ACAS ...food for thought

[Feezle-Nuts]

He doesn't take these lyrics seriously and neither should you. The only thing wrong is that it is less humorous and clever than his usual fare.

What kills me is all of the people trying to find hidden meaning behind the lyrics on this album when it is totally obvious that no time was spent on them.

[Gorehound]

I know that hywel, was just saying psychos are born that way and socios become that way. That's the difference between em right, psychopaths are born and sociopaths are made that way by society, hence 'socio'.

sorry but a sociopath is someone who suffers a phsycopathic disorder and whos behaviour is displayed with aggresive anti social behaviour.

a psycopath is a mental disorder where the sufferer has little if no concern for his actions toward others. also other peoples welfare do not matter one bit.

both disorders can be genetic, but are mostly through conditioning. there could be other reasons but these are the two that are being looked at.

Hmm ok I need to dig a little deeper then. Been doing some research for another horror story I'm working on and all sources I looked at said the term psycopath and sociopath are often used interchangeably but the main difference is psychopaths are born that way and sociopaths become that way, but end result is basically same.

[hywel]

I know that hywel, was just saying psychos are born that way and socios become that way. That's the difference between em right, psychopaths are born and sociopaths are made that way by society, hence 'socio'.

sorry but a sociopath is someone who suffers a phsycopathic disorder and whos behaviour is displayed with aggresive anti social behaviour.

a psycopath is a mental disorder where the sufferer has little if no concern for his actions toward others. also other peoples welfare do not matter one bit.

both disorders can be genetic, but are mostly through conditioning. there could be other reasons but these are the two that are being looked at.

Hmm ok I need to dig a little deeper then. Been doing some research for another horror story I'm working on and all sources I looked at said the term psycopath and sociopath are often used interchangeably but the main difference is psychopaths are born that way and sociopaths become that way, but end result is basically same.

no worries. good luck with your horror story.

[Shoesalesman]

You have to laugh at the stuff that Alice is creating because there is a grain of truth there....and that is where the real darkness lies....in us.

Great statement.

[Alicehunter2000]

So how bout that unbelievably grisly murderer on the Greyhound bus, up in Canada.........pychopath or sociopath? Sickening, whatever his problem is.

[hywel]

So how bout that unbelievably grisly murderer on the Greyhound bus, up in Canada.........pychopath or sociopath? Sickening, whatever his problem is.

i agree. it might of been someone who lost the plot and went into a frenzy.

[Shoesalesman]

Don't really want to comment too much on it, just feel enormous sorrow for that young victim's family.

[guttertrash]

As a psych. worker, I must say that most of the characteristics used for psychopaths and sociopaths in this section are a bit off based. Glamprincess and Hywel seemed to be the most on track.

First, Sociopath doesn't have anything to do with society's influence. The 'socio' prefix has to do with their relations to others: they have a hard time relating to other human beings. This can be on many different levels. The terms psychopath and sociopath are generally used interchangeably. In the psychology field, there are disagreements on that, but both disorders fall under Anti-Social Disorder. The true characteristic is that they are self-serving and they do as they please for their pleasure with no remorse or guilt. The whole emotional aspect of a sociopath and psychopath is that they do not feel anything towards others. They use people, so they can get satisfaction and pleasure. So yes, when they do their dirty deeds, they do them because they enjoy it. They just do not care about any other person's feelings. As I said earlier, the two terms tend to be used interchangeably, however this is something i found that distinguishes how some psychologists differentiate the two.

"Both the psychopath and sociopath fail to feel remorse or guilt. They appear to lack a conscience and are completely self-serving. They routinely disregard rules, social mores and laws, unmindful of putting themselves or others at risk. Of the more distinguishing traits, some argue the sociopath to be less organized in his or her demeanor, nervous and easily agitated – someone likely living on the fringes of society, without solid or consistent economic support. A sociopath is more likely to spontaneously act out in inappropriate ways without thinking through the consequences. Conversely, some argue that the psychopath tends to be extremely organized, secretive and manipulative. The outer personality is often charismatic and charming, hiding the real person beneath. Though psychopaths do not feel for others, they can mimic behaviors that make them appear normal. Upon meeting, one would have more of a tendency to trust a psychopath than a sociopath. Because of the organized personality of the psychopath, he or she might have a tendency to be better educated than the average sociopath, who probably lacks the attentive skills to excel in school. While psychopaths can fly under the radar of society, many maintaining families and steady work, a sociopath more often lacks the skills and drive for mimicking normal behavior, making “seemingly healthy” relationships and a stable home less likely. From a criminal standpoint, a sociopath’s crimes are typically disorganized and spontaneous, while the psychopath’s crimes are well planned out. For this reason, psychopaths are harder to catch than sociopaths, as the sociopath is more apt to leave ample evidence in his or her explosions of violence.Hence, while similar psychological traits might fall under the antisocial personality heading, from a social and criminalist point of view, the differences between a psychopath and a sociopath may be significant. According to experts, persons with a non-criminal history can also display lesser or varying degrees of either personality type."

