SLICK BLACK LIMOUSINE

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pitkin88
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SLICK BLACK LIMOUSINE

Post by pitkin88 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:13 am

I think it was one of the finest songs the original band performed. Some thoughts and questions.

1) Again Glen was missing and remarkably won some award for the amazing Mick Mashbir played solo. Talk about a kick in the teeth? I'm not sure how Glen went along with that.

2) For non UK fans. Did any of you buy it upon release? I'm guessing in some major cities the NME was imported. How did you hear about it? I remember seeing a stack of them outside the news agents. The flexi was bound with string.

3) For a flexi disc it still plays remarkably well.

4) I'm pretty sure Dennis wrote most of the song with Alice changing some lyrics. Is it known who changed the title from Coal Black Model T?

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Re: SLICK BLACK LIMOUSINE

Post by Ted Sallis » Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:33 pm

My replies/answers:

1. I'm not familiar with the award GB apparently won for Mick's solo in the song (I also didn't know that MM played a solo in it but I need to check Dennis' book). As for Glen's having gone along with it, GB didn't really play on the BDB and MOL albums and his guitar was often/mostly turned down (or off) during shows on the last 2 or 3 ACG tours. He went along with all of that too, as well as getting the same pay as the rest of the band apart from songwriting and publishing royalties.

2. I myself didn't 'buy' the song until it appeared on 'The Life & Crimes...' box set.

3. That's quite remarkable and good, of course.

4. Dennis wrote in his book that Alice changed the song title to Slick Black Limousine.

Ted

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Re: SLICK BLACK LIMOUSINE

Post by mr.barlow » Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:57 pm

I think it was one of the finest songs the original band performed. Some thoughts and questions.

1) Again Glen was missing and remarkably won some award for the amazing Mick Mashbir played solo. Talk about a kick in the teeth? I'm not sure how Glen went along with that.
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This is something that I have commented on several times over the years in this forum. It is now known that Glen did not play on tracks on School's Out, played nothing on B$B or MOL, yet the listening public thinks it is he who is playing on those albums.

I understand that Hunter, Mashbir, Wagner and others were compensated for the session work, but now enough time has passed that at least they should be given proper credit on their contributions to each song. After all, the listener is hearing THEIR talents, not those of GB.

My suggestion is that in any future re-releases of the album that each song be broken down with who played what giving each musician their proper credit and due. It should also point out clearly that even though GB was still a member of the band he did not play on the album(s). Also, in any historical accounts of the albums say like on Wikipedia or fan sites, their contributions should clearly be stated.

I believe Hunter broke down each song on B$B and explained who played what and it's in the archives of this forum. If I remember right it was the user that used to be on here by the name of Crayon that posted it. It was an valuable piece of Alice history.

Also, in once again reading through Wagner's book he states he played on SEVERAL tracks on School's Out. Not just "My Stars". Which leads me to believe he and possibly other session men were more involved in those sessions. Hopefully someone from the original band or their handlers could comment and clarify.

I did not know about GB receiving an award for his "contribution" to Slick Black Limousine, but it brings to mind the Milli Vanilli fiasco. They were given an award for an album that they did not sing on. They eventually had to return the award and eat crow. Granted, it was likely a fan vote award from NME and not at the level of a Grammy so I think it is really pointless to push it any further ---but it should be accurately noted in the archives that Mashbir played the solo and GB got the award.

So much for Shep & company pushing GB "out the door" as the Whiney Mime is so fond of saying. See Ted's above post and it shows the lengths that Alice, the band and management went to protect and help Glen even when he wouldn't help himself.

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Re: SLICK BLACK LIMOUSINE

Post by Babysquid » Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:22 pm

“Also, in once again reading through Wagner's book he states he played on SEVERAL tracks on School's Out. Not just "My Stars". Which leads me to believe he and possibly other session men were more involved in those sessions. Hopefully someone from the original band or their handlers could comment and clarify. ”

Actually he says he played on a couple, but then he says that these sessions were between 1969 and 1970. Later on when talking about Dada he says that “Wake me Gently” was on the album. He also mentioned touring Dada in the podcast interview he did about the album. Of course he was there but I wouldn’t take his memories as gospel.

