Disappointed by the show: a question

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Marcelocooper
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Re: Disappointed by the show: a question

Post by Marcelocooper » Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:37 pm

I'm actually pretty happy Alice is still there playing. I love every show I go, and I'm pretty satisfied with his last sets. I, opposite to most of other hardcore fans, think Alice can really put on a great set, with some hits and some more obscure songs every time. From all of the artists I've seen, he is actually the one who does it the most.

Of course as a fan I would love to see a show full of classic theatrical stuff and a set that's filled with never played live songs.
But I do understand why it does not happen, and I must admit that I cry the entire show every time I see him, no matter what he plays. So it's safe to say I'm aways satisfied.

As for downloading the music, the biggest problem is exactly that you can't see how much of a success the album really was. The facebbok pool did help to see that a little. Until the song is actually played live you can't tell how much of a popularity it would get, as no one have the ways to see how many people downloaded the album illegally. It's impossible to see if, despite the fact that W2MN wasn't a commercial success, it was well received by his audience, both hardcore fans and casual listeners, since most of the casual listeners hardly bought the album. But, if they all downloaded the album, no one will ever know, and so this songs will probably end up never played.
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Re: Disappointed by the show: a question

Post by GNDM » Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:47 pm

A_MichaelUK:
That was in the past - now it is different. A "casual fan" does not need to go to a show to hear new songs. If he cares that much, he can find that stuff online very easily. I really don't want to have to explain this again.
100% correct. And I just can't see how anyone cannot understand that. (Unless they are under some delusion that AC and his management/band sit down before each tour and say, "How can we satisfy those guys on the Sickthings list?)
:(

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Re: Disappointed by the show: a question

Post by A_MichaelUK » Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:44 pm

>But I do understand why it does not happen, and I must admit that I cry the entire show every time I see him,

The shows aren't that bad!

>As for downloading the music, the biggest problem is exactly that you can't see how much of a success the album really was.

Actually (at least in theory) it is easier. It is easier to very if how many times a track is downloaded (and streamed as well). Everynow and again, we all hear about a track that has been downloaded a million times for example (and you can see how many times something is viewed on YouTube as well).

> It's impossible to see if, despite the fact that W2MN wasn't a commercial success, it was well received by his audience, both hardcore fans and casual listeners, since most of the casual listeners hardly bought the album.

No, I think the opposite is true in so far that you can tell from people's comments on sites such as this and in media outlets as well. I think there were very few bad reviews.
Last edited by A_MichaelUK on Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Disappointed by the show: a question

Post by AlongCameASpider27 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:45 pm

I didn't want to start a new thread for this but has it been said that this show will continue next summer like Alice typically does? I for one can't wait to see He's Back and Congregation performed live on my side of the States.
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Re: Disappointed by the show: a question

Post by Marcelocooper » Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:49 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:>But I do understand why it does not happen, and I must admit that I cry the entire show every time I see him,

The shows aren't that bad!
The end aways are. It sucks to see him going away! i'm getting to hate elected for that sensation!

And, it actually got me a good conversation with Alice, as I was kinda messed up after the show (Alice Cooper make up with one hour and a half of tears isn't too good for anyone's face)
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Re: Disappointed by the show: a question

Post by Diane D. » Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:52 pm

Marcelocooper wrote:
A_MichaelUK wrote:>But I do understand why it does not happen, and I must admit that I cry the entire show every time I see him,

The shows aren't that bad!
The end aways are. It sucks to see him going away! i'm getting to hate elected for that sensation!

And, it actually got me a good conversation with Alice, as I was kinda messed up after the show (Alice Cooper make up with one hour and a half of tears isn't too good for anyone's face)
Strange comment... What do you mean, Marcelocooper?
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Re: Disappointed by the show: a question

Post by Marcelocooper » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:09 pm

I was wearing the Alice Cooper classic make up, and during the show it kind of got really messed up... So, when i went to the meet and great Alice actually said "I think your make up is a little bit messed up"... And then I started to tell how much I enjoyed the show and we had a really great talking about the show and the band, and the set list for that show.

Sorry if it is confusing or misleading, english is not my native language.



Actually (at least in theory) it is easier. It is easier to very if how many times a track is downloaded (and streamed as well). Everynow and again, we all hear about a track that has been downloaded a million times for example (and you can see how many times something is viewed on YouTube as well).



Never thought of that.

One thing I do know: I'll bite your face off hadn't even been released at the time Alice came to Brazil, and yet it did get a good response from the audience. And it was one of the first shows he played the song.

