Best engineered album?

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Mr.Bluelegs
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Best engineered album?

Post by Mr.Bluelegs » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:17 am

From an audio standpoint, Alice has had some excellent engineers in the studio through the years. A few observations; BDB album sounds fantastic, some have complained of too much reverb, but I think it's great. Killer sounds great, too. Goes to Hell is engineered very well, maybe a bit too much reverb on the drums on some tracks. The Lace album is also engineered extremely well. From the Inside sounds phenomenal. I'd nominate that as the best engineered. The snare and kick on the Zipper album still sounds punchy and great after all these years. On the opposite side, the MOL album isn't up to the audio standards of previous works. Any other observations?

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Re: Best engineered album?

Post by pitkin88 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:05 am

I don't know enough about engineering to comment on depth but Billion Dollar Babies sounds pretty awesome for all that is going on in that record. Muscle Of Love sounds lifeless and sterile in parts. Lace and Whiskey sound very thin with no dynamics. How much of this is down to the producer or engineer or both I have no idea.

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Re: Best engineered album?

Post by While Heaven Wept » Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:46 pm

Commenting in the engineering is a bit odd..... do you mean the best mixes?

I have run my own commercial studio for about 10 years so I can offer a little bit of unbiased observation on this. B$B is probably the pinnacle of the ACG albums in terms of audio fidelity. The drums are lovely and clean and bright and the guitars, bass and vocals all sit beautifully. Half of the Killer album is engineered incredibly well too. The songs that let is down sonically are the likes of Yeah Yeah Yeah and You Drive Me Nervous where there is a noticeable drop in quality. Almost sounds like these songs were recorded in a different session to me.

Lace & Whiskey has all the life and soul mixed out of it. The over-use of reverb just kills the mix. You can hear how weak Alice's voice is in parts due to the over reliance on double tracking and backing vocals. Some of the vocal double tracking is quite sloppy if you listen carefully.

From The Inside is probably right up there in terms of the solo albums. Everything sounds great, especially the kick, snare and guitars. I'd say as a production piece, this is his best. Just my opinion of course.

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Re: Best engineered album?

Post by mr.barlow » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:35 pm

My favorite sounding album is Goes To Hell

Dada consumes the listener---it sucks you in.

The worst: Constrictor.

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Re: Best engineered album?

Post by Saint&Sinner » Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:10 am

Depends what you mean,
Billion Dollar babies is easily the best produced of all the band stuff. I think that Hey stoopid has a great production, clear crisp, alice's voice cuts through everything with thumping drums and screaming guitars. I know allot of people don't like the clean sound of the "hair metal" days but Hey Stoopid is sonically well put together.
From the inside sounds very good with a very full sound and lush soundscape.
I would make arguments for W2MN as well. I know again allot of people don't like the "kitchen sink" approach to production but i like things clear, concise and fresh - Hey Stoopid and W2MN both fall into this category. Nothing ever gets buried and still retains the energy of the performance.

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Re: Best engineered album?

Post by Daggers & Contracts » Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:15 am

Doesn't Engineering fall into the lap of Mastering also? *spider*
It could be engineered well but, if Mastering isn't masterful won't it still sound poor? :vomit:
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Re: Best engineered album?

Post by Saint&Sinner » Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:27 am

The worst: Constrictor.
I agree with that. (i like the album, but shocking production)
ACAS is also pretty dire. how they could listen to good albums for inspiration and come away with this sounds baffles me to this day. i know the songs were patchy anyway but i think giving this to Bob Ezrin (or anyone good) would have at least made the 4 or 5 good tracks actually worth revisiting. Currently its a hard sell sonically. Very harsh and difficult to listen to.

Its a hard one to explain but I also hate Dirt Diamonds, it sounds simultaneously too raw and too polished at the same time. I don't like the material much which doesnt help but the sound is very confining and way too dry. It just sounds....off. While i wasnt the biggest fan of the eyes sonically i would take that over dirty diamonds any day of the week. something just isnt right about it.

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Re: Best engineered album?

Post by Mr.Bluelegs » Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:05 am

To clarify my intent of the tread, I was mostly looking at the sonic/aural quality of the albums which relies more on the engineers than the producer. The producer does definitely factor in to the equation as does the mastering. The producer most likely accepts or rejects the sounds that the engineers are creating. I really should have just labeled the thread "best sounding albums" but I wanted to give credit to some of the great engineers who have worked with Alice. Brian Christian comes to mind. He did LITD, Killer, Goes to Hell, and others.
I agree with the quality of ACAS. It is so compressed that the sonic life is sucked out of it. It may have been engineered well, but the mix and the mastering ruined it. On the other hand, I love the sound in Flush the Fashion.

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Re: Best engineered album?

Post by padre_sliprat » Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:05 am

I love the production and engineering of the first two albums.
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Re: Best engineered album?

Post by mestreech » Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:32 am

Can someone explain me in understandable language what is the difference between :
Producer - engineer - mastering/mixer etc.
I thought Ezrin did it all.

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Re: Best engineered album?

