SickthingsUK

I am starting to wonder that Steven Crayns guitar solo has created some kind of mass hysteria here.

If it wasn't him would there have been so much of a fuss for this track? Suddenly " the band " are being lauded as not being washed up and this is the best thing since sliced bread and how about a full album with the real band from the naysayers.

I'm a big band fan as is Ted and this is not blowing either of us away. I don't think Alice sounds particularly great, there's no chorus and the lyrics are nothing special. For me the guitar solo is the most interesting thing.

It could also be that it's an actual Alice song and not another cover. I think the addition of the Breadcrumbs songs is a poor one and a rip off to boot. My guess it's going to make the album have a disjointed feel.

I really enjoy ‘Social Debris’. IMO, it has a very ‘Love It to Death’ vibe, which made perfect sense when I found out it is the original AC band playing on the track! Very cool. The music video is great as well. Alice looks really good for his age. Age isn’t even really a thing to this guy. I look forward to the release of the album!

My excitement had faded to disappointment by the end of my first listen, and after some more listens over the last few days, it hasn’t grown on me. I feel like all the elements for a good anthemic song are there, but no section feels completely finished or ends too soon. The “down down down” part kills what could have been a hook for me, and the section that comes after sounds unfinished and like a line is missing for it to really be complete. You essentially have one verse, what should be a chorus, and a bridge. I think they were trying to be clever, but it really just makes everything come off disjointed.

The guitar solo is fantastic, and if not for it, I likely would not have given it as many listens as I have.

I do wish the instruments on the last album would have had the mix and overall production of this album. It does make getting through the songs easier for me, but so far, it sounds wasted on a batch of songs that seem inferior writing wise this time.

For now, pandemic songs are more popular than anthemic songs. In this time of confinement, curfew, etc... no concerts, can't even sit for a coffee at your favorite Starbucks, the release of a new album is like a breath of fresh air and hope for the return of a normal life. So, thank you, Alice.

guttertrash wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:57 pm

My excitement had faded to disappointment by the end of my first listen, and after some more listens over the last few days, it hasn’t grown on me. I feel like all the elements for a good anthemic song are there, but no section feels ....

Have to agree with you. I've been disappointed from the 3 single releases so far. I tried 'Social Debris' on the first day must of played it 3 or 4 times trying to like it. Then next few days less and less to finally just haven't played it. Doesn't sound like it's from LITD or Killer like Alice says. It's more of Eyes of Alice and Dirty Diamonds. The last Alice album I liked entirely was 'Along Came A Spider'. Every release after that I only liked a few songs per album. I don't know maybe my musical taste has changed. Still like all the albums from PFY to DADA. After that it's been hit and miss. It's just my own feelings of these songs and albums.

I like the song, but it isn't a classic to my ears despite the original band's input, plus I note the guitar solo at 1:38 has a cheeky little nod to the intro of Halo of Flies, or maybe it's my ears!!

KeithGale wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:22 pm

I like the song, but it isn't a classic to my ears despite the original band's input, plus I note the guitar solo at 1:38 has a cheeky little nod to the intro of Halo of Flies, or maybe it's my ears!!

I clocked that as well and assumed it was intentional.

pitkin88 wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:49 am

I am starting to wonder that Steven Crayns guitar solo has created some kind of mass hysteria here.

If it wasn't him would there have been so much of a fuss for this track? Suddenly " the band " are being lauded as not being washed up and this is the best thing since sliced bread and how about a full album with the real band from the naysayers.

I'm a big band fan as is Ted and this is not blowing either of us away. I don't think Alice sounds particularly great, there's no chorus and the lyrics are nothing special. For me the guitar solo is the most interesting thing.

It could also be that it's an actual Alice song and not another cover. I think the addition of the Breadcrumbs songs is a poor one and a rip off to boot. My guess it's going to make the album have a disjointed feel.

I agree with you. While this was the best of the three songs so far, it was still disappointing. I will go in as open-minded as possible, but I'm expecting this to be AC's worst album since Zipper Catches Skin.

I think Paranoiac Personality was the first single from the last album and that wipes the floor with every song AC has released in advance of this record other than Don't Give Up. That was the only song that really sounded like Alice IMO, and I'm hoping the spoken word parts are reworked for the album.

VinceRaven wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:18 pm

KeithGale wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:22 pm

I like the song, but it isn't a classic to my ears despite the original band's input, plus I note the guitar solo at 1:38 has a cheeky little nod to the intro of Halo of Flies, or maybe it's my ears!!

I clocked that as well and assumed it was intentional.

It was, Bob Ezrin wanted a Glen Buxton type solo so i took some of Glen’s licks and though not copying them exactly, i put my own stamp on them so it sounded retro but original. There was a touch of ‘Luney Tune’, ‘Halo of Flies’ and ‘Laughing at Me’ thrown in. When i heard the chord progression the song was crying out for a touch of that, which was basically the first take. The last bar end was more or less the only thing i re did, plus an extra lick I played on an improvised alternate take, that was dubbed in bars 7 and 8.
The original ending was even more GB with a touch of ‘Under My Wheels’ but Bob went with a different ending that i did on one of the alternate takes, that i improvised in case we needed anything else. Once i had the planned solo in the can the pressure was off, and i could just enjoy improvising a couple of back up solos, which turned out to be useful as we used one of the endings and one of the licks as previously mentioned.