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Re: SLICK BLACK LIMOUSINE

Post by mr.barlow » Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:40 pm

He states he was paid $75.00 for the sessions and played on a couple of tracks which means more than one.

He also states he first met Alice in 1969 while Frost was opening for them on a few dates. He said that Alice approached him and at that time was interested in getting him involved with the band possibly even as a member as a
Alice saw the potential if they added Wagner's abilities.

It was ezrin who brought him into the SO sessions.

Nowhere in the book does he state "wake me gently" was on Dada. If he did please list the page number(s) where he mentions this

In interviews he stated "wake me gently" was one of his favorite ballads and I believe it was written for wtmn.

As far as touring for Dada and going to Australia...wagner had mispoken. If you read in the book Wagner states how ezrin and shep coaxed him into getting Alice to finish a tour...i think either wtmn or king of silver screen...i can't recall.

It was the first time they sent Wagner to get Alice to work. They dispatched him to the zipper sessions to try and salvage that train wreck but he was so incensed at what he saw he left.

Again....ezrin called Wagner to coax Alice into doing Dada. It's in the book.

In the podcast Wagner simply meshed the two incidents together. Wagner was not in the best if health when the podcast was conducted and died shortly thereafter.

I'd love if Suzy Michelson could get on here and be Wagner's voice for this forum. There is so much history and anecdotes that need to be told. Trust me....there is a lot there!

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Re: SLICK BLACK LIMOUSINE

Post by Cold Room » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:33 pm

Is there any way to bring up more derogatory remarks about Glen from threads below this one. I would LOVE to make a collection of them, especially since many of the posters already hide behind an alias.
(I know. LOL....you will claim this is all the truth and that YOU people have all the facts. :rotfl: )

Honestly....if anyone could collect some of the ''bash GB'' posts...I'd love to copy them down for use on my website. Andy....you must have documented some of them.

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Re: SLICK BLACK LIMOUSINE

Post by mr.barlow » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:35 pm

Please point to any "glen bashing" on this thread or anywhere on this forum. Please use direct quotes.

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Re: SLICK BLACK LIMOUSINE

Post by mr.barlow » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:37 pm

Did Glen win the award for the solo played by Mashbir on "Slick Black Limousine"? You are his brother-in-law--you could positively confirm this or totally prove it to be false.

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Re: SLICK BLACK LIMOUSINE

Post by Babysquid » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:08 pm

“Nowhere in the book does he state "wake me gently" was on Dada. If he did please list the page number(s) where he mentions this“
Yes he does. It’s in the chapter “Dada”
“While I’m reflecting on Da da, I’d like to mention a couple of OTHER SONGS FROM THE ALBUM. Pass the Gun Around is a haunting little reflection from Alice on an alcoholic and his friends passing the bottle between them - a killer as effective as a gun. I’m always a sucker for a ballad and Wake Me Gently always moved me. I wrote this song with Alice and Bob Ezrin”

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Re: SLICK BLACK LIMOUSINE

Post by mr.barlow » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:33 pm

He is relating how writing a ballad always moved him using "Wake Me Gently" as an example. It's basic reading comprehension. He is comparing writing "Pass The Gun Around" to writing ballads such as "Wake Me Gently" which by the way was also written by the three of them.

"always moved me" says it all. He had that song in mind while composing "Pass The Gun Around".

Also, if he thought the song was on the album why did he not discuss it in the podcast?

Also, I'm quite certain "Wake Me Gently" was written for WTMN as it fit the theme perfectly. It was pulled as they did not want the album to have two ballads. Amuk may be able to confirm this.

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Re: SLICK BLACK LIMOUSINE

Post by mr.barlow » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:34 pm

I'm going to contact Suzy Michaelson to see if I can get her to join. She can give a lot of insight into Dick Wagner.

