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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:17 am 
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Billion Dollar Baby
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pitkin88 wrote:
I agree that Alice's voice should be left alone. The effect on Fireball works very well though and is used not to cover up any short givings but to give the song a sci fi feel.


Or a more psychedelic vibe


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:25 am 
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Quote:
I agree that Alice's voice should be left alone. The effect on Fireball works very well though and is used not to cover up any short givings but to give the song a sci fi feel.


Yes this was obviously a deliberate action that worked with the overall song. Even if it does sound like something of "tommy, tommy, tommy"


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:18 am 
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It may have been for that purpose. But it sounds like a smoothing effect to help blend the double tracked vocals. Whatever it is was added for doesn't change that it was noticeably added post-production when something could have been set-up to enhance the actual vocal performance to make the product more organic. Either way it detracts from the actual writing for me, and it cheapens the quality of the song like much of the chosen production techniques.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:34 am 
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Would that be bob ezrins fault? I get that he has applied whatever trick to get the "spacey effect" on the vocals, but I would hazard a guess the idea would likely come from the song writer/alice. Perhaps something along the line of:
"wouldn't it be awesome if it had this weird trippy/spacey vibe to the vocals? Bob can you do that ?"
" yes of course " (twiddles the old dials for a bit and boom.
I know when I have recorded stuff I/the players will do stuff like that all the time.
Who knows, it might have been bob who suggested it. But again it was an artistic choice rather than a production one I would say.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:41 am 
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We should all go into the studio with Alice next time and take over the console!










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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:01 am 
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guttertrash wrote:
It may have been for that purpose. But it sounds like a smoothing effect to help blend the double tracked vocals. Whatever it is was added for doesn't change that it was noticeably added post-production when something could have been set-up to enhance the actual vocal performance to make the product more organic. Either way it detracts from the actual writing for me, and it cheapens the quality of the song like much of the chosen production techniques.

No it doesn't! It was added as a deliberate effect to make it sound si-fi as in orson welles 'war of the worlds'. This works really well, the vocal effect suits the song as well as making it sound different from the other songs adding variety to the album. I'm very surprised by these comments about it being done to 'smooth the vocals', the same as people claiming 'I am made of you' was done as auto-tune when, again, it was obviously done as an effect!


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:19 pm 
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dadascot wrote:
I'm very surprised by these comments about it being done to 'smooth the vocals', the same as people claiming 'I am made of you' was done as auto-tune when, again, it was obviously done as an effect!


I don't think anyone has made such a claim in regard to this song.

And second, that effect is not "autotune".










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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:31 pm 
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Okay, I see guttertrash did say something about 'smoothing vocals'... I don't think the "spacey" effect we're discussing is the same. Probably multiple effects at work.

Either way, there is a general 'smooth' sound to more than a few of the tracks on the album that sounds somewhat un-Alice like which is what my initial comment was referring to. That could be attributed to autotune.

Autotune can be applied "lightly" to mask slight imperfections in the vocal or "heavier" to correct larger issues such as a vocal that's out of tune. Sometimes the results are more obvious than others but I think an artificial sound is evident regardless.

The effect on "I Am Made Of You" sounds like autotune being applied so much that it becomes an effect that is purposely apparent.










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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:56 pm 
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I'm getting quite tired of some of these comments trying to second guess why certain vocal sounds and techniques were used in the recording process. I happen to own and run a professional studio myself and a lot of these comments are nonsense.

Auto tune is used on everything now. Simple as that. Whether that be pop or rock or whatever. Criticising Ezrin for using it is ridiculous. It's an industry wide technique now, love it or hate it, human ears have been conditioned to prefer this sound.

The arrogance of someone thinking they know better than Ezrin astounds me.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:04 pm 
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While Heaven Wept wrote:
I happen to own and run a professional studio myself and a lot of these comments are nonsense.


Feel free to set us all straight then.

While Heaven Wept wrote:
Auto tune is used on everything now. Simple as that. Whether that be pop or rock or whatever.


It's used on *everything*? While I highly doubt that, I'm a fan of bands that I know wouldn't go near it with a stick. However, its use could be one of the reasons the entire music industry is in the toilet nowadays.

While Heaven Wept wrote:
human ears have been conditioned to prefer this sound.


I think you've been conditioned to not think.

While Heaven Wept wrote:
The arrogance of someone thinking they know better than Ezrin astounds me.


Yes, god forbid anyone question the all mighty, all knowing Bob Ezrin.










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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:00 pm 
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RemarkablyInsincere wrote:
While Heaven Wept wrote:
I happen to own and run a professional studio myself and a lot of these comments are nonsense.


Feel free to set us all straight then.

While Heaven Wept wrote:
Auto tune is used on everything now. Simple as that. Whether that be pop or rock or whatever.


It's used on *everything*? While I highly doubt that, I'm a fan of bands that I know wouldn't go near it with a stick. However, its use could be one of the reasons the entire music industry is in the toilet nowadays.

While Heaven Wept wrote:
human ears have been conditioned to prefer this sound.