There is no question the guitar solo is amazing in Social Debris. Here is the thing and this of course is my own opinion. I am an Alice diehard and I like all eras of Alice. In fact I am actually an even bigger fan of many of Alice's solo eras than the original band as good as they were. That being said and it is not that any of it is bad but Alice's last couple of albums haven't really done it for me. The 70's was great in its time but the old adage you can't go home again I think applies. There is something to be said for Nostalgia but I would love to here something a little more modern. I would love an album with the current touring band. I didn't care for the production on Paranormal and the three tracks I have heard so far on the upcoming album sound a bit sterile to me, just a little too safe and the songs don't really rock. For me I loved everything in the modern era (2000-present) from Brutal Planet thru Dirty Diamonds. I still listen to all those albums. I did not care for Along Came a Spider as much, I hated the production on that album. Then I really loved W2MN. I thought the album was clever, good production, and the songs were all over the place. I still consider it a fun listen. Paranormal is one of those albums where I gave it a few listens and basically now it sits on the shelf. So far this one sounds like it will be the same. I am hoping I am wrong.

I think this is the best example of what we've all have said for years now.

Alice needs new blood. See what an amazing job Steven did?

He's a fan, he knows what to do when given the chance. He didn't copy Buxton or others but he honored them. A lick here and there and it was amazing.

Imagine what Alice could achieve recording with his touring band, other young musicians, etc.

Lucius Morthem wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:40 pm

I think this is the best example of what we've all have said for years now.
Imagine what Alice could achieve recording with his touring band, other young musicians, etc.

Been saying that for years.

But also I think if Alice and Dennis sat down to write an new Alice Cooper album, with Ezrin only coming in at the end of the process (and without a solid veto), the results would also be superior. Dennis still understands that a certain sort of variety is what makes a great AC album. You have both black Juju and drive me nervous, SO and My Stars, Dept of Youth and Steven - and what is SORELY missing from anything Alice has done in decades is a My Stars, Inmates, Juju or Halo.

While there have been some great songs on albums (with some having the potential of being greater then they ended up) there is too much emphasis on keeping things to three/four minute "singles", and that misses what to be was the best part of Alice Cooper musically, the theatrical songs that you could build a stage show around.

W2MN was a step in the right direction, but for me 'Paranormal' and, it seems, 'Detroit Stories' are just collection of decent songs with Alice singing. More often then not they could be songs from almost anyone if it wasn't for Alice's voice being so unique. Where are the real 'Alice Cooper' songs?

The above three posts sum up exactly how i feel too. Well said all.

Why don't we lock AC, Neal, Dennis, Michael & Roxie in a room or rooms. Feed them, give them fresh linens & clothing & not let them out until they've written 20+ songs? Then bring in Bob (or Zombie) & the rest of the touring band to thrash out the details?

Daggers & Contracts wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:39 pm

Why don't we lock AC, Neal, Dennis, Michael & Roxie in a room or rooms. Feed them, give them fresh linens & clothing & not let them out until they've written 20+ songs? Then bring in Bob (or Zombie) & the rest of the touring band to thrash out the details?

I would pick Mick Mashbir as he helped write at least 1 ACG song: Hard Hearted Alice. I don't see how Zombie (if you're referring to Rob Zombie) and the 'rest of' the touring band would be helpful but maybe I just require some further explanation regarding thrashing out the details.

Ted

Ted Sallis wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:58 pm

I would pick Mick Mashbir as he helped write at least 1 ACG song: Hard Hearted Alice. I don't see how Zombie (if you're referring to Rob Zombie) and the 'rest of' the touring band would be helpful but maybe I just require some further explanation regarding thrashing out the details.
Ted

I think you missed the point a little?
We are NOT talking about making a new ACG band album here, just writing more Alice Cooper-esque material for future "solo" albums (and as proven just using Neal, Mike or DD co-written songs doesn't seem to be doing what we're talking about). I'm not sure getting a credit on ONE AC song 50 years ago, and playing as a sideman on two tours, would give Mick any great insight.

Roxie on the other hand has been with Alice for over 25 years AND has a proven track record as a good songwriter - although not in the style we are probably looking for.

Rob Zombie certainly has an ear for what we are looking for (it's not his own musical style, but he has the imagination that could be useful), and as a major fan maybe him coming in with suggestions at the end of the writing process could bare fruit.

The current band would be for playing on the actual album, they deserve it, with the ACG guesting as has become normal.

I would like to get Rick Rubin in for a take with Alice.

Would still give my right arm for a Coop/Danny Elman collaboration. Their mix of quirky dark humours would be stellar.

I'm in complete agreement that the current touring band should be fully involved in any new Alice album(s), ideally with further contributions from the original guys. I'm disappointed with every new release announcement when it's clear that they've been shut out again.

On the other hand, I think Rob Zombie should be kept as far away from it as possible. There's no denying he's a longterm fan and friend of Alice but he's also a longterm fan of horror films and the movie Halloween and his reboot of that classic was diabolically bad. Disgraceful even. He basically removed everything good about it and replaced it with dross. I fear he would do exactly the same with an Alice project.

To Si's point, a good comparison was the last Ozzy Osbourne album, Ordinary Man. Ozzy sounded good on it and some of the songs were not bad, so technically nothing wrong with it except it didn't sound like an Ozzy album. It sounded like an album of songs with Ozzy singing on them. It could have been anyone.

And I think that is where I am at with the last couple of Alice albums and once again I actually prefer a lot of solo Alice to the original band work so I don't have that bias. With the current band, I think what they could bring songwriting wise is being missed. I love Chuck Garric's writing on the Beasto Blanco albums. A lot of variety on those albums and good heavy, at time fun, hard hitting tunes. Give Chuck an opportunity to work with Alice on songwriting. Roxie's last solo album was a good fun album and let Nita Strauss shred on some songs. When you combine those elements if you would truly give them freedom, you could have a rocking good album and you could definitely bring in Dennis as well. And the thing is with the Pandemic and no touring having occurred for the past year and probably a while longer, what an opportunity to really focus on the songs and a great album because everyone has plenty of time to focus in on the album itself.