Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by GNDM » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:57 am

Toronto Bob and GNDM:
Within the context I have described why should Alice be any different to the thousands of other performers who do exactly the same when interviewed?


Ahhh....he doesn't want his nose to grow any longer????? :x

BTW....I don't recall saying anything similar to Toronto Bob's remarks. But I do understand his point of view. Just not sure I agree with it 100%.

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by Robbie » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:41 am

Thanks GNDM-that clears that up then.

So Ustinov , Niven, Sellers, Ali (ad nauseum) all didn't want their noses to grow either. Perhaps we should think of them as two "uncle" Peters, an uncle David and an especially avuncular but incredibly entertaining Uncle Mohammed.

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by Nick » Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:07 pm

Diane D. wrote:
Nick wrote:We all know Alice embellishes or "dresses up" a lot of his anecdotes. I personally don't see why it would bother anyone. Alice is a pure showman and entertainer, if there was a vindictive or malicious edge to his stories, then that's one thing. But there's not. Most "legendary" tales that have been spread or repeated by various entertainers over the years are embellished to some extent. Interesting topic, but I think if someone really takes issue with this, then then they're looking at it a little too hard.

We all know that Alice is a great showman and entertainer, BUT, could he be himself once, just once, is that too much to ask? Just a question, in English.
He IS being himself, himself being Alice Cooper the entertainer and showman.If we like what he's selling, we buy it. If we don't, we keep our wallets in our pockets. Beyond being Alice Cooper as we the fans know him, he doesn't owe us anything. Some may disagree with that and feel he's obligated to do or be something "more", but I don't see the logic. The original Alice Cooper myth was built on embellished stories and fantasies, it's part of the whole package.
Every time he does an interview, he'll dip into his bag of stories and tell a few of them and every time without fail it gets a huge pop from the crowd. That's showbiz folks and he is a showman.
The one thing I take out of it all, is that he is a genuine guy, meaning the happy go lucky and friendly guy you see on the talk show circuit is the same guy you meet if you bump into him on the street or meet him backstage. Which gets back to my original point...he IS being Alice Cooper and doesn't particulaly owe anybody anything.

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:20 pm

>Dear Jeebus in heaven, it meant I had no interest in answering those questions.

That is irrelevant. Only 'yes' or 'no' was allowed. No explanations required until asked for and you haven't provided explanation when they were which is interesting.

>I would word it differently but essentially this is true -

That is a major contradiction. How, on the one hand, can you agree with me that Alice doesn't owe us anything, yet on the other, you act like a spurned lover just because he doesn't tell what you seem to think is the truth?

>- regardless of how amuk wants to stamp out all dissention.

Obviously, that is a ridiculous statement.

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:24 pm

>They all, in many instances feature, I believe, embellished stories and elements of stretching the truth because the context demands it.

Just making that point for what must now be the third time, unfortunately doesn't seem to matter to some people here, as they either refuse to address it or are unable to understand it.

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:27 pm

>No one responded so I will ask again more directly (and respectfully) to Toronto Bob and GNDM:
Within the context I have described why should Alice be any different to the thousands of other performers who do exactly the same when interviewed?

The former gentleman you refer to is the one who needs to answer that.

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by Diane D. » Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:47 pm

Nick wrote:
Diane D. wrote:
Nick wrote:We all know Alice embellishes or "dresses up" a lot of his anecdotes. I personally don't see why it would bother anyone. Alice is a pure showman and entertainer, if there was a vindictive or malicious edge to his stories, then that's one thing. But there's not. Most "legendary" tales that have been spread or repeated by various entertainers over the years are embellished to some extent. Interesting topic, but I think if someone really takes issue with this, then then they're looking at it a little too hard.

We all know that Alice is a great showman and entertainer, BUT, could he be himself once, just once, is that too much to ask? Just a question, in English.
He IS being himself, himself being Alice Cooper the entertainer and showman.If we like what he's selling, we buy it. If we don't, we keep our wallets in our pockets. Beyond being Alice Cooper as we the fans know him, he doesn't owe us anything. Some may disagree with that and feel he's obligated to do or be something "more", but I don't see the logic. The original Alice Cooper myth was built on embellished stories and fantasies, it's part of the whole package.
Every time he does an interview, he'll dip into his bag of stories and tell a few of them and every time without fail it gets a huge pop from the crowd. That's showbiz folks and he is a showman.
The one thing I take out of it all, is that he is a genuine guy, meaning the happy go lucky and friendly guy you see on the talk show circuit is the same guy you meet if you bump into him on the street or meet him backstage. Which gets back to my original point...he IS being Alice Cooper and doesn't particulaly owe anybody anything.
Of course, I never said that he owe something to me or any other fans. I agree with you with all the points you said. Showman, must be a friendly guy in Meet and Greets, you know better than me, as per your avatar, you've met him. As per bumping into him, Mmmm, O.K., it's lunch time at the office, going out for a smoke, I'm going to check if Alice is standing on the corner of the street. I'll be back to say if I saw him.
Last edited by Diane D. on Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by Diane D. » Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:02 pm

Brrr, kind of cold out there... O.K., nope... no Alice on the corner of the streets. Maybe tomorrow...
[

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by old school vet » Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:24 pm

tim 10cc wrote - Its 1977 ...Alice was at one of his heights of his drinking career....As far as we know in Alice's head Frank performed You & Me...

When I am drunk...I hear Frank singing You & Me and when I am really drunk I hear Blue Eyes singing King of the Silver Screen.

