Paranormal CD 2 with original Alice Cooper band plus some live songs. Very good or excellent?

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Paranormal CD 2 with original Alice Cooper band. Very good or excellent?

Post by nicnic » Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:31 pm

Well, when I first heard about a CD 2 from Paranormal album to include 2 new songs from Alice Copper and the original band I got excited and the first thing I thought was, they're going to return to their original sound they greatly achieved from the early 1970's". Well, the songs are really good but not in the same sound and "ultra cool rock with sinister vocals" style as their original Alice Cooper albums from Love it to death to Muscle of love. They kind of lost that sound and style but they are still very good songs. Like Black Sabbath or AC/DC those bands never change their spots like a leopard but the original Cooper band, well just kind of did just a little or more maby.

Then there are the live bonus songs included and I actually thought since they're making an effort to include live bonus tracks it should be songs that they never or almost never play on a live album or dvd to make it more worth while. Then I noticed, Only women bleed and all those others and I was kind of surpired. What about, Luney tune, Big apple dreamin', Hallowed by my name, Raped and freezin', Unfinshed sweet, Public animal #9, Never been sold before, Caught in a dream, Long way to go, Heart harded Alice, You drive me nervous, Yeah, yeah yeah. (don't those songs matter anymore to any fans or to Alice??), I mean so many dvds of the same repeated songs what about these I just mentioned? They're just as important.

Anyone else agree about all this or?? :( :( :/ :/ :yawn:

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Re: Paranormal CD 2 with original Alice Cooper band plus some live songs. Very good or excellent?

Post by nicnic » Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:53 pm

I BET fans love those songs I mentioned and their original sound/style 71-74, like the way other fans always love the Sabbath (I actually do too) and the Ac/dc.(like em a bit- Ballbreaker cd cooloe cool-see they never changed).

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Re: Paranormal CD 2 with original Alice Cooper band. Very good or excellent?

Post by Maaki » Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:49 pm

Well, I kind of agree with your second paragraph, but for real, I think it's water under the bridge.

Which brings me to your first paragraph. Bands can't return to the original sound that they had. Nobody has ever been able to do it. Quite a few people in this forum seem to think that AC(G) will be the first ones to get the magic back. I give it a 0,0001% chance. It doesn't mean that I hate the idea or "fear" it as a poster recently put it. I simply don't think it is a thing.

Looking at all the bands that went to their roots or tried to recapture it, let alone the ones that haven't been together for a while - not even the 40+ years of AC - have failed. Miserably. And broke the hearts of all the people that for years or in this case decades thought that, if only they would go back..

They can't. It cannot be done.

Therefore if they did play Luney tune, you'd be disappointed. And after recovering from that, you'd be disillusioned. What good would that do for anyone?

I want to go back to late 80's raves. I really do. But it cannot be done.

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Re: Paranormal CD 2 with original Alice Cooper band plus some live songs. Very good or excellent?

Post by Si » Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:35 pm

'Public Animal' from the same show is on the 'Sound Of A' single (along with 'Black Widow', 'Is It My Body' and 'Cold Ethyl').

Luney Tune, Big Apple, Hallowed, Never been sold, black Juju and Hard Hearted Alice haven`t been played live since the 70s (some never at all) so couldn't be included unless they'd done a special show with a different setlist.

If you are asking why these songs haven't been played, that's a different question. But they could only really include songs on the CD that were in the current show. That show's setlist WAS tired and needed a shake up, which they did last year.

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Re: Paranormal CD 2 with original Alice Cooper band plus some live songs. Very good or excellent?

Post by guttertrash » Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:14 am

Long Way To Go and Guilty should have been on CD2 or on The Sound of A single.

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Re: Paranormal CD 2 with original Alice Cooper band. Very good or excellent?

Post by nicnic » Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:29 am

Maaki wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:49 pm
Well, I kind of agree with your second paragraph, but for real, I think it's water under the bridge.

