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 Post subject: Re: Dennis Dunaway Book
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:51 pm 
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Dada God
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SkipTown wrote:
A_MichaelUK wrote:
From Toronto Bo:
"Not everything should be given equal weight in the name of fair and balanced."

I understand you're point but what you say is only true if all sources are indeed treated equally - it wouldn't be "fair and balanced" otherwise. You can't get a good summary of a subject unless you consider all sources and all opposing views. Problems arise when some sources are ignored simply because they scupper a theory.



Sorry amuk...but at this point in time, many of Alice's views of the past are getting to the point of near worthlessness. You are totally wrong in attempting to place equal value on all sources.

For example....listen to the first part of this recent interview by Alice....

http://youtu.be/c47EDqhlaVw


I was happy to hear Alice say that his two favorite guitar players are/were Dick Wagner and Steve Hunter. Steve's last album "The Manhattan Blues Project" was one of the best releases of last year. Although it is a "blues" album Alice is not too far off by calling it a "jazz" album. Dick Wagner's last release I believe was a collection of demos, works in progress, solos, etc and he decided to release it in a limited edition package. I have not personally heard it but I understand it was heavy on the jazz. I believe the limited run of the set box set sold out rather quickly. Maybe his estate will someday re-issue it.

As far as Alice mentioning the "reunion" of the original band--he was correct is stating that they were on W2MN and have appeared together for some charity events. I will admit however that him stating that they are "getting together all of the time" is a bit of stretch. BUT--who knows Skip--maybe this is what you've been waiting for. I think however it's just Alice going through the motions of an interview.

I wouldn't say Alice's interviews are "worthless". This one to me was worth quite a lot as Alice is at least publicy stating that his two favorite guitar players are Dick Wagner and Steve Hunter--something that I always thought was the case. At least we now know for sure that he preferred their musicianship and playing over that of both Michael Bruce and Glen Buxton.


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 Post subject: Re: Dennis Dunaway Book
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:02 pm 
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Humanary Stew
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I was glancing at the Alice Cooper Greatest Hits album. Looking at the song writing credits for the songs....I don't see the name - Dick Wagner. How could that be? Alice just said he wrote all the hits with Dick Wagner???? Maybe Alice meant the song Poison, that was a big hit...what? Not that one either?

Geez, they better get the first team in here to spin that statement!


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 Post subject: Re: Dennis Dunaway Book
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:07 pm 
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Dada God
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SkipTown wrote:
I need amuk's knowledge here....

This photo was put on facebook, and the question came up about that white object over Shep's right eye. Any idea what it is?

https://www.facebook.com/supermenschmov ... =1&theater


I realize that the extensive amount of 'mammary tissue' makes the object hard to locate.


I just started at the beginning of the thread as I'm guessing this is your original question. My answer would be that it's quite apparent that it's a bandage. Possibly due to a recent eye injury or surgery.


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 Post subject: Re: Dennis Dunaway Book
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:25 pm 
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Dada God
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SkipTown wrote:
I was glancing at the Alice Cooper Greatest Hits album. Looking at the song writing credits for the songs....I don't see the name - Dick Wagner. How could that be? Alice just said he wrote all the hits with Dick Wagner???? Maybe Alice meant the song Poison, that was a big hit...what? Not that one either?

Geez, they better get the first team in here to spin that statement!


Maybe he got confused as he was thinking that Dick Wagner played on a lot of the hit albums like "School's Out", "Billion Dollar Babies" and "Muscle Of Love" as one of the original guitar players--that would be Glen Buxton--- was no longer contributing yet still getting credit.(spoken with sarcasm--by the way). Of course we all know that it wasn't Dick Wagner alone as there were others like Rick Derringer, Mick Mashbir and others who were also playing on those albums.

At any rate--I will agree that the writers and the musicians who wrote and played on those hit songs deserve the credit. The writers of the songs deserve the MAJORITY OF THE CREDIT. Also, one can never overlook the work of Bob Ezrin in those albums and songs.

Poison was indeed a huge hit and although I rather hate the song it was great to see Alice bring himself back from the depths of near death from the addictions of cocaine a booze to the very top of the charts. Both he and his career were nearly killed by addiction--but in the end is was Alice who won the fight. Alice Cooper is the textbook case of what a person could accomplish if they take back their life from addiction.

It was on the next album "Hey Stoopid" that Dick Wagner made his return and gave Alice the best song of the awful hair metal years with "Might As Well Be On Mars".


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 Post subject: Re: Dennis Dunaway Book
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:50 pm 
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Just call me "Chuck"!
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SkipTown wrote:
I was glancing at the Alice Cooper Greatest Hits album. Looking at the song writing credits for the songs....I don't see the name - Dick Wagner. How could that be? Alice just said he wrote all the hits with Dick Wagner???? Maybe Alice meant the song Poison, that was a big hit...what? Not that one either?

Geez, they better get the first team in here to spin that statement!


http://www.sickthingsuk.co.uk/content.p ... s/a-gh.php

'Greatest Hits' was released in 1974 BEFORE Alice had solo hits with Dick Wagner. It was a band album, not a solo hits collection.


