Tour 2017!

[mestreech]

Strange? Is this a British thing because on the European mainland the ticketsales are normal.

[pitkin88]

I have just published a long blog post about tickets and touts, largely inspired by the Alice fiasco this year and also encompassing the recent Depeche Mode gig in Glasgow - sales for which were handled even worse.

https://embracetheabsurdity.wordpress.c ... -festival/

That was a great read. It's all about the money not the fans. There are few dinosaurs out there that I would actually consider seeing so it really doesnt affect me at all. The whole meet and fleece is just disgusting. The best thing people can do is vote with your wallet and say go to hell with your piss poor experiences. There are plenty of great small bands out there that you can support.

[pitkin88]

I'm thinking of going to both nights in Dublin. Does anyone have any idea if the set changes much from night to night? I know most of the time he plays a standard enough set for the whole tour but if it's the same city, does it change up much?

His comments to the audience don't even change never mind the set!!

[pitkin88]

I have just published a long blog post about tickets and touts, largely inspired by the Alice fiasco this year and also encompassing the recent Depeche Mode gig in Glasgow - sales for which were handled even worse.

https://embracetheabsurdity.wordpress.c ... -festival/

Well said. Couldn`t agree more. The industry has sucked the joy out of going to shows by their greed (scalping their own tickets, HUGE car parking fees to attend, over priced food/drink) and inability to do a simple job properly.

I could tell you about having to buy TM "platinum" tickets for Wembley (when nothing worth buying went on sale), only to later discover when the receipt arrived that the TM website invisibly redirected you to Birmingham show tickets at the final confirmation page, selling me and others their over priced scalped tickets for the wrong show.
When on the phone to get a refund, we discovered the Wembley site had been "updated", and was now silently redirecting to sell you tickets to the Manchester show!
Pathetic. This is the biggest ticketing company in the world and they can`t do the basic job correctly or honestly.
We got our refund, but only under protest as they "weren't legal obliged" to refund our money after selling us the wrong tickets. What rubbish.

Si, you should NEVER have to pay for a ticket to any Alice show you want to see. You are pretty much an unpaid employee with what you do here. I am being sincere by the way.

[Si]

I have just published a long blog post about tickets and touts, largely inspired by the Alice fiasco this year and also encompassing the recent Depeche Mode gig in Glasgow - sales for which were handled even worse.

https://embracetheabsurdity.wordpress.c ... -festival/

Well said. Couldn`t agree more. The industry has sucked the joy out of going to shows by their greed (scalping their own tickets, HUGE car parking fees to attend, over priced food/drink) and inability to do a simple job properly.

I could tell you about having to buy TM "platinum" tickets for Wembley (when nothing worth buying went on sale), only to later discover when the receipt arrived that the TM website invisibly redirected you to Birmingham show tickets at the final confirmation page, selling me and others their over priced scalped tickets for the wrong show.
When on the phone to get a refund, we discovered the Wembley site had been "updated", and was now silently redirecting to sell you tickets to the Manchester show!
Pathetic. This is the biggest ticketing company in the world and they can`t do the basic job correctly or honestly.
We got our refund, but only under protest as they "weren't legal obliged" to refund our money after selling us the wrong tickets. What rubbish.

Si, you should NEVER have to pay for a ticket to any Alice show you want to see. You are pretty much an unpaid employee with what you do here. I am being sincere by the way.

I pay my own way the same as everyone else, as I should. However what I will say is that when circumstances arise where I can`t get a ticket for any reason Toby, Kyler and co have always been exceptionally helpful and generous for which I am very grateful. For example some years back we wanted to go to a show in Italy, but tickets were only available *in person* from a shop in Florence! I reached out for help and Brian had tickets and passes left at the gate for us AND refused payment for them. Just one example of quite a few I could give.
So I'm perfectly happy and grateful that I *can* reach out if there's an issue, and Toby, Kyler or the band members always do their best to sort it out, not just for me but for many many fans, often going above and beyond to help. We are genuinely lucky to have them.

[concolz]

It's all about the money not the fans. There are few dinosaurs out there that I would actually consider seeing so it really doesnt affect me at all. The whole meet and fleece is just disgusting. The best thing people can do is vote with your wallet and say go to hell with your piss poor experiences. There are plenty of great small bands out there that you can support.

Exactly how I feel. 'They' want the gullible/'desperate' to fall in to line, like good little automatons; convince 'you' of a need to buy. 'Meet & Greets' - especially tying them to the best seats - expose the greedy contempt that many artists have for fans.

Just say no. Let the dinosaurs become extinct.

[wind_up_toy]

I have just published a long blog post about tickets and touts, largely inspired by the Alice fiasco this year and also encompassing the recent Depeche Mode gig in Glasgow - sales for which were handled even worse.

https://embracetheabsurdity.wordpress.c ... -festival/

Oh I did enjoy reading this, well done Sir.