Which brings me to your first paragraph. Bands can't return to the original sound that they had. Nobody has ever been able to do it. Quite a few people in this forum seem to think that AC(G) will be the first ones to get the magic back. I give it a 0,0001% chance. It doesn't mean that I hate the idea or "fear" it as a poster recently put it. I simply don't think it is a thing.

Looking at all the bands that went to their roots or tried to recapture it, let alone the ones that haven't been together for a while - not even the 40+ years of AC - have failed. Miserably. And broke the hearts of all the people that for years or in this case decades thought that, if only they would go back..

They can't. It cannot be done.

Therefore if they did play Luney tune, you'd be disappointed. And after recovering from that, you'd be disillusioned. What good would that do for anyone?

I want to go back to late 80's raves. I really do. But it cannot be done.
Ac/dc has though, they really never lost that same certain sound. There are just slight differences in sound between Back in black(1980) and Ballbreaker(1995), the sound is quite close in drumming, guitars and vocals-that cool vibe. A band or artist can do it, although it can be difficult but it is possible, it probably would take months or longer of practice, hearing the original songs over and over then creating new ones with same sound (a computer/robot band trying that in year 2200/2500?-I know that sounds way out there but).

I think Black Sabbath tried to capture their original 70's sound with 13, maby? Maby thats heavier than Master of reality. I would lovv it the exact same. Master of reality is Cooper's Love it to death and Killer. Although I know Sabbath's sound changed somewhat with a number of albums.

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Re: Paranormal CD 2 with original Alice Cooper band plus some live songs. Very good or excellent?

Post by nicnic » Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:48 am

guttertrash wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:14 am
Long Way To Go and Guilty should have been on CD2 or on The Sound of A single.
My live song list in first post only included 1970's with original band, but yes Guilty -for sure, Didn't we meet, Wish you were here and songs- Devil's food- for sure, other for sures--- From the inside, The quiet room, Nurse Rosetta, Serious, Jacknife Johnny, Inmates(we're all crazy) but kept exactly as original songs since they did change the sound when they preformed that live after the album release. They seemed to have made From the inside song a little more up beat. Seems different than the album version. I never like that change they made. There I am playing the beginning of that cd/(lp years ago) with full bass highs to max giving it a more metal sound then I see and hear that live 1979 version, was disappointed.

Live version-(it starts at 1:38)-
https://youtu.be/xxHh0Xcf7cw

COMPARE that to the original-
https://youtu.be/Z81qXa0OsKI
Last edited by nicnic on Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:00 am, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: Paranormal CD 2 with original Alice Cooper band plus some live songs. Very good or excellent?

Post by nicnic » Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:05 am

Maaki wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:49 pm
Which brings me to your first paragraph. Bands can't return to the original sound that they had. Nobody has ever been able to do it. Quite a few people in this forum seem to think that AC(G) will be the first ones to get the magic back. I give it a 0,0001% chance. It doesn't mean that I hate the idea or "fear" it as a poster recently put it.

Looking at all the bands that went to their roots or tried to recapture it, let alone the ones that haven't been together for a while - not even the 40+ years of AC - have failed. Miserably. And broke the hearts of all the people that for years or in this case decades thought that, if only they would go back..

They can't. It cannot be done.
edit---
Ac/dc has though, they really never lost that same certain sound in (almost?) all their albums. There are just slight differences in sound between Back in black(1980), Ballbreaker(1995), Rock or bust(2014) the sound is quite close in drumming, guitars and vocals-that cool vibe. A band or artist can do it, although it can be difficult depending on how a band or artist sounds, the more unique or complex a sound the more difficult, but it is possible.

edit---
Master of reality and Paranoid is Cooper's Love it to death and Killer.

edit---
Beatlemania :) (a tribute band formed in 1980 recreated the sights and sounds of The Beatles from an era of the 1960s).
Alice Coopermania :love: (a tribute band not yet formed to recreate the sights and sounds of The Alice Cooper Group from an era of 1971 to 1978).

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Re: Paranormal CD 2 with original Alice Cooper band plus some live songs. Very good or excellent?

