Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream.

Anything Alice Cooper or AC band related goes here

Moderators: Si, Gorehound, SickThings, Devon, Shoesalesman

User avatar
Si
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 3395
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 5:47 am
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by Si » Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:22 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote: >There has been some evidence that a small handful of shows MAY have been recorded complete,

Which recordings are you referring to?
Mostly things of which short clips have surfaced. If there was more footage it's likely long gone. There's also that show that used video screens built into the venue (something very new at the time). There was a small chance that was recorded at the time but again is likely long gone if it was.
As I say.. *MAY*. we'll never know for sure. My point is in all likelyhood none of it exists any more.

A_MichaelUK
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 5373
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:35 pm

Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by A_MichaelUK » Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:46 pm

From Si:
"Mostly things of which short clips have surfaced. If there was more footage it's likely long gone."

Yes, so for example, the footage from 1972 from both The Academy Of Music and from Miami (all of which has been seen before, just as you refer) do not exist in full (with the footage from Montreal from 1972 probably being the most complete and that was released). There is about thirty minutes or so of footage from The Academy Of Music but it includes back - stage footage and interviews with fans, so doesn't contain a complete performance or even complete performances of individual songs (and even if it was or did, or even if the Miami footage was complete, they would be from the same tour as the Montreal show and then someone might complain that footage from the same tour is being released). I don't know who filmed The Academy Of Music show or why, as opposed to Miami which I think was filmed just to provide some footage to use to make the promotional film for "School's Out" (which just to confuse everyone even further, includes tiny snippets from The Academy Of Music and The Hollywood Bowl, as well). The budget would have been so small back then that I doubt that the whole Miami show was filmed although I think Warner Brothers did record at least most of the entire performance as shown by the bootleg which exists.

>There's also that show that used video screens built into the venue (something very new at the time). There was a small chance that was recorded at the time but again is likely long gone if it was.

I would bet that wasn't fed to a recorder but I'm not sure. Also, one of the shows from Brazil in 1974 was reportedly to be filmed or taped for a television broadcast but I don't know if that actually happened.

Toronto Bob
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 885
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 3:01 am
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by Toronto Bob » Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:48 pm

Ted Sallis wrote:
Toronto Bob wrote: Recent TB "Deluxe" set purchase

Zappa Halloween '77 (6 complete shows on a usb stick equivalent to 18 cd )
Rush A Farewell to Kings 40th Anniversary (complete 1978 show, 5.1 remix assorted videos on blu ray)

on pre-order:

Jethro Tull Heavy Horses 40th Anniversary (3cd+2dvd)
Zappa - Roxy complete (complete December 1973 Roxy run 7 cds)

these bands have done such a better job of preserving their history and offering fans quality archival releases.
I'm not familiar with the other titles you list above, but IMHO the Rush release (in addition to a previous Rush album Anniversary release, I believe) isn't good enough overall to convince me to buy it. Both the AFTK and previous release include several cover versions of Rush songs from the respective albums, which I definitely believe don't belong.

Fortunately the same doesn't exist on either The Life & Crimes... nor the Old School box set.

Ted
for me, a complete AFTK live show was the only thing that really mattered. Different Stages had a big chunk of the show but this is complete and I love it.

As a fan of certain artists/bands, I'm really not that demanding as it might appear to some on this board. A live recording of a complete or mostly complete show from each tour would be enough for me. Yet some like to overcomplicate things and not be forthright.

For all these ACG reissues on coloured wax, would it be that difficult to do what others have done?

- original mix
- 5.1 re-mix (I understand this would be pointless for PFY)
- include single versions/tv and radio ads/interview snippets from the time
- demos/outtakes
- live material

I've maintained that primarily due to a combination of Shep's business practices and his genuine disregard for the ACG music, this hodgepodge, incoherent and unsatisfactory re-issue of the ACG legacy exists. Doesn't make the guy evil, he just had a different agenda which has worked against building and maintaining a quality archival resource of ACG material. Not the end of the world, just wish it was different. I got plenty of other musical treasures to enjoy.

Rhino's B$D Deluxe for whatever shortcomings it may have had, is about as good as it got and none of the other original albums got anything close to that treatment.

But we've been over this so many times and it always is the same conversation ending with amuk getting defensive, and since he is the default expert here, what is the point of me or anyone else prattling on?

pitkin88
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 3485
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:25 am
Location: calif

Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by pitkin88 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:28 pm

I don't know if it is possible but it would be very helpful if you could see which threads a person started. I remember TB and I mainly going through a bunch of albums ( not just ACG ) giving ideas for bonus tracks.

School's Out: The single mix could be added as a bonus. Public Animal No 9 from Beat Club would be great too. I can't remember if there are any other live in the studio Beat Club for School's Out.

I do understand, as Amuk says there are monetary factors involved, but it is fun to dream.

