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[mattcoddington]

I'd probably make a complete fool out of myself if I met alice.

you wouldn't be the first, and you wouldn't be the last.

[Si]

the vip packages don't come with tickets. they are UPGRADE packages.

That's fine. I just don`t think they should include early admission.

isn't it a bit arrogant to say, 'i MUST be at the front for EVERY show'?

With respect, I don`t think anyone has said that.
There is a difference between making every effort to be at the front for a show, and *expecting* to be at the front.. or saying "Must be" in any other way then to mean "really want to be".
I think that if you are in the front of the queue before the doors open, you can reasonably "expect" to be able to get to the barrier. If you don't get to the barrier because a bunch of people with more money are wanding in before advertised opening time, I think it's fair to be a little pised off, especially if that isn`t advertised in advance (not the case here I agree).

some of you pay your dues by waiting in the rain and cold and running to get your front spot. fair enough. but other pay their dues by working 60 hours a week so that they can save up enough money for a vip upgrade package that would allow them to also get a good spot.

That is a fair point, but we'll have to agree to disagree. If you want to be at the front, you make sure you aren`t working that day, same as the rest of us do, then enjoy your VIP packages aftershow etc.

Too many times I've stood behind VIP laminate holders who seem to have no interest in the show whatsoever, don't know the 90% of the songs and wander in and out for beers, talking all through, sitting down throughout, (This is normally at seated venues, so I agree not a direct comparison) and leaving before the encore (and not to do Balloons). They aren`t big fans,if fans at all.
One occasion a couple in front wanted the M&G to get Alice to sign stuff for ebaying. They figured they could still make a profit even after the package price (I know, seems unlikely to me as well).

[mattcoddington]

That's fine. I just don`t think they should include early admission.

i know. and i'm genuinely interested in your opinion. not trying to be argumentative.

With respect, I don`t think anyone has said that.

not in this thread, but it does seem to be the mind-set of several 'die-hard' fans online. nothing wrong with wanting to have a good spot at any show. but it's always nice to keep others in mind too.

There is a difference between making every effort to be at the front for a show, and *expecting* to be at the front.. or saying "Must be" in any other way then to mean "really want to be".

i agree.

I think that if you are in the front of the queue before the doors open, you can reasonably "expect" to be able to get to the barrier. If you don't get to the barrier because a bunch of people with more money are wanding in before advertised opening time, I think it's fair to be a little pised off, especially if that isn`t advertised in advance (not the case here I agree).

but it's not like they're hiding the fact that certain shows will allow vip upgrades to enter the venue before hand.

That is a fair point, but we'll have to agree to disagree. If you want to be at the front, you make sure you aren`t working that day, same as the rest of us do, then enjoy your VIP packages aftershow etc.

again, i think it has to do with just offering more perks for the $500. and i don't believe the package price will be lowered. but i do see your point as well. it's extremely difficult as alice doesn't always have a lot of time after shows to really spend quality time with his fans. i'm sure he'd love to. in fact, how many times had we heard brian 'complain' because alice spent too much time signing autographs on his way to the tour bus?

Too many times I've stood behind VIP laminate holders who seem to have no interest in the show whatsoever, don't know the 90% of the songs and wander in and out for beers, talking all through, sitting down throughout, (This is normally at seated venues, so I agree not a direct comparison) and leaving before the encore (and not to do Balloons). They aren`t big fans,if fans at all.
One occasion a couple in front wanted the M&G to get Alice to sign stuff for ebaying. They figured they could still make a profit even after the package price (I know, seems unlikely to me as well).

classic case of a few bad apples spoiling it for the whole bunch. and, it's obviously impossible for alice's management to only sell vip upgrades to 'real' alice cooper fans. like anything else, it's open to whoever has the money.

i think this is a lose/lose situation, unfortunately. or win/win, depending on what side you're on.

for the record - i don't get vip passes, so no yelling at me!!

[Shoesalesman]

some of you pay your dues by waiting in the rain and cold and running to get your front spot. fair enough. but other pay their dues by working 60 hours a week so that they can save up enough money for a vip upgrade package that would allow them to also get a good spot.

I think this thinking is why I'm on the fence with the early VIP entry for GA shows. I hear Si's point about not being informed about this added bonus for VIPs until you see them going to the door early, but I also understand the ideology of paying dues by working extra hours if you don't feel like or can't line up all day at the venue door.

Whether someone is jumping up and down, singing every word to every song is a bigger fan than someone who sits throughout the show, 'appearing' bored I suppose is a matter of opinion. Some choose to rock out, some choose to silently enjoy the show... and I agree some don't appear like they are fans at all; not every die hard acts like or has to act like a die hard at the shows. Different strokes for different folks.

[RemarkablyInsincere]

This is slightly off the topic but does reference Si's comment about disinterest.

When they let the high rollers into the Oneida Casino in GB before us poor common folk, there was a couple in front of us on the railing had to be in their 60s or close to it. Well, they did not react in any way, shape or form for the entire show. The stood there completely unresponsive and unmoved by anything occurring up on the stage. In fact several times I had to look closely to make sure they were actually awake.

I mean, really, how can you not react whatsoever when front row at an Alice Cooper show?

[Shoesalesman]

I mean, really, how can you not react whatsoever when front row at an Alice Cooper show?