I thoroughly have enjoyed the album. The Spider comes off as a character that Alice has referred to a few times in the past, Hannibal Lecter. Alice made a comment during the release of DD. "I always treated Alice as a dignified criminal, like Hannibal Lecter. Lecter would never lower himself to use bad language. Alice was always too much of an elegant gentleman; He wouldn’t swear…but he’d slit your throat." On the outside, the Spider comes off to be smart, calculated, and generally intelligent. He must have been manipulative and generally kind acting, because he lures his victims. Basically it's the same kind of character as Lecter, or maybe even better, the character, Patrick Bateman, from American Psycho since that novel was rooted in humour. I personally think the album defines the character very well, because Alice describes him not as a sociopath, but as 'an arachnophobic psychopath.'

I am also glad Alice made the music less metal and more from his 70s roots, albeit with the modern flourishes. I think the rock sound with the hooks serves it's purpose over the industrial influenced metal of BP. That music fit BP, because BP needed to be dark. It focused on real, everyday life like a true story. ACAS is fictional. It's a horror/comedy, not 'based on true events.' It's American Psycho not Son Of Sam. It's horror/comedy such as Evil Dead not true horroe like The Exorcist. The poppier sound with the dark story of a serial killer could also be influenced by another novel turned movie, A Clockwork Orange. During all the violent scenes in A Clockwork Orange, they played peaceful soothing music, so it could be a nod to Kubrick.

We don't know what Alice was thinking personally, but I do know what's been done in the past, and it wouldn't surprise me if that came out through Alice's subconscious being a fan of horror, black humour, and film noir that he is.

[guttertrash]

hope that i didn't ramble too much.

[NotSoPerfect]

. It's horror/comedy such as Evil Dead not true horroe like The Exorcist.

LOVE this line!!! Alice is definitely a fan of those movies (I've seen many a reference to them, and heard him mention them on NWAC) and I think they're great!

Wonderful....now I'm gonna listen to "Wake the Dead" and have the graveyard scene in my head....where Ash mucks up the words to take back the Necronomicon and winds up with skeletal arms doing a 3 Stooges routine with him held to the ground.

[Gorehound]

Nice post, cheers guttertrash. I love American Psycho, both book and film.

[Maurice]

hope that i didn't ramble too much.

Not at all.

I found that very informative, interesting and good 'background' to the album.

I agree with the 'comedic' invention of the album; although I think this is somehow 'lost' in the extreme idea of the gore, without Alice giving any of his 'usual' comic quips perhaps - as an aside to the audience - to indicate this more clearly. But that is a purely personal preference.

However 'rounded' the violence in 'A Clockwork Orange' may have become as a result of playing "The Thieving Magpie" (Rossini) or Beethoven's 9th, the ultimate effect was some 'glorification' of the violence - which became the problem of 'copycat' violence - certainly in the UK anyway. To me, at the age of 17 (yes, I was 'underage' for that movie at the time), it was fantastic, and very impressionable - anything but funny. The book however, turned the story around, but the film 'left it all hanging', so to speak.

And I have a similar problem with ACAS - the humour is somehow 'lost' on me - I don't get it; this is irritates me, because with Alice I always want to be in on the joke!

[Shoesalesman]

That's a great summation, guttertrash.

[hywel]

[quote="guttertrash"]As a psych. worker, I must say that most of the characteristics used for psychopaths and sociopaths in this section are a bit off based. Glamprincess and Hywel seemed to be the most on track.

First, Sociopath doesn't have anything to do with society's influence. The 'socio' prefix has to do with their relations to others: they have a hard time relating to other human beings. This can be on many different levels. The terms psychopath and sociopath are generally used interchangeably. In the psychology field, there are disagreements on that, but both disorders fall under Anti-Social Disorder. The true characteristic is that they are self-serving and they do as they please for their pleasure with no remorse or guilt. The whole emotional aspect of a sociopath and psychopath is that they do not feel anything towards others. They use people, so they can get satisfaction and pleasure. So yes, when they do their dirty deeds, they do them because they enjoy it. They just do not care about any other person's feelings. As I said earlier, the two terms tend to be used interchangeably, however this is something i found that distinguishes how some psychologists differentiate the two.


nice post.

[guttertrash]

i just want to clear one thing up. I said that sociopaths have nothing to do with society's influence. I was meaning that society's influence is not an exclusive difference between psychopaths and sociopaths, because they are both influenced by both genetics and environment (upbringing, society, etc.) The reason some are called sociopaths and others psychopaths is because sociopaths generally show more anti-social signs. They are normally shy,and uncomfortable and nervous in public, so they normally just keep to themselves. Most sociopaths kill due to this. If they are in public and are picked on or made fun of, they can't handle it and become violent. Psychopaths generally function well in public, this is why they are normally better educated. Although they don't have feelings for people, they can 'play the part' and can be very manipulative and even seem very sincere.

[jacknifejohnny]

Just got the c.d. with no pre-hearings at all and reading a lot of negative reviews, i gotta say, i love it. Heavier than i thought it would be, from reading posts, with a little bit of Acthung Baby thrown in. I personally think it's Alice's least commercial sounding album for about 8 years. My guess is that, the naysayers will be won over by it as time passes by.