And I've just seen Elvis in the chip shop......

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by Seriously » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:55 pm

[quote="Nick"]

Beyond being Alice Cooper as we the fans know him, he doesn't owe us anything. Some may disagree with that and feel he's obligated to do or be something "more", but I don't see the logic.


I certainly will disagree, I lent him 5 quid when he was on Top of the Pops in 72 and that was the last I seen of that the scoundrel!

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by recoop » Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:01 pm

After a lot of thinking, I am overall quite glad if FS didnt cover AC- but would feel a lot better if someone could prove he definitely didn't. :bam:
You are an individual, just like everybody else.

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by Toronto Bob » Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:38 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:>Dear Jeebus in heaven, it meant I had no interest in answering those questions.

That is irrelevant. Only 'yes' or 'no' was allowed. No explanations required until asked for and you haven't provided explanation when they were which is interesting.

>I would word it differently but essentially this is true -

That is a major contradiction. How, on the one hand, can you agree with me that Alice doesn't owe us anything, yet on the other, you act like a spurned lover just because he doesn't tell what you seem to think is the truth?

>- regardless of how amuk wants to stamp out all dissention.

Obviously, that is a ridiculous statement.
I like how you say "only yes or no was allowed" - like you're in charge of something

There is no contradiction, I haven't relied on information Alice has said during his interviews, for many years (like pre-internet). I only judge him on his recorded output and the tours - and he's failed to put out a great album in decades and the performance are kinda rote these days, so the live shows are nothing to get to excited about.

Pointing out and laughing at Alice's bs is not acting like a spurned lover, it's just acknowledging that Alice and the truth are merely casual acquaintances. That doesn't disappoint me, crummy albums do. These days I'm far more entertained reading you getting all wound up.

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by Toronto Bob » Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:40 pm

recoop wrote:After a lot of thinking, I am overall quite glad if FS didnt cover AC- but would feel a lot better if someone could prove he definitely didn't. :bam:
I think it should be someone proving that Sinatra did cover Alice, not the other way around.

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by A_MichaelUK » Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:44 pm

>I like how you say "only yes or no was allowed" - like you're in charge of something

Exactly. I wanted to ask you specific questions with simple answers and if I need an explanation, I'll ask for it. The reason is that I don't want there to be any confusion about what it is you think.

> I only judge him on his recorded output and the tours

That isn't really true though. You've already proclaimed him to be a "compulsive liar" so you've already passed judgement.

> performance are kinda rote these days, so the live shows are nothing to get to excited about.

I really don't see what that has to do with this thread. Why not start a new thread on that subject? I am willing to be that the majority of people who have seen more than one show in recent years would disagree with that.

>Pointing out and laughing at Alice's bs is not acting like a spurned lover, it's just acknowledging that Alice and the truth are merely casual acquaintances.

That is an extraordinary piece of back - pedalling, but that isn't surprising. You didn't 'point and laugh' - you went way beyond that.

>These days I'm far more entertained reading you getting all wound up.

Idiots have that effect. By the way, in case you're hoping your diversion worked, I'm still waiting for you to answer my earlier question. Are you now claiming that Neal and Dennis are also "compulsive" liars, just as you accused Alice of being.

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by Robbie » Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:02 am

I'm still waiting for an answer to my earlier question too!!!! GNDM clearly couldn't give a reasonable answer as his response was facetious to say the least (despite calling people "minions") . Perhaps Toronto Bob can answer but I am not holding my breath...

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by A_MichaelUK » Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:20 am

>I'm still waiting for an answer to my earlier question too!!!! GNDM clearly couldn't give a reasonable answer as his response was facetious to say the least (despite calling people "minions") . Perhaps Toronto Bob can answer but I am not holding my breath...

They hold different positions, though. The former understands why Alice tells those stories whereas the latter does not.

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by Robbie » Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:28 pm

I apologise to GNDM if I have misread his position-it's just that he says he understands Toronto Bob's point of view on this and I don't!!!

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by GNDM » Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:45 pm

Robbie - I understand Toronto Bob's view in the context of Alice putting forth inaccurate or wrong information about the past. Someone seeking historical facts could be put off by Alice's embellished tales. However, I see the reasons behind Alices' yarns....PR, creating quality interviews, and a way of entertaining the fans - many of them more interested in a good story as opposed to exact facts. Alice is in the entertainment business after all.

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by Devon » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:10 pm

Another angle on this. While by nature many of us who are hardcore fans are more interested in the full stories, I think sometimes stories are embellished or sugar coated to protect the integrity of others involved in situations that he's asked about. Think about it. How often do you hear Alice saying something negative about someone?

I.E. the breakup. Alice had maintained in interviews that the other band members wanted less theatrics. The other band members have denied this of course and it can be argued that they are right (see Battle Axe.) However, when you get into things like the Old School Box Set where this is discussed a little more intimately and Alice opens up a little more then it comes down to what sounded like burn out and of course Glen was a factor. Alice isn't going to go around in interviews with major publications and say "We were tired of each other, the last album we did stunk, and our guitar player and best friend since high school became useless." Sometimes I think Alice would rather make something up than potentially hurt someone.

That's just my observation.

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by A_MichaelUK » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:30 pm

>Sometimes I think Alice would rather make something up than potentially hurt someone.

That is absolutely correct, but for some reason, some people seem to think they are owed the 'truth' as if they are entitled to it (and as if every other celebrity ever has ONLY ever spoken the 'truth').

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