As I said, I don't think the set is bad and neither that Alice has to choose the songs I need to hear. I actually aways said that just because he didn't play the music you would like to hear he is making a bad choice or even he's not playing obscure songs.
But I think that, even though it does work 99% of the times, sometimes the popularity of certain songs can be surprising. He's back wouldn't be on the set if it wasn't for the facebook pool, as far as I know. Love's a Loaded Gun was one of those songs no one think of when making a set, and yet it proved to be very popular. The same can be said about Hey Stoopid, which is being played only because people started to ask Alice on the street and it DID have the greatest reaction from the audience besides for Poison and School's Out.

Again, not saying I don't understand or even agree with what has already been said, just saying that sometimes even thought I do agree it is the safest choice, it doesn't mean people, and I mean casual and hardcore fans, don't like that song. It doesn't go anywhere beyond that, I know Alice has his reasons and respect that.
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Re: Disappointed by the show: a question

Post by wind_up_toy » Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:55 pm

Just throwing something else into the mix, maybe the fact that Alice tours the UK comprehensively almost every year results in undue criticism (from some) about his shows. A year really isn't that long in reality so it must be very difficult and uneconomical to radically change the overall content so often.

Take another artist in Michael Jackson, he toured sporadically and received rave reviews for innovating and diversifying his shows. In reality though, many of the songs were the same 'hits' and the new ones were from whatever album came out in the 5 or so years between touring. It would have been almost impossible to do this on an annual cycle for a number of reasons (money, time and the fact that attendances would be smaller if each country was visited more regularly).

If you looked at the rotation of songs, executions and sets that Alice has had over a 5 year period then I reckon it would look most diverse. With Alice these days it's evolution not revolution!

So, in summary, if someone said would I prefer to see Alice every year with a similar show or once every 2-3 years but have a bigger / more varied show I'd choose the former every time. I need my regular fix of Alice!

I still don't agree with the covers but other criticism is undue, in my opinion.
Last edited by wind_up_toy on Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Disappointed by the show: a question

Post by Robbie » Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:59 pm

Just to address some of the points raised.
Recoop, Spider and Scotty: no problem with pointing out my apparent contradiction.We are all Alice fans just sharing our opinions. In truth I probably didn't make myself as clear as I could (if we were talking about it over a beer I would probably have been clearer...or not depending on the time of night!!)it's the problem with this type of communication!
To try to clarify I have always enjoyed the visual side of the shows and part of that enjoyment is the way the traditional elements of the shows the nurse, snake, rag dolls, executions etc. etc. appear different each time because of the song they may follow or precede or which song they are used on. This coupled with a coherent concept to the stage set gives them in my view, a freshness for each tour. So for examples although we have seen Alice executed by hanging on other tours (usually after dead babies / Killer) on TOD he was singing "I never Cry" and the way he was cut short mid chorus was quite startling. He used the platform on Vengeance on TOD but Black widow on the NMMNG tour with the addition of the pyros in his hand. The Frankenstein built on the Constrictor tour reappeared again on Raise your Fist and Yell but without the process of building it. If you then add two or three surprises visually you have in my opinion a very effective show. Put another way it is the deployment of old ideas in new ways that can be interesting where I felt the props I refer to in my original post where utilised in the usual way.
Pain addict:Although I like the spectacle you make a good point about some of the smaller gestures being theatrical too.One of my favourite Alice moments was on Special Forces. After being handed a drink by a cowering roadie at the side of the stage the hawkish General Alice rinsed his mouth out and spat it out all over the unfortunate roadie. Priceless and cheap!!
AndyThanks for clarifying points regarding the importance of the economics. I suppose it is a question of economy of scale. At what point does the investment require either:
(a) A hike in ticket prices (unpopular)
(b) Keeping ticket prices the same but putting the show on in bigger venues (potentially unpopular- give me Manchester Apollo over the MEN any day).
I am however surprised by the huge change in the economic landscape since the eighties shows.
For what it's worth I will of course go to the next Alice show but will in light of this experience lower my expectations somewhat- I have already discounted any Billion dollar Baby reunion tours as just Alice pleasantly musing!!!!!

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Re: Disappointed by the show: a question

Post by A_MichaelUK » Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:10 pm

>But I think that, even though it does work 99% of the times, sometimes the popularity of certain songs can be surprising. He's back wouldn't be on the set if it wasn't for the facebook pool, as far as I know.

Maybe the time of year helped as well.