User avatar
Si
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 3395
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 5:47 am
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by Si » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:46 pm

pitkin88 wrote:I don't know if it is possible but it would be very helpful if you could see which threads a person started.
Not exactly what you want, but if you go to your profile and click "search users posts" it gives you all your own (or anyone elses) posts. That narrows it down a little.

pitkin88
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 3485
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:25 am
Location: calif

Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by pitkin88 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:37 am

Si wrote:
pitkin88 wrote:I don't know if it is possible but it would be very helpful if you could see which threads a person started.
Not exactly what you want, but if you go to your profile and click "search users posts" it gives you all your own (or anyone elses) posts. That narrows it down a little.

Thank you I knew about this but i have A LOT of posts to sift through.

Bugger I found it!!

http://www.sickthingsuk.co.uk/forums/vi ... lit=deluxe

Ted Sallis
Billion Dollar Baby
Billion Dollar Baby
Posts: 277
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:43 pm

Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by Ted Sallis » Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:38 am

Toronto Bob wrote:for me, a complete AFTK live show was the only thing that really mattered. Different Stages had a big chunk of the show but this is complete and I love it.

As a fan of certain artists/bands, I'm really not that demanding as it might appear to some on this board. A live recording of a complete or mostly complete show from each tour would be enough for me. Yet some like to overcomplicate things and not be forthright.

For all these ACG reissues on coloured wax, would it be that difficult to do what others have done?

- original mix
- 5.1 re-mix (I understand this would be pointless for PFY)
- include single versions/tv and radio ads/interview snippets from the time
- demos/outtakes
- live material
Thanks for your detailed reply. It makes sense to me that a complete AFTK live show was the only thing that really mattered to you. Yes, Different Stages had a big chunk of the show; I have that release of the show myself.

Regarding ACG reissues, I would be content with the original mix, single versions, demos/outtakes and live material which still exists and the quality is good enough to merit inclusion. I can understand why you prefer the additional material you listed above.

Ted

Ted Sallis
Billion Dollar Baby
Billion Dollar Baby
Posts: 277
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:43 pm

Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by Ted Sallis » Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:50 am

A_MichaelUK wrote:From Si:

>There's also that show that used video screens built into the venue (something very new at the time). There was a small chance that was recorded at the time but again is likely long gone if it was.

I would bet that wasn't fed to a recorder but I'm not sure. Also, one of the shows from Brazil in 1974 was reportedly to be filmed or taped for a television broadcast but I don't know if that actually happened.
Si might be referring to a show from the BDB Holiday Tour in Dec.'73 that was described in Bob Greene's BDB book.

Regarding one of the shows from Brazil in 1974 reportedly to be filmed or taped for a television broadcast, I've seen a b&w photo elsewhere which shows Alice on stage at one of the South America shows from '74; in the lower left hand corner of the pic., someone is holding what appears to be a film camera pointed at Alice. Paul Brenton wondered out loud 'where's the footage?' (referring to the cameraman) in an accompanying caption.

Ted

Ted Sallis
Billion Dollar Baby
Billion Dollar Baby
Posts: 277
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:43 pm

Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by Ted Sallis » Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:58 am

A_MichaelUK wrote:From Ted Sallis:
"I have/have heard demos of quite a few ACG songs which have not yet been officially released, i.e. from LITD, Killer, SO and MOL."

Those would not be very different to those that appeared on "Old School", in that they would still be quite close to their final versions. There were a few recordings for "Billion Dollar Babies" that might have been interesting but the decision was made (not by me) that they didn't add anything (although I disagreed). The most interesting one was an instrumental version of "Billion Dollar Babies" which doesn't have the famous drumming going through it but a different pattern instead (if I remember correctly).
Thanks for your reply. I didn't know about that instrumental version of BDB but I'd always wondered since the Rhino/WB Deluxe edition of the BDB album came out why it only had 3 studio outtakes on it. Now I know why, and it's unfortunate that the decision was made not to include them.

Ted

mestreech
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 1245
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:36 pm
Location: holland

Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by mestreech » Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:25 am

pitkin88 wrote:
Si wrote:
pitkin88 wrote:I don't know if it is possible but it would be very helpful if you could see which threads a person started.
Not exactly what you want, but if you go to your profile and click "search users posts" it gives you all your own (or anyone elses) posts. That narrows it down a little.

Thank you I knew about this but i have A LOT of posts to sift through.

Bugger I found it!!

http://www.sickthingsuk.co.uk/forums/vi ... lit=deluxe
That was a KILLER topic.

mestreech
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 1245
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:36 pm
Location: holland

Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by mestreech » Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:28 am

Ok, so we already have a deluxe version of B$B but what are the other two upcoming (maybe) releases?
I swear School's out is one of them but that leaves just two albums and only one is considered for a deluxe version.
So Killer or Love it? We already have the Killer -St.Louis show so maybe Love it to..?

