Would Alice release cover someone elses single

recoop · Post by **recoop** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:35 pm

Id like to hear Alice release R Dean Taylors theres a ghost in my house but the question is would he get more cash from doing this if sales higher or would he be more inclined to release new material and say sell less but would he get more cash by being writer. Also does Alice own own publsihing now if you know what I mean? Any replies welcome to this rambling question.

WickedYoungMan · Post by **WickedYoungMan** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:39 pm

In general, I believe the songwriter will still get their songwriter royalties but the performer of the song still gets something as a performer.

Mad Axeman · Post by **Mad Axeman** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:17 pm

IMO I don't think Alice is in it for the cash anymore. (unless it's for charity, or a new 9 iron)
Obviously he has covered other peoples stuff in the past, but I don't think he'd be crass enuff to release a cover as a single.

WickedYoungMan · Post by **WickedYoungMan** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:36 pm

but I don't think he'd be crass enuff to release a cover as a single.

Why not? Has done it before.

Mad Axeman · Post by **Mad Axeman** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:08 pm

Ok, I'll definately keep my sarcastic wit to 'fun and games' section from now on.

But kinda on topic, ive had loads of songs I'd love to hear Mr Cooper sing, just like all of us I suppose. But don't think I would like him to release any of them as singles. I think it's been discussed somewhere b4, an album of Alice singing his own favourite songs.

Mad Axeman · Post by **Mad Axeman** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:18 pm

Mad Axeman wrote:Ok, I'll definately keep my sarcastic wit to 'fun and games' section from now on.

But kinda on topic, ive had loads of songs I'd love to hear Mr Cooper sing, just like all of us I suppose. But don't think I would like him to release any of them as singles. I think it's been discussed somewhere b4, an album of Alice singing his own favourite songs.

Just read back and realised I'm not even vaguely on topic, sorry recoop.
You asked about the financial benefits of covers vs original material and to be honest I aint got a clue, so I'll go now.... wheres my coat.....

While Heaven Wept · Post by **While Heaven Wept** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:03 am

Royalties are normally divided between songwriters, performers and producers

steven_crayn · Post by **steven_crayn** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:04 pm

A songwriter would collect royalties from performances and mechanical sales of their song.

For example in the UK the The MCPS-PRS Alliance (Mechanical Copyright Protection Society & Performing Rights Society) collects royalties for songwriters, composers and music publishers not just in the UK but from their associations from all over the world such as ASCAP (American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers) in the U.S.A and vice versa.

As a PRS member if I do a search on Alice Cooper in the database it will tell me for example

Title: 10 MINUTES BEFORE THE WORM

Writer: COOPER ALICE

Publishers: EZRA MUSIC CORP,BIZARRE MUSIC CO,THIRD STORY MUSIC INC,CARLIN MUSIC CORP

Work #: 45062L

The classic song 'Ghost In my House' Recoop would like to see Alice cover, was of course the first song recorded by a white artist on the Motown label and was co written with R. Dean Taylor by Motown in house writers the Holland brothers and Lamont Dozier who would get the most money if someone else had a hit with it.

I've always thought Alice should do a version of 'Angie Baby' by Helen Reddy, one weird song that given the Alice treatment could really freak people out.

glamprincess · Post by **glamprincess** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:09 pm

steven_crayn wrote:
I've always thought Alice should do a version of 'Angie Baby' by Helen Reddy

...actually, Steven, I think maybe he should cover Helen Reddy's "I am Woman" instead....

mattcoddington · Post by **mattcoddington** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:30 pm

PUBLISHING is where the money is at.

not all songwriters retain publishing rights, and not all musicians are songwriters.

royalties are NOT always divided between songwriter/performer/producer.

this is why alice never sued kiss over the song 'dreamin'

steven_crayn · Post by **steven_crayn** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:20 pm

mattcoddington wrote:PUBLISHING is where the money is at.

not all songwriters retain publishing rights, and not all musicians are songwriters.

royalties are NOT always divided between songwriter/performer/producer.

