Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream.

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Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by mestreech » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:11 pm

padre_sliprat wrote:I can't really add anything to this conversation, as fascinating as it is - so, I will wish you all a very Happy New Year. Maybe 2018 will be the year that a real gem gets unearthed. :drink:
According to Dennis D. we will get the ACGsong/jam that was never released.

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Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by padre_sliprat » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:41 pm

mestreech wrote:
padre_sliprat wrote:I can't really add anything to this conversation, as fascinating as it is - so, I will wish you all a very Happy New Year. Maybe 2018 will be the year that a real gem gets unearthed. :drink:
According to Dennis D. we will get the ACGsong/jam that was never released.
Wonder when that was recorded?
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Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by A_MichaelUK » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:25 am

From padre_sliprat:
"Wonder when that was recorded?"

He is referring to "School's Back In" which I think was recorded in 1972 or 1973 but without meaning to burst any bubbles, I don't recall that song coming up in the discussion I recently had with the fellow in charge of the project.

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Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by padre_sliprat » Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:01 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:From padre_sliprat:
"Wonder when that was recorded?"

He is referring to "School's Back In" which I think was recorded in 1972 or 1973 but without meaning to burst any bubbles, I don't recall that song coming up in the discussion I recently had with the fellow in charge of the project.
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Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by Saint&Sinner » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:06 am

It would be nice to hear some of these reissues - but I don't have allot of interest in them tbh.
I would love the 5.1/lossless blu ray audio - that would be epic but highly doubtful given the choices made in the past concerning alice releases.

So what interests me is why leave off these tracks? The fans seem to know about them but they get left off - the example earlier was interesting, the billion dollar babies different versions. Who decided it didn't offer enough to people? I mean it doesn't take up any more plastic, the rights are already sorted due to other tracks being included so where is reasoning why to leave stuff off? I understand if it s a drunken mess of tuneless noise but given the level they were playing at after LITD and killer especially I doubt this would be the case.

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Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by mestreech » Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:06 am

A_MichaelUK wrote:From padre_sliprat:
"Wonder when that was recorded?"

He is referring to "School's Back In" which I think was recorded in 1972 or 1973 but without meaning to burst any bubbles, I don't recall that song coming up in the discussion I recently had with the fellow in charge of the project.
That would be very odd to leave such song out.
Why are they waiting as we are not getting younger. In fact us fans are THE best buyers of all formats. We are prepared to pay so give us something to buy.

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Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by padre_sliprat » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:10 am

Imagine all the fans who have passed on through the decades, deprived of so much stuff they never even knew about. It's almost criminal.
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Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:36 am

From Saint&Sinner:
So what interests me is why leave off these tracks?

Since there still seems to be some confusion, I repeat there are no finished and mixed recordings of unheard songs ready to be mastered and released. They are demonstration recordings mainly of songs we have already heard in their final versions as well as the two songs under discussion (one of which has already been released).

>The fans seem to know about them but they get left off - the example earlier was interesting, the billion dollar babies different versions. Who decided it didn't offer enough to people?

You would need to ask Warner Music Group and Bigger Picture Group that.

> I mean it doesn't take up any more plastic,

Who said anything about "plastic"? These recordings would have been for use on the reissue of "Billion Dollar Babies" or on "Old School", long after the age of "plastic".

> the rights are already sorted due to other tracks being included so where is reasoning why to leave stuff off?

That isn't how it works. All projects have a budget and if the budget isn't available beyond a certain point, then things can't be released.

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Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:40 am

From mestreech:
"That would be very odd to leave such song out."

That assumes it exists and I am not convinced it does. Maybe Dennis is sure that it does or maybe he has the only copy.

>Why are they waiting as we are not getting younger. In fact us fans are THE best buyers of all formats. We are prepared to pay so give us something to buy.

Most songs like this weren't worth finishing to begin with and if they were, they would have been finished and released. I doubt it is some kind of lost classic of the band's career.

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Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by padre_sliprat » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:48 pm

In my last comment, I was being facetious. As AMUK stated, if it was good enough for release, it would have been released to begin with.
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Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by Saint&Sinner » Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:44 am

I understand they are raw demos (I record music myself so I understand how rough and ready they can be) but I get frustrated that songs versions known to exist get ignored (maybe this is more pertinent to later releases of the 80s etc),
But I don't just mean new songs but as already discussed below:
There were a few recordings for "Billion Dollar Babies" that might have been interesting but the decision was made (not by me) that they didn't add anything (although I disagreed). The most interesting one was an instrumental version of "Billion Dollar Babies" which doesn't have the famous drumming going through it but a different pattern instead (if I remember correctly).
I know its not your call, I understand that, I'm just wondering who disagreed and was there reasons? For demo recordings or variations there of how does that break down in terms of cost? (again I understand they are will only pay a certain amount but for demos do the bands still expect to be paid?
Can you elucidate on some of the points?
again I am probably more interested in the later solo years than the early band material (I know they did so many albums in 4 years you can understand why not much is on the cutting room floor) it just seems alice doesn't ever get much in terms of reissues, mostly barebones (B$B aside) I don't get why

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Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by A_MichaelUK » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:25 am

From Saint&Sinner:
"I know its not your call, I understand that, I'm just wondering who disagreed and was there reasons?"

That was answered in my previous post.