Post by Mr.Bluelegs » Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:27 am

mestreech wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:32 am
Can someone explain me in understandable language what is the difference between :
Producer - engineer - mastering/mixer etc.
I thought Ezrin did it all.
In a nutshell, the engineer sets up the microphones and is mostly concerned with trying to achieve a good recorded sound on an instrument or vocal. The producer usually makes decisions as to which recorded sounds he/she sounds best, assists in the arrangements of the songs, and basically oversees the entire process of the recording often with the input of the artist(s). The producer usually conducts the mixing (blending all the recorded instruments together) often with input from the artist and engineer. After a satisfactory mix is concluded, the master tape (final mixes) are sent out to another party who masters them (putting a final balance on the sonics to ensure the recording sounds good on different formats..i.e.- cd's, vinyl, streaming,). As for Ezrin, he always had a good crew working with him. He always said that you can hear every bass note that Dennis played which is true. Hope this helps a bit.

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Re: Best engineered album?

Post by guttertrash » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:25 am

mr.barlow wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:35 pm
My favorite sounding album is Goes To Hell

Dada consumes the listener---it sucks you in.

The worst: Constrictor.
Goes To Hell is also my favorite sounding album. Engineering and production were both vastly improving year after year in the 70s, and GTH saw drastically improved recording in the drumming department compared to even WTMN a year before.

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Re: Best engineered album?

Post by Ted Sallis » Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:42 pm

Overall, SO and BDB are the best sounding albums to me.

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Re: Best engineered album?

Post by Babysquid » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:03 pm

mestreech wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:32 am
Can someone explain me in understandable language what is the difference between :
Producer - engineer - mastering/mixer etc.
I thought Ezrin did it all.
Further to the early reply you could think of it like a film or tv program. The producer is the director, the engineer the camera man and the musicians are the actors. Mixing is like post production where all the raw footage is assembled into a cohesive whole and mastering is putting the final sheen on the finished product.

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Re: Best engineered album?

Post by Daggers & Contracts » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:42 pm

Babysquid wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:03 pm
mestreech wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:32 am
Can someone explain me in understandable language what is the difference between :
Producer - engineer - mastering/mixer etc.
I thought Ezrin did it all.
Further to the early reply you could think of it like a film or tv program. The producer is the director, the engineer the camera man and the musicians are the actors. Mixing is like post production where all the raw footage is assembled into a cohesive whole and mastering is putting the final sheen on the finished product.
I was involved with a local band than submitted a DAT to a CD company & when they got the Mix they said they couldn't do more with the DAT that they were provided with. Unfortunately, the "Engineer" who was also a guitarist in the band somehow deleted the "Demo" files he used when he provided his "Final Mix". :x The band was none too pleased & a revolving door of Rhythm guitarists soon became the norm. They did have 1 local hit & video that resonated with the Troops. It takes professionals at all levels to produce an album the masses will devour! :rock: But, I hate any forum that will help any band/Artist to leapfrog over "Paying Their Dues!" :HEART: Many may have achieved greatness but shouldn't they have anyway? :bam: If you can't go "Platinum Out Of The Box", what are you doing here?
Bob Seger was an artist that was nurtured & developed before he went "Platinum" long after he released his 1st Lp.
AC w/o Ezrin & Shep would be a footnote in Frank Zappas Wikipedia under Straight Records artists.! :yawn:
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Re: Best engineered album?

Post by pitkin88 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:48 pm

Mr Bluelegs that is the best explanation I have read!

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Re: Best engineered album?

Post by Mr.Bluelegs » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:01 pm

pitkin88 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:48 pm
Mr Bluelegs that is the best explanation I have read!
Thanks. Glad it helped.

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Re: Best engineered album?

Post by Daggers & Contracts » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:04 pm

Mr.Bluelegs wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:01 pm
pitkin88 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:48 pm
Mr Bluelegs that is the best explanation I have read!
Thanks. Glad it helped.
I like your explanation myself. :clap:
I've been there setting up the mikes, especially on the drums etc. But, w/o the input of the Band,the engineer has very little direction except from his ears. I would hope that this is the point where the Producer steps in, (& knows all of the inputs available also!) 16 inputs were awesome when the ACG recorded Killer & School's Out! :smack:
24 track soundboards came a bit later.
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Re: Best engineered album?

Post by Saint&Sinner » Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:36 am

It's crazy isn't it. I record in a little practise room in my house and I have 16 channel inputs and get semi good sound quality/recordings. I think in the 80's my studio/practise room would have cost tens of thousands, and now I use it to tinker around in for fun! Love it.
Great explanation Mr.Bluelegs.
I find producer/engineer can meld quite easily as the direction the producer decides to go in can often influence the equipment and how its set up.
I love the whole process and find it fascinating. It's a shame you never get a "in the studio/making of" of any of alices albums. I love those things looking at the set ups, how they record things, choices they make etc.
Has alice ever done this?

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Re: Best engineered album?

Post by Mr.Bluelegs » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:57 am

Daggers & Contracts wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:04 pm
Mr.Bluelegs wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:01 pm
pitkin88 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:48 pm
Mr Bluelegs that is the best explanation I have read!
Thanks. Glad it helped.
I like your explanation myself. :clap:
I've been there setting up the mikes, especially on the drums etc. But, w/o the input of the Band,the engineer has very little direction except from his ears. I would hope that this is the point where the Producer steps in, (& knows all of the inputs available also!) 16 inputs were awesome when the ACG recorded Killer & School's Out! :smack:
24 track soundboards came a bit later.
Right, it helps if the band provides professional input. Takes away some of the added work for the engineer and producer. Look at Ezrin's brilliance with the ACG, taking raw talent and making them a tight band with inventive and great sounding albums.

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