pretty much as well as the performances and arrangements. I always felt "Face Off" was hindered because of the title. The title was cool at first, but it was too good of a song to be givin a gimmicky title. Look how some really good songs were ruined on ACAS because of Danny Saber's super-compressed, sterile production.

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