>For demo recordings or variations there of how does that break down in terms of cost?

That depends on which project you're referring to. If you're referring to the reissue of "Billion Dollar Babies" in 2001, the more songs you want to mix and master, then obviously the more expensive it will be. It probably won't cost that much more but it depends on how much more work is involved. If you're referring to "Old School", then before you even consider the cost of additional mixing and mastering, you have to pay to have that material licensed to you in the first place from the owners (because "Old School" wasn't released by the owners) and that might prove to be too expensive as well.

>(again I understand they are will only pay a certain amount

It depends on the material.

>but for demos do the bands still expect to be paid?

Of course but there's the publishers as well.

>(I know they did so many albums in 4 years you can understand why not much is on the cutting room floor) it just seems alice doesn't ever get much in terms of reissues, mostly barebones (B$B aside)

You have answered your own question.

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Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by mestreech » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:40 am

How much copies of OLD SCHOOL were made/sold? I believe max. 5000?
And was that profitable ? I think so as it was a succes.
But how many copies of B$B deluxe were sold? And was that profitable?
I don't know the break-even point of a project , depends on the expenses and I know that Warner Brothers is NOT a leading company in reissues/boxes.
But there are plenty little companies who are leading in doing a proper reissue if they can license the music etc.
You can make a reissue as expensive as you want but there is always money to make.
If you look at the reissues of XTC they are EXCELLENT. Lots and lots of demo's/takes etc. and that for a price of a double cd so it is possible.
I would love to hear those demo's/different takes of B$B but I'm afraid I never will. Shame a big shame.

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Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by mestreech » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:42 am

And yes I'm a little frustrated on the wasted opportunity. :angry: :angry:

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Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by A_MichaelUK » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:55 pm

From mestreech:
"How much copies of OLD SCHOOL were made/sold? I believe max. 5000?"

Originally, yes but I understand it was eventually more than that.

>And was that profitable ?

I assume so but if there had been an unlimited budget, it might not have been.

>But how many copies of B$B deluxe were sold?

I don't know.

>And was that profitable?

I don't know.

>I would love to hear those demo's/different takes of B$B but I'm afraid I never will. Shame a big shame

I don't disagree but you know who is responsible and by the way, you are only frustrated because you haven't heard this material. As interesting as I think that material is, I doubt that you will think they are better than the finished versions. It isn't like there's a lost classic album or something. The best stuff (in this instance) has been released.

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Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by Dannorama » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:35 pm

Personally speaking, I am not very much interested in hearing all of the scraps from the studio floor. As Andy said, there is a reason that these have stayed in the box. I am much more interested in seeing the historical ephemera (lyrics jotted down on the nearest piece of paper, photos, promo items, etc.) I also hope for the 5.1 treatment, but that is understandably an outside chance. I would also love to have new things associated with these albums as well. Wouldn't it be great to wake up to coffee in a faithfully produced "School's Out" mug?
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Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by mestreech » Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:01 pm

Dannorama wrote:Personally speaking, I am not very much interested in hearing all of the scraps from the studio floor. As Andy said, there is a reason that these have stayed in the box. I am much more interested in seeing the historical ephemera (lyrics jotted down on the nearest piece of paper, photos, promo items, etc.) I also hope for the 5.1 treatment, but that is understandably an outside chance. I would also love to have new things associated with these albums as well. Wouldn't it be great to wake up to coffee in a faithfully produced "School's Out" mug?
I think that kind of stuff is already available.

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Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by mestreech » Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:09 pm

>I would love to hear those demo's/different takes of B$B but I'm afraid I never will. Shame a big shame

I don't disagree but you know who is responsible and by the way, you are only frustrated because you haven't heard this material. As interesting as I think that material is, I doubt that you will think they are better than the finished versions. It isn't like there's a lost classic album or something. The best stuff (in this instance) has been released.[/quote]

I know for sure there are no hidden gems in the archives but I just want to hear and have a copy of those tracks. And indeed it is my own fault that I'm not happy with that but I'm a fan that would buy EVERYTHING from the old group and a lot of the new.
I wish I won the lotto so I could license it myself and made it available for everybody. :bam:

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Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by Ted Sallis » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:43 pm

Dannorama wrote:I am much more interested in seeing the historical ephemera (lyrics jotted down on the nearest piece of paper, photos, promo items, etc.) I also hope for the 5.1 treatment, but that is understandably an outside chance. I would also love to have new things associated with these albums as well. Wouldn't it be great to wake up to coffee in a faithfully produced "School's Out" mug?
I for one have considerably less interest in historical ephemera than I would be in unreleased material (if there was more worthwhile to release). I also am not interested in a 5.1 release. As for new things associated with the albums such as a SO mug, I'll pass.

One thing that would have been very interesting is if the original version of the song BDB written by GB and R.Reggie that Dennis details in his book had been recorded. Dennis doesn't mention anything about it having been taped, so I assume it wasn't. And even if it was, it would have differed so much from the finished version (although RR retained a writing credit) I also doubt that it would have surfaced, same as the instrumental version of BDB that AM mentions above that was rejected for release.

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Re: Forthcoming expanded titles original group. Let us dream

Post by Rhapsody of Fire » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:12 am

Sometimes, unreleased material are find in post-mortem albums. I will wait for that.

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