My first Alice gig was in 2000, I pad £17 to watch him from the front row in Portsmouth and had an absolute blast. In 2017, I'm paying about 4 times the price to watch him (play a largely repetitive set) from a lofty position in Glasgow. Coupled with the fact that I now have a wife and I'm looking at little to no change out of £100 for a few hours of entertainment.

Conversely, I recently saw an immense melodic rock band called Vega serve up a stunning set at the Robin2 in Bilston. It was an 800 capacity venue, I got there 15 minutes before doors and just waltzed in to the front. What's more, I got to 'meet and greet' the band at the bar afterwards FOR FREE.

What a bitter sweet state of affairs

[A_MichaelUK]

From concolz:
"'Meet & Greets' - especially tying them to the best seats - expose the greedy contempt that many artists have for fans."

Nobody is forcing anyone to buy them though. In that sense, it's no difference to choosing buying an album, a piece of merchandise or a concert ticket or choosing not to. The market always decides.

>Just say no. Let the dinosaurs become extinct.

While I have a little bit sympathy for your position (as extreme, unrealistic and fundamentalist as it always seems to be) there are people who do want to take part and can afford to and for them there is no alternative. Again, the market always decides. I also don't like how tickets are now tied into those packages but again, the market will decide and so far, it is not saying "no".

[A_MichaelUK]

From wind_up_toy:
"Conversely, I recently saw an immense melodic rock band called Vega serve up a stunning set at the Robin2 in Bilston. It was an 800 capacity venue, I got there 15 minutes before doors and just waltzed in to the front. What's more, I got to 'meet and greet' the band at the bar afterwards FOR FREE."

There is something you may not have considered though. If in, say, five decades from now, that band is playing arenas and has the same status as, say, Alice does, then you will not be able to do any of the things you just mentioned. People want their favourite artists to be popular but not too popular. I have heard fans complain when Alice is playing small venues because it reflects badly on his status commercially (and therefore reflects badly on them as fans) and I have heard fans complain that he is playing big arenas and they complain about that because they can't get seats at the front.

[wind_up_toy]

From wind_up_toy:
"Conversely, I recently saw an immense melodic rock band called Vega serve up a stunning set at the Robin2 in Bilston. It was an 800 capacity venue, I got there 15 minutes before doors and just waltzed in to the front. What's more, I got to 'meet and greet' the band at the bar afterwards FOR FREE."

There is something you may not have considered though. If in, say, five decades from now, that band is playing arenas and has the same status as, say, Alice does, then you will not be able to do any of the things you just mentioned. People want their favourite artists to be popular but not too popular. I have heard fans complain when Alice is playing small venues because it reflects badly on his status commercially (and therefore reflects badly on them as fans) and I have heard fans complain that he is playing big arenas and they complain about that because they can't get seats at the front.

Yes, I do hope Vega make it big and no doubt they would follow a similar path (supply and demand and all). The reality is that the music business has changed massively since 2000 and the commercial models have been innovated to find new ways of generating revenue which ultimately puts those with the greatest disposable income in an advantageous position. This is nothing new though, we've seen it in football too, but the consequence is that the working classes are relegated to the periphery.

The good news is that there's some cracking quality 'non-league' action out there at an affordable price.

[jram]

Oh I did enjoy reading this, well done Sir.

Thanks everyone who has taken the time to read, or left nice comments, and for sharing if you did - I put a ridiculous amount of time into writing, rewriting, editing, and proofreading these things.

For my part, I've given up on arena shows - I'd like to see Metallica, Kiss, Iron Maiden (missing them for first time in 19 years), Black Sabbath, etc, but not at those prices. Alice is the last, I'd even think twice about Depeche Mode now. All of the joy is gone.

March was a good month, though - I went to see Blaze Bayley (ex Maiden, Wolfsbane) play to 200. Also saw:
Vitalic (French techno producer, played a nightclub to 1000)
Mortiis and <PIG>, double headliner in the same place Blaze played;
Sumo Cyco and Splintered Halo, female fronted hardcore and character driven metal respectively (AC fans should check out Halo) in a 200-club;
Underworld (Lager Lager Lager Lager) headline the Alexandra Palace;
The Algorithm (French techno/metal crossover) support a prog act called Haken, again to 200 or so;
Goldfrapp/Sparks, part of the 6Music Festival (found a spare ticket on social media);
Depeche Mode at the Barrowland (6Music Fest gig, covered in the blog);
Delphi, a friend's son's band, in a pub basement;
and, on 1st April, Lords Of The Land festival - Mayhem, Marduk, Venom, others, in an all-dayer at the 2000-capacity Barras.

So aye, there's plenty still out there if you accept that arena bands are no longer worth the expense or hassle. There's a certain irony to the fact that the people who attend the most gigs, and put regular money into their local scene over the years, are the ones who can no longer afford to buy tickets.

[pitkin88]

From concolz:
"'Meet & Greets' - especially tying them to the best seats - expose the greedy contempt that many artists have for fans."

Nobody is forcing anyone to buy them though. In that sense, it's no difference to choosing buying an album, a piece of merchandise or a concert ticket or choosing not to. The market always decides.