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 Post subject: Re: Dennis Dunaway Book
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:54 pm 
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Humanary Stew
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Si wrote:
SkipTown wrote:
I was glancing at the Alice Cooper Greatest Hits album. Looking at the song writing credits for the songs....I don't see the name - Dick Wagner. How could that be? Alice just said he wrote all the hits with Dick Wagner???? Maybe Alice meant the song Poison, that was a big hit...what? Not that one either?

Geez, they better get the first team in here to spin that statement!


'Greatest Hits' was released in 1974 BEFORE Alice had solo hits with Dick Wagner. It was a band album, not a solo hits collection.


Andy busy today? Si...you ask ANYONE to name the HITS of Alice Cooper, and tell me how many songs Dick Wagner is involved with. Alice wasn't misquoted, there is no spin. Alice's words are evident. Are you saying he ASSUMED his remarks would only be heard by solo-Alice fans?

You guys just can't bring yourself to say, "Alice screwed up" - can you???


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 Post subject: Re: Dennis Dunaway Book
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:12 am 
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SkipTown wrote:
Si wrote:
SkipTown wrote:
I was glancing at the Alice Cooper Greatest Hits album. Looking at the song writing credits for the songs....I don't see the name - Dick Wagner. How could that be? Alice just said he wrote all the hits with Dick Wagner???? Maybe Alice meant the song Poison, that was a big hit...what? Not that one either?

Geez, they better get the first team in here to spin that statement!


'Greatest Hits' was released in 1974 BEFORE Alice had solo hits with Dick Wagner. It was a band album, not a solo hits collection.


Andy busy today? Si...you ask ANYONE to name the HITS of Alice Cooper, and tell me how many songs Dick Wagner is involved with. Alice wasn't misquoted, there is no spin. Alice's words are evident. Are you saying he ASSUMED his remarks would only be heard by solo-Alice fans?


I was saying nothing of the sort.
I was just pointing out your example was irrelevant as it was a band album. You were basically pointing out that Wagner didn`t have any writing credits on a band album to point out that Alice was wrong.

As it happens I generally agree with you that interviews with Alice aren`t the best place to find factual information. It doesn`t mean everything he says is wrong or purposely misleading at all. It's just that he doesn't let facts get in the way of an entertaining story.

In this case yes, Wagner didn't write most of the songs he's best known for, however Wagner did write some of his biggest hits (WTMN, OWB, INC, Y&M, GTH etc), some of which charted higher then some of the songs the band released as singles.

I doubt Alice thought to much about the specific wording he was using and how some people might pull it apart. He gave credit to Wagner for writing hits. If asked about the band he is ALWAYS very complimentary about them all as well. Should someone pull apart everything he says about the band and see if it could be construed as detrimental to Wagner? Like is too short.


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 Post subject: Re: Dennis Dunaway Book
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:00 am 
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Humanary Stew
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Interesting point that perhaps Alice doesn't divide his career into band/solo like many fans do. I find it hard to believe....but I grant that it is a possibility. Perhaps the days in the early 70's, [B$B, MOL] could blend into the days of the mid to late 70's....I can see some of that occurring to a senior citizen like Alice (partly joking there)...but mixing up those early songs and events, seems less likely.

Being within 2 years of age to Alice, I can sympathize. And I didn't have to spend most of my life talking to media and trying to remember what stories are true and what I made up. But, then again, few people, young or old, have a mind like mine....a steel trap of all facts and events - almost void of any and all mistakes.
:)

Perhaps Alice should hire a 'mouthpiece' companion to travel with him? Similar to those "Managers" that some professional wrestlers have. Yeah, I could do that. I'd wear a loud suite and stand between the guy with a microphone and Alice....making sure I cut Alice off if his mind begins to wonder. Andy...get in touch with Toby, Kyle, Shlep and those guys and let them know I am available and I'd work cheap. I can see it now.....a media-type approaches Alice and says, "Alice, when is their going to be a reunion?" I step in and respond, "Let me answer that question for the master......"


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 Post subject: Re: Dennis Dunaway Book
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:24 am 
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SkipTown wrote:
Interesting point that perhaps Alice doesn't divide his career into band/solo like many fans do. I find it hard to believe....but I grant that it is a possibility.


You could also kinda take this a stage further.
It's often said that being a band is like being in a marriage. After a divorce people tend to stop naming a previous partner when talking about events from the past, resorting to "we" without saying the name(s), maybe partly to protect a new partner. When talking about events in your life do YOU consciously draw a line between parts of it when you speak, or just say "when we went to .... it was great fun". You might want to draw a mental line to move on but there is always some blurring of that line as the events get further in the past. I know I sometimes have to think about when something happened and who was there at that point, and have been caught out getting it wrong on occasion.

SkipTown wrote:
Perhaps Alice should hire a 'mouthpiece' companion to travel with him?


I don`t know about a mouthpiece, but I remember occasions when Brian used to correct Alice, or sigh with resignation and roll his eyes when Alice got something wrong, like placing events years from when they happened.


