Have you changed your mind?

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Rhapsody of Fire
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Re: Have you changed your mind?

Post by Rhapsody of Fire » Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:09 pm

Saint&Sinner wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:23 am
I disagree with the bowie comment, but as mentioned a topic for another thread :)
However to say alice is tired I think is crazy, he is on fire and for 70 whatever he is, man he has more energy than I do and im nearly half his age.
Welcome to my nightmare was polished, agreed but it had edge (devils food, black widow, cold ethyl and I think the back end of the album was very dark and edgy) and to stay on topic, welcome to my nightmare gets better every year.
I think its definitely in my top five alice and possibly top 5 of all time.

Go to hell, definitely a drop off but it had more than enough to keep me engaged. it was only lace and whiskey that stunk the place out (which gets worse the more I listen to it)

Given that muscle of love was such a drop off from the preceding albums and battle axe just does not excite at all, or offer the depths that something like welcome to my nightmare does (granted I wasn't around at the time so not sure what impact it had musically at the time, but judging from sales, not much) . the band seemed to have run its course.
He will be 72 years old, next month.

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Re: Have you changed your mind?

Post by kevinuk81 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:04 pm

Shoesalesman wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:10 pm
Saint&Sinner wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:18 am
Crazy Little Child, to me, is one of the most underrated songs Alice has released. In my top ten for sure
this is one of the songs which has got worse for me! I didn't like it at first and its only got worse as time has gone on. But Muscle of love was never an album I was in love with, tho oddly have always loved hard hearted alice.
I'm a huge fan of the showtune-type songs AC does (Some Folks, Detroit City, Give The Kid A Break, Last Man On Earth... etc). MOL, admittedly, was not my favorite upon first listen (as I felt the band had taken their foot off the gas a bit), but it has its own charm and merit.

Most of Alice's albums have aged well, with the exception of D********N. Triggerman, Every Woman Has A Name, great songs. But D****R still stinks up a room.
Deeper????
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Re: Have you changed your mind?

Post by Saint&Sinner » Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:30 am

I love deeper :) its quite crazy how different peoples tastes can be.......

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Re: Have you changed your mind?

Post by Shoesalesman » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:29 pm

kevinuk81 wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:04 pm
Deeper????
Yes. D****R. :grin:
If I may put forward a slice of personal colostomy...

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Re: Have you changed your mind?

Post by Ted Sallis » Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:52 pm

PFOLGORE wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:17 am
Yes, it was the sound track for a television special and that was the loophole in the contract that allow Alice to record an Album on a different label. Seeing that the WTMN album was a success that embolden Alice and management to cut ties and go solo. Later all members of the group received a contractual demand to record the final album, but only Alice participated on it. If this is true, then obviously Alice, Shep and Bob engineered the bands “breakup”, in modern parlance the original members got “ghosted” by Alice. Alice could have easily said, “look guys, we are contractually obligated to make one more album and then after that I want to try my luck as a solo performer.” It would have been so easy to do the final album with the whole group, but he chose not to. Had management been more upfront and honest they may have gotten sued, but the ambiguity and lack of clear communication on the part management probably confused the band enough to prevent them from taking any decisive action. Even to this day they are hoping Alice will take them back.
WTMN being the soundtrack to a TV Special and that being the loophole in the contract that allowed the album to be released on another label could be true as well as the album's success emboldening Alice to continue his solo career, but all Members of the ACG receiving a contractual demand to record a final album but only Alice participating on it is false as far as I'm aware. Yes, a new recording contract was drawn up but it was for Alice alone, not the entire Group according to what Dennis Dunaway wrote in his book. I assume the new contract was with WB which allowed Alice to record/release Goes To Hell, Lace & Whiskey, etc. under the label. The rest of the Group never sued Alice as they wanted to preserve their friendship (not to mention any likelihood of a reunion).

Ted

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Re: Have you changed your mind?

Post by PFOLGORE » Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:06 am

Ted Sallis wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:52 pm
PFOLGORE wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:17 am
Yes, it was the sound track for a television special and that was the loophole in the contract that allow Alice to record an Album on a different label. Seeing that the WTMN album was a success that embolden Alice and management to cut ties and go solo. Later all members of the group received a contractual demand to record the final album, but only Alice participated on it. If this is true, then obviously Alice, Shep and Bob engineered the bands “breakup”, in modern parlance the original members got “ghosted” by Alice. Alice could have easily said, “look guys, we are contractually obligated to make one more album and then after that I want to try my luck as a solo performer.” It would have been so easy to do the final album with the whole group, but he chose not to. Had management been more upfront and honest they may have gotten sued, but the ambiguity and lack of clear communication on the part management probably confused the band enough to prevent them from taking any decisive action. Even to this day they are hoping Alice will take them back.
WTMN being the soundtrack to a TV Special and that being the loophole in the contract that allowed the album to be released on another label could be true as well as the album's success emboldening Alice to continue his solo career, but all Members of the ACG receiving a contractual demand to record a final album but only Alice participating on it is false as far as I'm aware. Yes, a new recording contract was drawn up but it was for Alice alone, not the entire Group according to what Dennis Dunaway wrote in his book. I assume the new contract was with WB which allowed Alice to record/release Goes To Hell, Lace & Whiskey, etc. under the label. The rest of the Group never sued Alice as they wanted to preserve their friendship (not to mention any likelihood of a reunion).

