ACAS ...food for thought

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steven15322
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ACAS ...food for thought

Post by steven15322 » Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:15 am

The thing about the CD not being dark and all and about Spider being happy go lucky in the songs...I really believe most serial killers are happy when they are doing what they do. They get a thrill out of it and satisfaction etc .otherwise they prob wouldn't do it if it made them feel all sad and remorse......You know they don't think the way normal people do .I kinda think Alice hit the nail on the head.

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Re: ACAS ...food for thought

Post by Shoesalesman » Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:25 am

steven15322 wrote:You know they don't think the way normal people do.
Oh I think the majority of them do, they just don't have the control mechanism to stop the thought from turning into action. Just an opinion.
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Post by Gorehound » Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:17 am

I see the point you're trying to make steven, but a true psychopath has no emotion and therefore no concept of happiness, or love for that matter. Which is why I wasn't too happy to hear one title would be killed by love lol, I like my horror without romance. I know not all serial killers are psychos/socios, far from it, but Spider is supposedly a psychopath. People kill for all sorts of reasons but if Spider is really a psycho then he can't be happy in his work because he is incapable of feeling happiness. If he's not a true psycho, and I would assume not from the storyline, then I guess he would feel some sense of enjoyment or whatever from killing. Even so, I still wish the music were darker and more like what I was expecting before hearing the album.
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Re: ACAS ...food for thought

Post by hywel » Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:07 am

Shoesalesman wrote:
steven15322 wrote:You know they don't think the way normal people do.
Oh I think the majority of them do, they just don't have the control mechanism to stop the thought from turning into action. Just an opinion.
what is normal? what you find are the most common features of sociopaths and psychopaths are total lack of empathy the need for control in whatever way they see fit, and no regard for consequences. the reason why i said what is normal is because many people who function in society have these traits. your top businessmen, presidents etc.
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Post by glamprincess » Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:21 pm

They have studied serial killers for decades now in order to find out what these sociopaths had in common. The commonality is that they lack the ability to empathize with other people. They still have emotions, but they don't feel sorry for their victims and that lack of empathy is what enables them to harm their victims and separates them from the rest of us.

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Post by scotty » Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:52 pm

it's a concept album,not a documentary.this is more jason,freddy,and norman bates than it is ted bundy,john wayne gacy,or jeff dahmer.alice keeps pointing this out-you wouldn't root for the latter because of the darkness of their characters..but a likable,clever person who has emotions you could get behind.that aspect of it he absolutely deliberately set out to create.since when did everything have to make perfect sense on a rock record? save that pickiness for the filmmakers who are trying to explain a sociopaths life.this is a guy alice created,and it can be anything he wants it to be.there's really no wrong here,IMO.

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Post by Gorehound » Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:56 pm

True sociopaths are like psychopaths though, they have no emotion. Not just lack of empathy. Psychos are born that way, they are not built to cope with emotions. They have urges to kill and no conscience or morals to stop them. They'll kill without reason or remorse. Sociopaths on the other hand are created. Not all serial killers are true sociopaths or psychopaths.

Personally I believe anyone can become a killer, some just kill more easily than others, but push anyone far enough and they'll kill.
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Post by Darren » Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:30 pm

I think that this album is more creepy being upbeat and happy...don't get me wrong guys...I love my metal....I absolutely love listening and playing it....that being said, am I the only one who thinks that Alice avoided a ton of cliches by NOT going overly heavy on this album...by having that feel good upbeat vibe I think that the album is a bit more creepy...and original.

I'd be willing to bet that If Alice and Greg had produced a Brutal Planet type sound for this album it would be perceived as recycling old riffs, cliched and corny...most subject matter like this written by bands are usually death metal bands. (Which I love) but instead of making this album very aggresive...Alice kind of made it seem like Spider's having the time of his life...no need to be angry...he's having fun....

I remember when BP and DT came out...people...a lot of people complained that it was too heavy for their tastes...I think a really heavy album about a serial killer would have been predictable...and thus maybe thats why it sounds the way it is...maybe after a year or so...people might start getting it?

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Post by Darren » Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:10 pm

Also, I'm getting the album today...coulden't afford it on Tuesday....But I did see a link WYM posted showing the artwork. It looked like Steven written his name in Crayon? is that correct? Little doodleing pics and artwork?

Was this album written when Steven was young? The dirary I mean. So if it were written when steven was a relative young man...or kid wouden't the juvenile lyrics fit? Is that part of the concept do you guys think?

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Post by RemarkablyInsincere » Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:37 pm

Darren wrote:I think that this album is more creepy being upbeat and happy...don't get me wrong guys...I love my metal....I absolutely love listening and playing it....that being said, am I the only one who thinks that Alice avoided a ton of cliches by NOT going overly heavy on this album...by having that feel good upbeat vibe I think that the album is a bit more creepy...and original.

I'd be willing to bet that If Alice and Greg had produced a Brutal Planet type sound for this album it would be perceived as recycling old riffs, cliched and corny...most subject matter like this written by bands are usually death metal bands. (Which I love) but instead of making this album very aggresive...Alice kind of made it seem like Spider's having the time of his life...no need to be angry...he's having fun....

