Bob & Shep & Alice are ok

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PFOLGORE
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Bob & Shep & Alice are ok

Post by PFOLGORE » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:46 am

I believe and it is becoming more and more apparent that the original Alice Cooper band became a to big to fail corporate band during the making School’s Out. Bob, also would be judged as a producer by the bands output; Therefore he did what he needed to do not to fail by bringing in musicians to plays the key roles. Maybe Dennis and Neil appeared on every track, but those are the two most generic roles. The focus is always on Glen, but I think Michael got cut out of the picture too.

The part about keeping Glen around for appearances I tend to doubt. Probably only the most hardcore fan knew who he was. WTMN did great and none of the originals were around. I think either out of guilt or human kindness they kept Glen around.

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Re: Bob & Shep & Alice are ok

Post by mr.barlow » Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:24 am

I don't think they became a "corporate band", but rather a case of them progressing musically. Ezrin was a very talented individual who pushed them to their limits and demanded perfection. He did what he had to do to get it including bringing in session men.

It is beyond foolish to say Dennis & Neal had "generic roles". My God, Dennis' bass playing is one of the signature sounds of the original band and Neal's playing is beyond compare. Also, remember it was Michael and Dennis who were the backbone of the songwriting. They were the one's who wrote the classic songs. It must be noted that Ezrin also deserves a huge amount of credit when it comes to the songwriting and arranging as he brought it all together. Without any of those guys there would have never been an Alice Cooper.

I agree that as time went on the dynamics changed. A lot of it had to do with individual egos and differences. All will admit to that. Also, every band reaches it's pinnacle (B$B) and then there is a downward slide. For the most part the original band went out on top. The problem is that none of the other original members were able to build on the success the way that Alice did.

As far as Glen is concerned, it has been discussed on here time and time again. Every band has a "weakest link" and in the case of Alice Cooper it was Glen. It's my opinion that it all got too big for him and he got overwhelmed. Once the session men came in playing his parts he basically threw in the towel. In a way I can't blame him, but it was his choice. Everybody involved tried to get him help.

I think the reason they kept him around was they thought he could get through it and keep him going until he did. The reason they kept him around was friendship, loyalty and compassion.

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Re: Bob & Shep & Alice are ok

Post by VinceLeeRose » Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:18 pm

PFOLGORE wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:46 am
I believe and it is becoming more and more apparent that the original Alice Cooper band became a to big to fail corporate band during the making School’s Out. Bob, also would be judged as a producer by the bands output; Therefore he did what he needed to do not to fail by bringing in musicians to plays the key roles. Maybe Dennis and Neil appeared on every track, but those are the two most generic roles. The focus is always on Glen, but I think Michael got cut out of the picture too.

The part about keeping Glen around for appearances I tend to doubt. Probably only the most hardcore fan knew who he was. WTMN did great and none of the originals were around. I think either out of guilt or human kindness they kept Glen around.

WTMN was a success no doubt, but the follow up solo album Goes to Hell failed to break the top 20, and he wouldn’t have a top 20 album until over a decade later. I love Alice, but his career started declining after WTMN and the break up of the band

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Re: Bob & Shep & Alice are ok

Post by Babysquid » Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:37 pm

Wow! I thought from the title that they’d been in a helicopter crash, car accident or something !
As Mr.B rightly points out Michael and Dennis were a very important part of the songwriting and I think you might find that they were essential to B$B.

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Re: Bob & Shep & Alice are ok

Post by wind_up_toy » Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:44 pm

VinceLeeRose wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:18 pm
PFOLGORE wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:46 am
I believe and it is becoming more and more apparent that the original Alice Cooper band became a to big to fail corporate band during the making School’s Out. Bob, also would be judged as a producer by the bands output; Therefore he did what he needed to do not to fail by bringing in musicians to plays the key roles. Maybe Dennis and Neil appeared on every track, but those are the two most generic roles. The focus is always on Glen, but I think Michael got cut out of the picture too.

The part about keeping Glen around for appearances I tend to doubt. Probably only the most hardcore fan knew who he was. WTMN did great and none of the originals were around. I think either out of guilt or human kindness they kept Glen around.

WTMN was a success no doubt, but the follow up solo album Goes to Hell failed to break the top 20, and he wouldn’t have a top 20 album until over a decade later. I love Alice, but his career started declining after WTMN and the break up of the band
I know what you’re saying, but is it right to state that a career went into decline when it went on quite successfully for another 40 years+? That’s some 10 times longer than what preceded it.

We probably all agree that the dizzy heights of B$B were never beaten, but then there was no guarantee whatsoever that the ACG would have done that either.
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Re: Bob & Shep & Alice are ok

Post by Saint&Sinner » Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:05 am

Maybe Dennis and Neil appeared on every track, but those are the two most generic roles
wow. Dennis and Neil were anything but generic, the bass lines and drum patterns they both did were exemplary and arguably better than Michael or glen in terms of technicality. It's still precious few people who can drum to billion dollar babies properly. (just listen to the rather poor version glen sobel does for evidence)

Alice did decline after Go to hell, but equally the nightmare returns tour in 1986 was huge despite lukewarm album sales. Then trash obviously set everything off like a rocket. Alices career has had ups and downs but who in rock hasn't?
Alice being corporate during the band days I don't think is really true, alice became corporate in his Lace and whiskey days I would argue but not in the early band days.
As far as Glen is concerned, it has been discussed on here time and time again. Every band has a "weakest link" and in the case of Alice Cooper it was Glen. It's my opinion that it all got too big for him and he got overwhelmed. Once the session men came in playing his parts he basically threw in the towel. In a way I can't blame him, but it was his choice. Everybody involved tried to get him help.
A very good point and I think has parallels to kiss and ace frehley/peter criss - both got pushed increasingly to the sidelines due to substance abuse and issues keeping up musically.

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Re: Bob & Shep & Alice are ok

Post by patrick » Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:52 am

quote
I know what you’re saying, but is it right to state that a career went into decline when it went on quite successfully for another 40 years+? That’s some 10 times longer than what preceded it.

We probably all agree that the dizzy heights of B$B were never beaten, but then there was no guarantee whatsoever that the ACG would have done that either.
[/quote]

Quite right. Besides, the whole scene has changed. In those days the record shops were about the only place to get music, and in "my" shop, which was known as an important one, there was about one floor and very limited range of genres to choose from..
Are there any bands nowadays that reach the heights of the bands in the time of B$B ? And if so, for how long?
you really wouldn't understand..

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