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Re: Disappointed by the show: a question

Post by shock rock » Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:10 pm

I think the reality is Alice is not high profile like AC/DC,Aerosmith,Ozzy ect . He has a very loyal cult following,and a big budget show vis-a vis with cd sales.....does not equate to a show like the original "Nightmare"or something in his heyday...Its not going to happen unless he has a "hit" cd akin To "Trash" and the single "Poison" where there will be a great interest above and beyond his core following.

As far as W2MN goes,i don't see it as an unqualified success.Yes,it charted good,coming in at #22 on the Billboard charts,but disappeared from the Top 200 within 3 weeks.Sometimes The Soundscan charting system can be quite misleading.You have great first week numbers,then plunge rapidly for many acts,whereas "Trash" peaked at #20 under the old charting system but stayed on the Top 200 for months.Probably "W2MN" in those days,may not even cracked the Top 100.who knows.


Alice is approaching 65,and he still has a seemingly great desire to still tour every year,and when i go see him in concert...i figure it could very well be his last show that i witness........ipso facto...enjoy whatever he has to offer,because you never know when he will hang it up!
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Re: Disappointed by the show: a question

Post by A_MichaelUK » Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:19 pm

>AndyThanks for clarifying points regarding the importance of the economics.

No problem at all.

> At what point does the investment require either:
(a) A hike in ticket prices (unpopular)
(b) Keeping ticket prices the same but putting the show on in bigger venues (potentially unpopular- give me Manchester Apollo over the MEN any day).

The people who deal with this stuff tend to have a good idea of how much income there will be. They then have to create a production that will not cost more to put on than it will generate.

>I am however surprised by the huge change in the economic landscape since the eighties shows.

Travel costs, equipment costs, salaries and hotels all make touring very expensive.

>I have already discounted any Billion dollar Baby reunion tours as just Alice pleasantly musing!!!!!

He wasn't doing even that. He was asked a question and he answered it.

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Re: Disappointed by the show: a question

Post by While Heaven Wept » Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:31 pm

One of the best Alice shows i've been to over the last few years was at the 100 club. No stage show, lights, theatrics etc.

All of that is irrelevant. I just wanna hear the band playing my favourite songs well.

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Re: Disappointed by the show: a question

Post by While Heaven Wept » Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:32 pm

further to that.....i would absolutely love to see Alice just do some small arena shows.

I pine for the days of the London Astoria again.

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Re: Disappointed by the show: a question

Post by WillDouglas77 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:19 pm

AlongCameASpider27 wrote:I didn't want to start a new thread for this but has it been said that this show will continue next summer like Alice typically does? I for one can't wait to see He's Back and Congregation performed live on my side of the States.
I'm with you on this ! I would love to hear He's Back live ! Hopefully he will hit Biloxi again !!! :alice:

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Re: Disappointed by the show: a question

Post by drgntwn99 » Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:23 am

Constrictor is my favourite album so I was so pumped to hear "He's Back" live for the first time. I loved how heavier and less cheese it sounded live haha.
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Re: Disappointed by the show: a question

Post by Mike Drew » Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:54 am

Only seen the show once..Wembley....All I'm gonna say is....I Loved It,Coop & Co were on fire! :clap:
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Re: Disappointed by the show: a question

Post by del » Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:57 am

So, lets summarise...

We all have a little disappointment at not getting the show that was hinted at BUT this has happened before and will no doubt happen again. Lesson 1 - Don't get carried away with Alice's stated intentions as it never quite happens that way...

We all have different wants regarding setlist, props, venues and scale of the show BUT we have had influence on the set both before and after the tour started. Lesson 2 - Sometimes it is good to reflect on what you have achieved rather than always want more..

We are not as confident about the tour as we might have been BUT we are seeing lots of positive comments coming out from the gigs shows so far! Having see him at Wembley myself he absolutely blew me away with his enthusiasm, the set (even the covers!) the band (all of them) and the theatrics (the sword, baloons, fireworks, monster etc and the ringmaster himself are all there afterall!) Lesson 3 - Sometimes we need to remember that it is the quality of the act itself which makes a show successful and Alice is one hell of an act. Thats why we love him...

See you in Edinburgh Alice - can't wait!!

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Re: Disappointed by the show: a question

Post by A_MichaelUK » Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:21 am

>Lesson 1 - Don't get carried away with Alice's stated intentions as it never quite happens that way...

I wonder if you will end up having to repeat that as often as I seem to have to.

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Re: Disappointed by the show: a question

Post by Shoesalesman » Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:43 pm

Haven't been disappointed yet in all the shows I've seen over the years. IMO the experience of the show is as important, maybe even more, to what's played in it.
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