Post by Maaki » Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:40 pm

nicnic wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:05 am
Maaki wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:49 pm
Which brings me to your first paragraph. Bands can't return to the original sound that they had. Nobody has ever been able to do it. Quite a few people in this forum seem to think that AC(G) will be the first ones to get the magic back. I give it a 0,0001% chance. It doesn't mean that I hate the idea or "fear" it as a poster recently put it.

Looking at all the bands that went to their roots or tried to recapture it, let alone the ones that haven't been together for a while - not even the 40+ years of AC - have failed. Miserably. And broke the hearts of all the people that for years or in this case decades thought that, if only they would go back..

They can't. It cannot be done.
edit---
Ac/dc has though, they really never lost that same certain sound in (almost?) all their albums. There are just slight differences in sound between Back in black(1980), Ballbreaker(1995), Rock or bust(2014) the sound is quite close in drumming, guitars and vocals-that cool vibe. A band or artist can do it, although it can be difficult depending on how a band or artist sounds, the more unique or complex a sound the more difficult, but it is possible.

edit---
Master of reality and Paranoid is Cooper's Love it to death and Killer.

edit---
Beatlemania :) (a tribute band formed in 1980 recreated the sights and sounds of The Beatles from an era of the 1960s).
Alice Coopermania :love: (a tribute band not yet formed to recreate the sights and sounds of The Alice Cooper Group from an era of 1971 to 1978).
Good points, but I am not moved. AC/DC never went away for extended time, there are just different iterations.

Beatlemania and Coopermania are different because they are not trying to go back. They are trying to emulate. Going back by an original artist would require new songs that went back. That is so so hard to do and acts often start slipping even when they are still together for various reasons. "The Manual (How to Have a Number One the Easy Way)" by The guys behind The KLF touches this perfectly although many other things in there are obviously outdated. And on top of that writing songs is not the same when you are 20+ and when you are 70+. I Don't for a second believe Alice and Dennis - the most lovable of men - suddenly can turn back to being dangerous and threatening the moral of the youth in any real sense.

Let's take Toto. I am going to assume that no one will object on agreeing that the musicianship is there to do pretty much any style. Yet they failed miserably with 14. They failed so miserably that they even did a 180 degree and started marketing it as completely different from IV - while originally it was all about returning to it, and everyone bringing their best to do it.

There is a long list of these and none of them were succesful. I picked Toto because of the fact that with them, no one can argue that they don't possess the skills to do it.

Creating art is a fickle fleeting thing.

Off topic, though. Si, feel free to snip at least my posts if you feel they are too far.

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Re: Paranormal CD 2 with original Alice Cooper band plus some live songs. Very good or excellent?

Post by Babysquid » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:35 pm

The main problem with recreating that 70’s “ultra cool rock” sound is down to the type of coolant systems used in studios these days. As the 60’s came to an end and the 70’s dawned the original 1950’s thermo chillsonic units began to degrade giving at first a pleasant hallucinogenic flavor and later a trashy glam vibe to recordings. Unfortunately as the decade progressed maintainability became impractical they became overblown and tended to leak an extended waffle gas causing prog pollution. Most original units were changed for solid state Punkifier-Discomatics in 1975/76 and they were finally outlawed in the early 80’s after Marillion attempted to revive one for the b-side of their debut single and almost took us back to the Stone Age.
Almost all of today’s musical temperature is regulated using hi-tech digital modeling software and plug ins which although generally very good and more reliable can’t quite recreate the bracing freshness of yesteryear.

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Re: Paranormal CD 2 with original Alice Cooper band plus some live songs. Very good or excellent?