Ted
if there were no further obligations for the band with Warner Brothers why did Alice have to find a loophole to record WTMN on Atlantic? Obliviously they were still under contract with Warner Brothers. But either way the result is the same.

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Re: Have you changed your mind?

Post by Railwayman » Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:43 am

I remember being quite enthused during the build up to release of ACAS. The concept was interesting and the snippets wetted my appetite. How disappointed was I when spinning it for the first time on its release. Despite subsequent re-listens in the early days I just could not bring myself around to liking it and it has "rested", unloved in my collection ever since. Upon encountering this thread I dug it out again to see how time has played with my original view. After another spin my conclusion of many moons ago is still there in so far as it will never make my top 20 never mind top 10 but I do now think that hidden in the midst of a load of old trollop are some interesting riffs and ideas. Final thoughts ..... a great opportunity missed.

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Re: Have you changed your mind?

Post by Ted Sallis » Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:33 pm

PFOLGORE wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:06 am
if there were no further obligations for the band with Warner Brothers why did Alice have to find a loophole to record WTMN on Atlantic? Obliviously they were still under contract with Warner Brothers. But either way the result is the same.
Well, I'm not certain that Alice did or had to find a loophole to record WTMN on Atlantic. It's been stated elsewhere that Atlantic was a subsidiary of WB, therefore Nightmare was actually the last album that the ACG owed to WB but it was recorded and released as an AC solo album instead. Previously, I always thought that MOL was the last album the Group owed the record label and then they put out the Greatest Hits album in 1974.

Ted

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Re: Have you changed your mind?

Post by Daggers & Contracts » Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:54 am

Ted Sallis wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:33 pm
PFOLGORE wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:06 am
if there were no further obligations for the band with Warner Brothers why did Alice have to find a loophole to record WTMN on Atlantic? Obliviously they were still under contract with Warner Brothers. But either way the result is the same.
Well, I'm not certain that Alice did or had to find a loophole to record WTMN on Atlantic. It's been stated elsewhere that Atlantic was a subsidiary of WB, therefore Nightmare was actually the last album that the ACG owed to WB but it was recorded and released as an AC solo album instead. Previously, I always thought that MOL was the last album the Group owed the record label and then they put out the Greatest Hits album in 1974.

Ted
Congrats Ted,
I was wondering when somebody would mention GH as well as the Atlantic option but, unless AMUK has an issue with this observation I believe you're spot on!
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Re: Have you changed your mind?

Post by Si » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:27 am

WTMN was NOT part of the original WB contract. That was the point.

https://www.sickthingsuk.co.uk/01-disco ... htmare.php
"'Welcome To My Nightmare' was promoted as the soundtrack to the TV special, which allowed Shep and Alice to use a loophole in their contract with Warner Brothers Records and sign a deal with Atlantic Records who released the album in the US (it was on Anchor in the UK). Atlantic, while technically owned by Warner Brothers, was a major label in it's own right and autonomous. Warners were not happy to see their golden goose flying off to a rival. They fought to get him back in time for follow-up 'Goes To Hell'. It was all record company politics really, but likely helped Shep negotiate a better deal for future Alice solo albums when they returned to Warners the following year. Years later Warners obtained the rights to the record anyway."

I think GH could actually have been the last album of the original band contract (I could be wrong, but Greatest Hits packages are often used to fulfill contractual obligations). It was also released to give the band a break in 1974.
Shep used the WTMN/Atlantic deal and the albums success as a way to get a better contract from WB. GTH was the first album of a new contract, which only had Alice and Shep's signatures.

EDIT: Actually rethinking that GH couldn't have been the last album in the contract, as then they wouldn't have needed a "loophole" in the WB contract for WTMN...

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Re: Have you changed your mind?

Post by Ted Sallis » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:22 am

^^ Thank you for your post, Si. I was just repeating what I'd read elsewhere when I posted about WTMN being the last album in the ACG's contract. It doesn't really seem plausible to me anyway. Hopefully AMUK will chime in if he has any further insight re. which was the final album in the Original Group's contract. I read an interview with Neal Smith awhile ago within which he stated that the Group actually had to renew their contract with WB after each album was released as the record label thought each album's success was a fluke...up until BDB. If accurate, that fact could shed some light on the question but I'm not sure who else might have knowledge of the scenario Neal described?

Ted

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Re: Have you changed your mind?

Post by Si » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:31 am

Ted Sallis wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:22 am
Hopefully AMUK will chime in if he has any further insight re. which was the final album in the Original Group's contract.
GTH WAS the final release on the original contract.

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Re: Have you changed your mind?

Post by Ted Sallis » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:25 pm

^^ Thanks again Si.

Ted

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Re: Have you changed your mind?

Post by erickana666 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:38 am

At first i hate lace and whiskey and because of the prom videos now i like this album a lot

Because of the song hearted alice, i appreciate more muscle of love

Along comes a spider, ive tried and tried to like it gut the guitar parts are so weak that i cant.

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Re: Have you changed your mind?

Post by pitkin88 » Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:21 pm

There are a few Alice albums I have re looked at after years of blind following. I will never again listen to Lace and Whiskey, FTI and GTH. I gave a fair shake to Dragontown thinking I might have been to harsh but my initial dislike remains. The only album I can't find ONE song I like on is ACAS. Miserable album!

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Re: Have you changed your mind?

Post by pitkin88 » Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:24 pm

I really enjoyed Padres views on MOL and wish there was a separate thread for that one. Worst of the Cooper albums if you take out the first two.

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