I remember when BP and DT came out...people...a lot of people complained that it was too heavy for their tastes...I think a really heavy album about a serial killer would have been predictable...and thus maybe thats why it sounds the way it is...maybe after a year or so...people might start getting it?
I agree Darren.
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Post by Shoesalesman » Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:17 pm

Darren wrote:It looked like Steven written his name in Crayon? is that correct? Little doodleing pics and artwork?
It says: This book belongs to Steven, with Steven written in red. Take note of the crayon; it says Blood on it instead of Red. The spider holding the knife is a great touch.
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Re: ACAS ...food for thought

Post by Shoesalesman » Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:25 pm

hywel wrote:
Shoesalesman wrote:
steven15322 wrote:You know they don't think the way normal people do.
Oh I think the majority of them do, they just don't have the control mechanism to stop the thought from turning into action. Just an opinion.
what is normal? what you find are the most common features of sociopaths and psychopaths are total lack of empathy the need for control in whatever way they see fit, and no regard for consequences. the reason why i said what is normal is because many people who function in society have these traits. your top businessmen, presidents etc.
Good point, hywel.
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Post by WickedYoungMan » Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:50 pm

scotty wrote:since when did everything have to make perfect sense on a rock record?
Since Alice started writing concept albums? No one said it had to make *perfect* sense, but this album is meant to be a story to follow through with. In fact for the live shows Alice has even said he wants to the audience members to play the "detective." Well if some are already saying "What?" to the lyrics now, it's going to be a tad difficult. So the lyrics CAN be important.

I don't think you're giving Alice enough credit as a lyricist over all, but I think you might be playing off some of the details in these lyrics a little too easily at the same time. In that case, he should just have lyrics of Pig Latin if you do not think they are important.
this is a guy alice created,and it can be anything he wants it to be.there's really no wrong here,IMO.
But do you understand that what he says he wants it to be doesn't exactly play out lyrically in the album? Otherwise, you're sort of saying Alice wasted his time with it being a concept if the lyrics aren't that important or are supposed to make sense.
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Post by Darren » Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:05 pm

Picked up the CD today...now I've heard it before, but I wasen't able to check out the entire artwork untill today.

Damn it...I love this album...from start to finish...the artwork is absolutely fantastic, the images in the booklet are perfect. Of course the cd isent in the right spot in the case...but I'm happy with everything else.

I thought it was interesting that this is Alice's first concept record about a Killer...because the character Alice Cooper most definately is. Not knowing Alice, one may think he has done that before, and retreading on old ground when in fact he hasen't done an album like this before.

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Post by Jumping Jack » Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:28 pm

Trying to make sense of Coop's concept is like trying to make sense out of a Three Stooges short. They are both written in under an hour and not meant to be taken seriously, it is just shtick, and terribly worn thin by now. It would not shock me if a bonus track with a chorus of Nyuk, Nyuk, Nyuk was released next week. Really, this is no brainer stuff folks.

He doesn't take these lyrics seriously and neither should you. The only thing wrong is that it is less humorous and clever than his usual fare.
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Post by steven15322 » Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:16 pm

I remember when "The Last Temptation" Came out. I remember the reviews from magazines like Hit Parader, Circus, Etc. The reviews for it weren't that great. Alot of the reviews I read were saying they could not make out the story and they basically just wrote Alice off. Now look at how many people think that it is a fine album when back then the critics snubbed it. Only this time ACAS seems to be getting pretty good reviews. Time will tell.

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Post by hywel » Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:20 am

Gorehound wrote:True sociopaths are like psychopaths though, they have no emotion. Not just lack of empathy. Psychos are born that way, they are not built to cope with emotions. They have urges to kill and no conscience or morals to stop them. They'll kill without reason or remorse. Sociopaths on the other hand are created. Not all serial killers are true sociopaths or psychopaths.

Personally I believe anyone can become a killer, some just kill more easily than others, but push anyone far enough and they'll kill.
sorry this isnt alice related, but not all are born that way. conditioning via environment and especially family are also major factors, zero stimulation, attachment disorders, abuse, non bonding etc. i have worked with many people who have gone through the above and not all have turned out to be anti social, sociopathic, or psychopathic, a few have, but some have turned the other way, became victims of themselves and others.
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Post by GailsFriend » Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:49 pm

I am always surprised when Alice gets bad reviews. The Last Temptation, Brutal Planet and Dragontown, and ACAS all have characters, environments, and storylines---much more than your other rock/metal bands have to offer. The lyrics are humorous and dark at the same time. Eat Some More is just sick and Funny....because it is true.
You have to laugh at the stuff that Alice is creating because there is a grain of truth there....and that is where the real darkness lies....in us.
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Post by Gorehound » Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:53 pm

I know that hywel, was just saying psychos are born that way and socios become that way. That's the difference between em right, psychopaths are born and sociopaths are made that way by society, hence 'socio'.

I know not everyone going through similar experiences will turn out the same way and not all will become sociopathic (everyone's different afterall), though I do believe push anyone far enough and they will become killers.
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Post by hywel » Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:22 pm

[quote="Gorehound"]I know that hywel, was just saying psychos are born that way and socios become that way. That's the difference between em right, psychopaths are born and sociopaths are made that way by society, hence 'socio'.

sorry but a sociopath is someone who suffers a phsycopathic disorder and whos behaviour is displayed with aggresive anti social behaviour.

a psycopath is a mental disorder where the sufferer has little if no concern for his actions toward others. also other peoples welfare do not matter one bit.

both disorders can be genetic, but are mostly through conditioning. there could be other reasons but these are the two that are being looked at.
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