Post by Daggers & Contracts » Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:59 am

Babysquid wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:35 pm
The main problem with recreating that 70’s “ultra cool rock” sound is down to the type of coolant systems used in studios these days. As the 60’s came to an end and the 70’s dawned the original 1950’s thermo chillsonic units began to degrade giving at first a pleasant hallucinogenic flavor and later a trashy glam vibe to recordings. Unfortunately as the decade progressed maintainability became impractical they became overblown and tended to leak an extended waffle gas causing prog pollution. Most original units were changed for solid state Punkifier-Discomatics in 1975/76 and they were finally outlawed in the early 80’s after Marillion attempted to revive one for the b-side of their debut single and almost took us back to the Stone Age.
Almost all of today’s musical temperature is regulated using hi-tech digital modeling software and plug ins which although generally very good and more reliable can’t quite recreate the bracing freshness of yesteryear.
To fully understand this post you must 1st grasp the analog age.
A good reference point would be the DVD "Sound City" :teach:
I've Got The Answers To All Of Your Questions...

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Re: Paranormal CD 2 with original Alice Cooper band plus some live songs. Very good or excellent?

Post by Saint&Sinner » Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:02 am

About going back to a bands old sound.
This is near impossible, while recording techniques have obviously changed this doesn't inherently preclude an "old skool sound/vibe" Things like kempers can recreate any sound to an insane degree where seasoned producers cannot tell the difference between a kemper and a true tech (old amp etc)
The issue is for you to go back to a mind-set and frame of mind when you were in your early 20s is impossible.
As an example, allot of people (and I strongly suspect the alice cooper group falls into this category) do not understand music when they are young, they can play etc but they do not often understand musical theory (what notes come after what etc) this is normally learnt over time so you then do not have that crazy kind of spontaneity and creative mind you did when younger.
A few bands stay playing the same kind of sound as before (ACDC and Sabbath was mentioned) ACDC while a similar style do not have anywhere near the same quality and often sounds by the numbers and dull. Sabbath tried on 13 to get "back to basics" and while sonically it is dirty, it doesn't compare to the old 70s and sounds forced. Sometimes bands can organically return to a style/sound but it is rare, the most prominent example currently is Paradise Lost with Medusa, and while this is a return to an earlier sound it doesn't make for a great album.
Bands inherently try to progress and change. Sometimes bands can naturally return to a style but rarely can they capture that magic. Any group together long enough will get stale, this is one reason why producer can be so key - Judas Priests latest album firepower was a superb album thanks to andy sneaps deft hand but it doesn't return to an older sound it just delivers a modern great metal album

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Re: Paranormal CD 2 with original Alice Cooper band plus some live songs. Very good or excellent?

Post by patrick » Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:11 am

I honestly wonder, if I would hear a "new song" and had no information about the band behind Alice... would I recognise the sound of the ACG ? Perhaps not because I am always focused on Alice's voice, which imo is the most distinctive feature..
there are so many different styles throughout the 26 albums..the voice is what makes them recognisable as AC to me..
but then again, I am no expert ..
you really wouldn't understand..

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Re: Paranormal CD 2 with original Alice Cooper band plus some live songs. Very good or excellent?

Post by guttertrash » Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:40 am

There are many reasons that albums and bands don’t sound like they used too. One is the equipment and techniques used in most modern studios. Everything from mics to computer programs have led to a more modern sound. Newer gear also has a different level of compression. Take the original
Big Muff fuzz or RAT distortion pedals compared to the newer ones for instance. The wiring in the newer ones gives off a bit more of a compressed tone than the originals. This goes for most equipment these days.

Two is due to how albums are mixed. Digital medium such as CDs and downloadable files today can handle lower (as well as higher) frequencies than what vinyl was capable of, and most albums today take advantage of the wider range of frequencies that can be used. Sadly the loudness wars have led to so much compression that it leaves most albums with little dynamic range though. Vinyl mixes while still having better dynamic range are still mixed in a different manner than they once were also.

The biggest difference though is in the art of songwriting. Most bands do not have rehearsal and songwriting sessions these days in the manner that most bands used too. It is so easy to live across the world from each other, but you can record a riff and then send it to everybody to learn, and you go in rehearse it to get it tight and then record. Or you record your piece and then have it plugged into the mix via protools without the band ever ever playing together. Either way, bands are not in the same room letting riffs and jams morph into spontaneous creations which end up as great songs.