Ask the front row I sat behind in Calgary last tour.

Some were texting throughout the show, a few were sitting down chatting, some looked like they'd rather be doing laundry at home... but after the show, during a conversation I had with several of them, these cats knew more about Alice, the songs, the character... etc than most people. Again, you don't HAVE TO act a certain way to be a die hard in the front row, people react in different ways.

[RemarkablyInsincere]

I realize that not everyone is the same. Some people don't go crazy waving their underwear over there head during the show.

That said, bands do enjoy when people react and are responsive to what they doing on stage. That's often how they gauge success / failure of the show and setlist.

If someone was texting through the entire show, that's simply disrespectful.

In regard to the couple in front of me, I'd be shocked if they were actual fans, although anything is possible. More likely, they were simply taking in the show because they get early admission for dropping lots of money at the casino.

It is what it is, but it would have been nice for the casino to mention this to me at any point during the 6+ hours I was standing there waiting first in line.

[Dragonlady]

sorry to have started the debate again. But I find it an important issue. Comparing people's "merits" isn't fait and it's not constructive. I see no one has commented on the choice question. But I agree with Si, anyone who makes efforts shouldn't see them ignored. Also quite afew VIP last year also did the queuing thing it's two different things in my mind.
It's nobody's business but I can assure you I work at least 60 hours aweek maybe more.
But thst's irrelevant. What I like to be in the front i explained often enough why this is important for me. And I'm ready to make the efforts for this. Now what if I prefer to see several concerts instead of one vip? What if I want to stand up front but not meet Alice? Again what about a choice?
The question of who earns more or deserves what has nothing to do here.

[AC Collect]

In a sense, everyone earns a spot on the barrier. Like if I waited for 6 hours at the door and got on the barrier, then I earned it. It's unfair if people can turn up at the door just before they open and get right on the barrier. It doesn't give people the fair chance.

[Jumping Jack]

So does anyone here really believe all seats in a venue are of equal value, and that seats way in the back of the nosebleeds are worth the same as a front row? If so, then why complain if you are not up front?

If you agree that different seat locations have different values then what is wrong with variable pricing? If you agree with variable pricing what is wrong with setting the price at market value, what someone is freely willing to pay?

This discussion seems to have more to do with what one has the ability or inability to pay, rather than what is "fair". Life is not fair otherwise rock stars would not make a 100 times more money than a researcher trying to find the cure for cancer. It is better to deal with reality than dream of utopia and your version of a perfect world.

[Dragonlady]

I hate to repeat myself but this is not at all the issue I raised. Please re read my post above. We are NOT AT ALL talking about seats. At least I am not.

Of course I agree that seats in the front have to be more expensive that's logical. But it's not the issue I raised. I mostly attend general admission shows, we don't have that many seated concerts here. I am talking about STANDING places. These have always been cheapest, And require a certain physical effort from fans. I do NOT agree that these places should become more expensive now. That way everyone can find their ideal situation?

And I don't want to be forced to buy a whole package of stuff I don't need just because promoters want to find news ways of making money.
That's all, why is this so hard to understand?

The whole fair unfair issue is perfectly irrelevant. I think we all know perfectly well that life isn't fair, stop being so patronising it's insulting in the end.

Sorry I am not usually so direct but this is really grating on my nerves for once. READ THE MESSAGES before jumping the gun

[Ravenred]

I agree with you Dragonlady. I stopped adding my view on the whole fair unfair situation as I too found certain people on here patronising & insulting.

[Dragonlady]

June 21 Museumplatz Bonn, Germany

Oh dear! I just bought a ticket for this one! Well, I have family in Frankfurt. Plus SickThing "Nephtis" is driving and is ok with adding this crazy Sickie to her expedition! And to boot I have 2 weeks of holiday then.

Now I need to work out the trip, but it looks like I'll be seing Alice in 2 months!

[Lisacooper91]

June 21 Museumplatz Bonn, Germany

Oh dear! I just bought a ticket for this one! Well, I have family in Frankfurt. Plus SickThing "Nephtis" is driving and is ok with adding this crazy Sickie to her expedition! And to boot I have 2 weeks of holiday then.

Now I need to work out the trip, but it looks like I'll be seing Alice in 2 months!

you better say hi to me when you see me

[Dragonlady]

Oh you're going too? How wonderful! We'll probably be queuing all afternoon or something.

Sadly it seems like it's one of these VIP get in first venues. I feel sick when I think about it. But I ranted enough in that other thread. There's nothing we can do about it but hope there won't be too many people in the fornt by the time we get in.

Are you doing the VIP thing again? If yes I have nothing against people who do it's just the fact that people like me who don't want the VIP are being "punished". It's not the fault of people who buy these of course.

[Lisacooper91]

yup... I'm going with a friend who has a VIP ticket...
I don't have enough money for being VIP again.. so yeah.. you won't be waiting alone

[Dragonlady]

I'll be with three others apparently, so there will be a whole group! It will be fun!

[Lisacooper91]

awesome ^^
yeah, some other people I met during past Alice gigs are going to be there too...

Alice's music is very... social... LOL!

[Dragonlady]

True! I made so many friends through Alice. It's really great. Can't wait to meet you!

[Dragonlady]

Got my ticket in the mail today! See you soon Lisa!