>Just say no. Let the dinosaurs become extinct.

While I have a little bit sympathy for your position (as extreme, unrealistic and fundamentalist as it always seems to be) there are people who do want to take part and can afford to and for them there is no alternative. Again, the market always decides. I also don't like how tickets are now tied into those packages but again, the market will decide and so far, it is not saying "no".

[cut] the market. The artist can decide whether they want to fleece their fans with a quick few minutes photo op. Where's the integrity?

[Si]

[cut] the market. The artist can decide whether they want to fleece their fans with a quick few minutes photo op. Where's the integrity?

While I agree in principle (no secret I hate the VIP tickets), I also know it's harder and harder for bands to make money even touring. The VIPs bring in a substantial amount of money that goes towards paying everyone's wages and keeps the show on the road. No one is making the kind of profits they did even 10 years ago.

Having said that, and accepting the truth that adding tickets to the packages sold more VIP packages, I still think it stinks and crosses the line. I don`t care what special things VIPs get in packages (I once suggested instead of tickets giving them comfy chairs and personal TV monitors ), but they should have the same chance as everyone else at the best seats for the show. Otherwise it's just about who has the most money to burn and most of us just don`t have enough, especially for multiple shows.

[A_MichaelUK]

From Si:
"I also know it's harder and harder for bands to make money even touring. The VIPs bring in a substantial amount of money that goes towards paying everyone's wages and keeps the show on the road. No one is making the kind of profits they did even 10 years ago."

Exactly and it's interesting that pitkin88 is against this (and like you, I understand and have a little sympathy with his position)when he was the one who was telling us (and someone do correct me if I'm wrong) that artists shouldn't mind their stuff being downloaded for free and that they had to get used to making less money from record sales.

>Having said that, and accepting the truth that adding tickets to the packages sold more VIP packages, I still think it stinks and crosses the line.

Yes. They should be separate.

[pitkin88]

From Si:
"I also know it's harder and harder for bands to make money even touring. The VIPs bring in a substantial amount of money that goes towards paying everyone's wages and keeps the show on the road. No one is making the kind of profits they did even 10 years ago."

Exactly and it's interesting that pitkin88 is against this (and like you, I understand and have a little sympathy with his position)when he was the one who was telling us (and someone do correct me if I'm wrong) that artists shouldn't mind their stuff being downloaded for free and that they had to get used to making less money from record sales.

>Having said that, and accepting the truth that adding tickets to the packages sold more VIP packages, I still think it stinks and crosses the line.

Yes. They should be separate.

You are wrong. Nice try though.

[A_MichaelUK]

From pitkin88:
"You are wrong. Nice try though."

In a previous thread about whether or not it's worth making new albums, you wrote:
"There is no point in closing the gate after the horse has bolted and this horse has well and truly bolted. You are completely wasting your time and should be looking for other avenues to make income."

In case anyone thinks I am taking the quote out of context, people are free to search the archive.

[pitkin88]

From pitkin88:
"You are wrong. Nice try though."

In a previous thread about whether or not it's worth making new albums, you wrote:
"There is no point in closing the gate after the horse has bolted and this horse has well and truly bolted. You are completely wasting your time and should be looking for other avenues to make income."

In case anyone thinks I am taking the quote out of context, people are free to search the archive.

Meet and fleece is not one of them. Do you still yell at CD burners in your off time? The internet must have almost sent you onto cardiac arrest. Are TDK live shows still three quid?

[A_MichaelUK]

From pitkin88:
"Meet and fleece is not one of them."

Who says so? If people want to spend money on one of those packages, why would you want to stop them from doing so? Why does it matter to you what people do with their own money?

> Do you still yell at CD burners in your off time?

That is old - fashioned technology.

>The internet must have almost sent you onto cardiac arrest.

Not really although I might be even more militant if I had lost my job because of it.

>Are TDK live shows still three quid?

For you, they would now be free of any charge.

[Maaki]

The artist can decide whether they want to fleece their fans with a quick few minutes photo op. Where's the integrity?

No one is forced to pony up. I guess you don't want to, and that is fine by me.

You use such harsh words. Do you think there was integrity back in the day? When record companies sold 2 penny records for a pound?

If anything this new order puts the little money there is circulating closer to the artitst. But I guess that can't be good either, since it isn't the early 70's amirite?

[pitkin88]

The artist can decide whether they want to fleece their fans with a quick few minutes photo op. Where's the integrity?

No one is forced to pony up. I guess you don't want to, and that is fine by me.

You use such harsh words. Do you think there was integrity back in the day? When record companies sold 2 penny records for a pound?

If anything this new order puts the little money there is circulating closer to the artitst. But I guess that can't be good either, since it isn't the early 70's amirite?

No one is forced to pony up? They are if they want the great seats they used to get in the past for a fraction of the cost. You think there is " little " money in this? As far as the record companies two wrongs don't make a right. Alice Live and for the Wealthy would make a good lp. Maybe on one of those $30 sticks with no encore.