Ted Sallis
Billion Dollar Baby
Billion Dollar Baby
Posts: 277
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:43 pm

Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by Ted Sallis » Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:45 pm

mestreech wrote:...what are the other two upcoming (maybe) releases?
I swear School's out is one of them but that leaves just two albums and only one is considered for a deluxe version.
Technically that leaves 3 albums: Muscle of Love in addition to LITD and Killer, though I would agree that either of the latter 2 choices is considerably more likely a candidate than the former.

Ted

Ted Sallis
Billion Dollar Baby
Billion Dollar Baby
Posts: 277
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:43 pm

Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by Ted Sallis » Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:47 pm

mestreech wrote:
That was a KILLER topic.
I recall that topic and agree with mestreech.

Ted

A_MichaelUK
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 5373
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:35 pm

b

Post by A_MichaelUK » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:28 pm

From Toronto Bob:
>A live recording of a complete or mostly complete show from each tour would be enough for me.

Would there be much point as far as people like you and I are concerned, given that most of the best stuff available has been bootlegged though? It isn't that I disagree with you but if that stuff was released, some will complain that it's too familiar even though the mainstream buyers might consider it interesting.

>Yet some like to overcomplicate things and not be forthright.

I don't know what this means.

>For all these ACG reissues on coloured wax, would it be that difficult to do what others have done?

These are suggestions which are all valid and which, as you have been informed previously, should be put to Warner Music Group (as I have indirectly done). Also, some of your suggestions were already being considered but I don't know what their budget will or won't allow. I don't even know if they know what they are going to charge for any reissues and that's a pretty important thing to know before you start working on something.

>I've maintained that primarily due to a combination of Shep's business practices and his genuine disregard for the ACG music, this hodgepodge, incoherent and unsatisfactory re-issue of the ACG legacy exists.

As has been pointed out to you many times, you are constantly aiming at the wrong target.

>Doesn't make the guy evil, he just had a different agenda which has worked against building and maintaining a quality archival resource of ACG material.

You appear to not read things which have been pointed out many times, including things which Dennis has said in interviews. In 1972, nobody was thinking about a legacy. They were thinking about girls and beer.

>Rhino's B$D Deluxe for whatever shortcomings it may have had, is about as good as it got and none of the other original albums got anything close to that treatment.

They still might which is why this possible project was unofficially announced by Dennis in one of those interviews you might not have read.

>But we've been over this so many times and it always is the same conversation ending with amuk getting defensive,

No, I just set out the facts using logic and personal experience rather than prejudice and uninformed perception.

>and since he is the default expert here, what is the point of me or anyone else prattling on?

I welcome all comments that are made in good faith as I've stated many times and also you still don't realise that I often agree and completely understand your frustrations but don't share your interpretation of other people's motives or competence.

A_MichaelUK
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 5373
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:35 pm

Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by A_MichaelUK » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:30 pm

From pitkin88:
"School's Out: The single mix could be added as a bonus."

I think that's very possible.

>Public Animal No 9 from Beat Club would be great too.

I agree except it is owned by a different party though. Also, that was already released although I don't know if it is still available.

>I can't remember if there are any other live in the studio Beat Club for School's Out.

There are not.

A_MichaelUK
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 5373
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:35 pm

Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by A_MichaelUK » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:36 pm

From Ted Sallis:
"Si might be referring to a show from the BDB Holiday Tour in Dec.'73 that was described in Bob Greene's BDB book."

Yes, I know.

> Paul Brenton wondered out loud 'where's the footage?' (referring to the cameraman) in an accompanying caption.

I know the image you're referring to and I think that's a film camera the guy is holding and for some reason, I think the show to be televised (if it happened) might not have been shot on film.

A_MichaelUK
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 5373
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:35 pm

Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by A_MichaelUK » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:39 pm

From mestreech:
"So Killer or Love it? We already have the Killer -St.Louis show so maybe Love it to..?"

Obviously I can't tell you but you're a good detective and hopefully, there shortly will be an official announcement.

Babysquid
Billion Dollar Baby
Billion Dollar Baby
Posts: 348
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:13 am

Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by Babysquid » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:27 am

Out of interest, with all the coloured vinyl reissues being put out at the moment do these special editions stand a chance of getting the black wax treatment?

Devon
Goat Herder
Goat Herder
Posts: 463
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:02 pm

Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by Devon » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:56 am

No matter what, I hope it includes an audience recording of a show where audience members are screaming at each other to "Sit Down!"

User avatar
padre_sliprat
Billion Dollar Baby
Billion Dollar Baby
Posts: 440
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:40 pm

Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by padre_sliprat » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:28 am

I can't really add anything to this conversation, as fascinating as it is - so, I will wish you all a very Happy New Year. Maybe 2018 will be the year that a real gem gets unearthed. :drink:
You're a notch
and I'm a legend.

Post Reply