Many bands were in a studio or practice room spending the full day working on their songs, and established bands used to use their soundchecks as a time to jam out on a new riff to help have ideas or songs for the next album, but Alice can’t even do that since his touring band isn’t used. It is also just not nearly as big of a practice as it once was. These days music is pretty much written by one person, and there may be some minor changes and lyrics added if a producer sees fit, but it is mostly a finished product which means there is less chance of some kind of spontaneous, lightning in the bottle moments of genius.

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Re: Paranormal CD 2 with original Alice Cooper band plus some live songs. Very good or excellent?

Post by Babysquid » Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:25 pm

Daggers & Contracts wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:59 am
Babysquid wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:35 pm
The main problem with recreating that 70’s “ultra cool rock” sound is down to the type of coolant systems used in studios these days. As the 60’s came to an end and the 70’s dawned the original 1950’s thermo chillsonic units began to degrade giving at first a pleasant hallucinogenic flavor and later a trashy glam vibe to recordings. Unfortunately as the decade progressed maintainability became impractical they became overblown and tended to leak an extended waffle gas causing prog pollution. Most original units were changed for solid state Punkifier-Discomatics in 1975/76 and they were finally outlawed in the early 80’s after Marillion attempted to revive one for the b-side of their debut single and almost took us back to the Stone Age.
Almost all of today’s musical temperature is regulated using hi-tech digital modeling software and plug ins which although generally very good and more reliable can’t quite recreate the bracing freshness of yesteryear.
To fully understand this post you must 1st grasp the analog age.
A good reference point would be the DVD "Sound City" :teach:
Eh?

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Re: Paranormal CD 2 with original Alice Cooper band plus some live songs. Very good or excellent?

Post by cooperrocks » Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:50 pm

I am probably going to get slammed for this but I don't care that much for either one of the new original band songs. This is one of the reasons why I am not in favor of a full fledged reunion tour or album. The current band is my favorite of Alice's career. They are are great players and the energy is incredible. The times that there has been a reunion in recent years there just hasn't been as much energy to me (just my two cents and no offense to anyone who disagrees). We can all hear the 70's hits played extremely well by the current band plus songs from later eras. With the original band that means you don't get WTMN material, Poison, Roses on White Lace, etc and one of the things I have enjoyed most about the current tour is there is a lot more 80's material. If anything I would like to hear more of the newer stuff thrown in and less emphasis on the 70's stuff because I have heard it a ton of times. The old adage you can't go home again applies. It was a great era no question but an era that passed decades ago and I don't care to relive that. I am interested in the fact Alice is still an unbelievable front man and performer and interested in the future. I would love to hear a studio album with the current band.

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Re: Paranormal CD 2 with original Alice Cooper band plus some live songs. Very good or excellent?

Post by pitkin88 » Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:58 pm

Yet you don't apply the old adage to Alice with this new album sounds like Killer. Alice is steeped in the past. Bringing back Ezrin is the past. The songs live are the past.
His touring band does not sound like a recording band to me. The anointed one of three lead guitarists is just a soloist who I doubt is capable of coming up with any good riffs. The whole band seems bloated to me. The life gets sucked out of a lot of the songs. To be honest all of his back up bands over the years were great players. Not sure why this one seems so well liked. Pomp and bombast.

As for the original band, I have given up any thought of seeing them live. They and Alice are too old and I'm not paying to see a 30 min set. I would like to hear them play more with Alice in the studio though. Or have him adapt their songs. Of the remaining three Dennis seems the most creative. This last album is the first in a long time I have liked more than four songs.

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Re: Paranormal CD 2 with original Alice Cooper band plus some live songs. Very good or excellent?

Post by Serpens_Albus » Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:55 pm

I think it's the same with almost all other artists like Alice. They play songs that appeal to the majority. Maybe once in a while, they'll add a rare / old song to the setlist.

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