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Re: SLICK BLACK LIMOUSINE

Post by Babysquid » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:43 pm

mr.barlow wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:33 pm
He is relating how writing a ballad always moved him using "Wake Me Gently" as an example. It's basic reading comprehension. He is comparing writing "Pass The Gun Around" to writing ballads such as "Wake Me Gently" which by the way was also written by the three of them.

"always moved me" says it all. He had that song in mind while composing "Pass The Gun Around".

Also, if he thought the song was on the album why did he not discuss it in the podcast?

Also, I'm quite certain "Wake Me Gently" was written for WTMN as it fit the theme perfectly. It was pulled as they did not want the album to have two ballads. Amuk may be able to confirm this.
That is not how it reads and you know it.

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Re: SLICK BLACK LIMOUSINE

Post by mr.barlow » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:23 pm

Let the other members on here read it and let's see how they comprehend it.

Again--why didn't Wagner comment on it on the podcast if he thought it was on the album?

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Re: SLICK BLACK LIMOUSINE

Post by pitkin88 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:22 pm

Here is the link to the Mick Mashbir interview. He speaks kindly of Glen.

https://www.sickthingsuk.co.uk/12-inter ... may_07.php

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Re: SLICK BLACK LIMOUSINE

Post by pitkin88 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:24 pm

mr.barlow wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:34 pm
I'm going to contact Suzy Michaelson to see if I can get her to join. She can give a lot of insight into Dick Wagner.
Who was she in relation to Dick Wagner? Also was it ever disclosed how much Dick was paid to sign over I Love The Dead?

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Re: SLICK BLACK LIMOUSINE

Post by mr.barlow » Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:36 pm

She was his manager and business partner and lifelong friend. You can look her up on FB under Susan Michaelson. She is a very nice person and is the one keeping Dick's legacy alive.

Off the top of my head it was $7,000. Dick admits he made a mistake signing it over but held no ill will as he figured it opened up the door to the writing partnership with Alice. I'll get the book back out later and make a correction if the amount is different.

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Re: SLICK BLACK LIMOUSINE

Post by mr.barlow » Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:42 pm

BTW--thanks for the Mashbir link. Just when I think I read everything on this site I find something I never saw before!

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Re: SLICK BLACK LIMOUSINE

Post by Babysquid » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:40 am

mr.barlow wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:33 pm
It's basic reading comprehension.
I’m sure I’m comprehending it as it was intended. This is a paragraph that he starts by saying he’d like to talk about songs from the album. At no point does he say, or suggest that Pass The Gun Around” reminds him or that he was thinking about “Wake Me Gently “. He finishes his sentence regarding PTGA and moves on to WMG after which he continues on with No Mans Land.
As far as I’m aware Pass The Gun Around is credited to Cooper, Wagner not Cooper, Wagner, Ezrin.
Why did he not mention it in the podcast? Because the book and the podcast are from two separate occasions and just because he made a mistake once doesn’t mean that he has to repeat it forever .
I’m not saying Dick Wagner thought “Wake Me Gently“ was on Dada end of discussion, I’m saying his memories were not infallible and his book has its fair share of inaccuracies.

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Re: SLICK BLACK LIMOUSINE

Post by pitkin88 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:49 am

This song is right up there with my favorite tracks. Ezrins production and arrangement is outstanding. Michael's rhythm is just savage, Neals jungle drums are hypnotic and never sounded better and just propel the whole thing along, Micks solo is just out there and Dennis is just fabulous. This would sound brilliant just listening to the instruments isolated. There's some really nice ragtime piano probably played by Bob and Alice's vocals are too notch. The " ay ay " vocals toward the end are very eerie. Masterpiece that probably evaded many fans for years.

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Re: SLICK BLACK LIMOUSINE

Post by Babysquid » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:31 am

I remember I first heard it on a bootleg. It was listed as an outtake from 1970. I wasn’t even born when the flexi came out (have it now though)
I like it that the group thought to do things such as this. They could easily have left it as just excerpts from the forthcoming Lp, but this along with the Nobody Likes Me flexi, the graveyard section of IIMB live and the Diary of a Mad Housewife track are buried treasure for fans to seek out.

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