That is a good point, even though you don't have to have a publishing deal to get a 100% of the performance royalties as the songwriter, take the case I looked at before of Alice Cooper and 'Ten Minutes Before The Worm'.

The performance royalties (eg Radio play) were split 50% each between the Alice Cooper Group as writers and Carlin Music Corp as publishers, but the mechanical royalties (ie record sales) were 100% to the publisher which worldwide is Ezra Music Corp apart from the UK and Scandinavia which belongs to Carlin Music Corp.
When a band signs a publishing deal they make money off that as well as the record deal.

mattcoddington · Post by **mattcoddington** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:30 pm

yeah, there are A LOT of different deals that can be made when working out royalties and such. it can vary an enormous amount from situation to situation.

A_MichaelUK · Post by **A_MichaelUK** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:59 pm

>mechanical royalties (ie record sales)

I think "mechanical royalties" depends on the number of copies which have been actually manufactured in a particular format, rather than how many have been sold, but, again, I think every deal is probably different.

steven_crayn · Post by **steven_crayn** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:07 pm

The record company would normally pay the publisher 50% of the mechanicals who would then pay the songwiters their performance royalties normally 50% also.

On 'School's Out' Carlin Music Corp get 50% as UK publisher since April 1st 1979 and Scandinavia since December 1st 1993 (writers Alice and Michael got 25% each of performance shares) but Carlin have got 100% Mechanicals for those territories with Ezra getting the rest of the World Mechanicals.

Think how much money that song has made!

recoop · Post by **recoop** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:16 pm

thanks for all the informative replies to my original poser- I wonder if anyone can have a stab at what publishing ALICE owns...e.g. who gets the money fromEZRA and Carline and any others...would not think he would have signed his rights away to Trash with poison on it...given original bands publishing problems...but who knows...I don't...but if you do or have an idea why not post it so I can keep learning.ta

steven_crayn · Post by **steven_crayn** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:08 pm

recoop wrote:thanks for all the informative replies to my original poser- I wonder if anyone can have a stab at what publishing ALICE owns...e.g. who gets the money fromEZRA and Carline and any others...would not think he would have signed his rights away to Trash with poison on it...given original bands publishing problems...but who knows...I don't...but if you do or have an idea why not post it so I can keep learning.ta

Ezra music is Shep Gordon's (Alice's manager) publishing company.

Carlin music is the worlds largest independent music publisher.

Most songwriters need a publishing company.

You mentioned the Trash album, take the big hit from that Poison

Mechanical Shares:

3 publishers and the % split was

KAT AND MOUSE MUSIC 15%
EZRA MUSIC CORP 42.50 %
DESMOBILE INC 42.50 %

Final Shares (indicates the UK Publisher or controller of the Work
EMI SONGS LTD 42.50%
UNIVERSAL/MCA MUSIC LTD 15%
SONY/ATV MUSIC PUBLISHING (UK) 42.50%

Performing Shares:

3 writers and the % split was

JOHN MC CURRY 7.5%
ALICE COOPER 21.25 %
DESMOND CHILD 21.25 %

But as is often the case the publishers took the other 50% between them with the following % split

EMI SONGS LTD 21.25%
UNIVERSAL/MCA MUSIC LIMITED 7.50%
SONY/ATV MUSIC PUBLISHING (UK) 21.25%

Dianne Warren who co wrote 'Bed Of Nails' is an interesting story, she lost loads of money as a songwriter but said it was the best thing that ever happened to her, as she then set up her own publishing company (Real Songs) and is now one of the richest women in America.

recoop · Post by **recoop** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:29 pm

fascinating response....finally do we assume that Alice has a big share in Sheps' publsihing company

mattcoddington · Post by **mattcoddington** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:40 pm

we shall assume nothing.

A_MichaelUK · Post by **A_MichaelUK** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 6:54 pm

>we shall assume nothing.

I agree. People (this isn't meant as a criticism of recoop) do seem to love their assumptions.

kevinuk81 · Post by **kevinuk81** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 6:55 pm

Assume = Makes an ASS out of U and ME.