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 Post subject: Re: Dennis Dunaway Book
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:48 am 
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it should be pointed out that in the UK after the original band split up none of the singles that were co written with Dick Wagner were top 40 hits. It wasn't until the 1980s that an Alice Cooper single would chart again (Poison #2).

The original band actually had a lot of success with singles in the UK, School's Out #1, Elected #4, Hello Hooray # 6, No More Mister Nice Guy #10 and Teenage Lament #12.










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 Post subject: Re: Dennis Dunaway Book
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:02 pm 
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Dada God
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From SkipTown:
"You are totally wrong in attempting to place equal value on all sources."

That wasn't my point. My point was not to discount a source without studying it. If you've already decided everything Alice has to say is worthless, then you're not getting all sides of the story.

>For example....listen to the first part of this recent interview by Alice....

I already did, before you posted the link. He is wrong. What he should have said was that he wrote about half "of the hits" (from the seventies at least) with Wagner.


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 Post subject: Re: Dennis Dunaway Book
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:06 pm 
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Dada God
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From SkipTown:
"Geez, they better get the first team in here to spin that statement!"

Well, not all the songs on "Alice Cooper's Greatest Hits" were actually "Hits" - try and "spin that".


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 Post subject: Re: Dennis Dunaway Book
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:11 pm 
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Dada God
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From SkipTown:
"So I re-iterate - Alice's comments about past events should not be counted on as being truthful or accurate..."

Did anyone ever say they should be?! Do we need to have the discussion about impaired memory and show - business hyperbole all ovr again?!

> I guess 'confusion' is a natural occurrence.

How about your "confusion"? You seem to have forgotten that you are reviving topics which have been debated here many times already? Alice is older than you are. What is your excuse?


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 Post subject: Re: Dennis Dunaway Book
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:28 pm 
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Dada God
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From Si:
"but I remember occasions when Brian used to correct Alice, or sigh with resignation and roll his eyes when Alice got something wrong, like placing events years from when they happened."

Exactly and people around him still do it.


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 Post subject: Re: Dennis Dunaway Book
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:58 pm 
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Note: Pointless posts being deleted as they have nothing at all to do with the topic or conversation.


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 Post subject: Re: Dennis Dunaway Book
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:00 am 
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Dada God
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steven_crayn wrote:
it should be pointed out that in the UK after the original band split up none of the singles that were co written with Dick Wagner were top 40 hits. It wasn't until the 1980s that an Alice Cooper single would chart again (Poison #2).

The original band actually had a lot of success with singles in the UK, School's Out #1, Elected #4, Hello Hooray # 6, No More Mister Nice Guy #10 and Teenage Lament #12.


Was "How you gonna see me now" not a hit in the UK?
In Holland it was.


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 Post subject: Re: Dennis Dunaway Book
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:20 am 
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Dada God
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mestreech wrote:
steven_crayn wrote:
it should be pointed out that in the UK after the original band split up none of the singles that were co written with Dick Wagner were top 40 hits. It wasn't until the 1980s that an Alice Cooper single would chart again (Poison #2).

The original band actually had a lot of success with singles in the UK, School's Out #1, Elected #4, Hello Hooray # 6, No More Mister Nice Guy #10 and Teenage Lament #12.


Was "How you gonna see me now" not a hit in the UK?
In Holland it was.



Maybe top 50 but not top 30 so not a hit. Hardly surprising given the music of the time.










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 Post subject: Re: Dennis Dunaway Book
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:28 am 
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pitkin88 wrote:
mestreech wrote:
steven_crayn wrote:
it should be pointed out that in the UK after the original band split up none of the singles that were co written with Dick Wagner were top 40 hits. It wasn't until the 1980s that an Alice Cooper single would chart again (Poison #2).

The original band actually had a lot of success with singles in the UK, School's Out #1, Elected #4, Hello Hooray # 6, No More Mister Nice Guy #10 and Teenage Lament #12.


Was "How you gonna see me now" not a hit in the UK?
In Holland it was.



Maybe top 50 but not top 30 so not a hit. Hardly surprising given the music of the time.


It got to No.61 the only other Wagner era "hit" in the UK was "No More Love At Your Convenience" which hit 44
Also 7&7 is, For Britain Only, He's Back and Freedom all charted before Poison although nowhere near as successfully .


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 Post subject: Re: Dennis Dunaway Book
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:11 am 
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I wouldn't consider 44 a hit.










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 Post subject: Re: Dennis Dunaway Book
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:13 am 
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Back to DDs book- whatever he says will be interesting to me and many AC fans I believe- I am sure recollections will be different- would Mick Jaggers memory of the Stones in the mid 1970s be the same as K Richards (remarkable if he remembers much) , Mick Taylor, Bill Wyman or Charlie Watts>- did the Stones have differences that skewed their opinions?- Did Keith and Mick ever fall out>- and so the same for Alice Cooper- which is why DD's book will be a great read, probably (and he will get some things wrong because he is creative and human).










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