I think you've been conditioned to not think.

While Heaven Wept wrote:
The arrogance of someone thinking they know better than Ezrin astounds me.


Yes, god forbid anyone question the all mighty, all knowing Bob Ezrin.


Time to stop reading this thread when there is such moronic comments!


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:51 pm 
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Billion Dollar Baby
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dadascot wrote:
RemarkablyInsincere wrote:
While Heaven Wept wrote:
I happen to own and run a professional studio myself and a lot of these comments are nonsense.


Feel free to set us all straight then.

While Heaven Wept wrote:
Auto tune is used on everything now. Simple as that. Whether that be pop or rock or whatever.


It's used on *everything*? While I highly doubt that, I'm a fan of bands that I know wouldn't go near it with a stick. However, its use could be one of the reasons the entire music industry is in the toilet nowadays.

While Heaven Wept wrote:
human ears have been conditioned to prefer this sound.


I think you've been conditioned to not think.

While Heaven Wept wrote:
The arrogance of someone thinking they know better than Ezrin astounds me.


Yes, god forbid anyone question the all mighty, all knowing Bob Ezrin.


Time to stop reading this thread when there is such moronic comments!


Please tell us what is moronic about this. Throwing a comment out with no further opinion for us to understand where you are coming from sounds like you are just unhappy about what was said. Pitch correction is a thing that is used often. It however is not a noticeable effect. Using effects to smooth the rasp or to autotune vocals is a separate thing. It uses different kinds of effects on the vocal to help mask and correct the vocals being put of tune. There is also a difference in singing completely out of tune or off pitch. Nonetheless, make real music. If you don't think it sounds good, sing it till it does if it is that bad to you, and let music be real again...let it be magical. Stop using click tracks and let the wonderful miracles of "mistakes" create real albums again. Whether you let a computer create the music or fix the "mistakes" or change the work by effects, it all comes out sounding like a computer did the brunt of the work. It is a major problem with music today, and why it doesn't connect with people as well.

"Honor your mistake as hidden intention" - Brian Eno


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:07 am 
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RemarkablyInsincere wrote:
dadascot wrote:
I'm very surprised by these comments about it being done to 'smooth the vocals', the same as people claiming 'I am made of you' was done as auto-tune when, again, it was obviously done as an effect!


I don't think anyone has made such a claim in regard to this song.

And second, that effect is not "autotune".



If i remember correctly that horrible effect on IAMOY was a Vocoder. A lot of people here thought it was auto tune initially. Either way, making Alice sound like some awful r & b singer was unforgivable. Someone should have nixed that idea.










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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:18 am 
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While Heaven Wept wrote:
I'm getting quite tired of some of these comments trying to second guess why certain vocal sounds and techniques were used in the recording process. I happen to own and run a professional studio myself and a lot of these comments are nonsense.

Auto tune is used on everything now. Simple as that. Whether that be pop or rock or whatever. Criticising Ezrin for using it is ridiculous. It's an industry wide technique now, love it or hate it, human ears have been conditioned to prefer this sound.

The arrogance of someone thinking they know better than Ezrin astounds me.


I'm with Remarkably on the Auto tune. Making that blanket statement is ridiculous as is the human ear thing. It's like saying people prefer the loudness. They don't its just what they are being served.










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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:21 am 
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dadascot wrote:
guttertrash wrote:
It may have been for that purpose. But it sounds like a smoothing effect to help blend the double tracked vocals. Whatever it is was added for doesn't change that it was noticeably added post-production when something could have been set-up to enhance the actual vocal performance to make the product more organic. Either way it detracts from the actual writing for me, and it cheapens the quality of the song like much of the chosen production techniques.

No it doesn't! It was added as a deliberate effect to make it sound si-fi as in orson welles 'war of the worlds'. This works really well, the vocal effect suits the song as well as making it sound different from the other songs adding variety to the album. I'm very surprised by these comments about it being done to 'smooth the vocals', the same as people claiming 'I am made of you' was done as auto-tune when, again, it was obviously done as an effect!



100% agree with you.










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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:32 am 
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pitkin88 wrote:
dadascot wrote:
No it doesn't! It was added as a deliberate effect to make it sound si-fi as in orson welles 'war of the worlds'. This works really well, the vocal effect suits the song as well as making it sound different from the other songs adding variety to the album. I'm very surprised by these comments about it being done to 'smooth the vocals', the same as people claiming 'I am made of you' was done as auto-tune when, again, it was obviously done as an effect!



100% agree with you.


This.










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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:55 am 
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pitkin88 wrote:
RemarkablyInsincere wrote:
dadascot wrote:
I'm very surprised by these comments about it being done to 'smooth the vocals', the same as people claiming 'I am made of you' was done as auto-tune when, again, it was obviously done as an effect!


I don't think anyone has made such a claim in regard to this song.

And second, that effect is not "autotune".



If i remember correctly that horrible effect on IAMOY was a Vocoder.

It was a "Square Wave" whatever that is. A Vocorder is the guitar/vocal thing that Joe Perry uses on 'Sweet Emotion' (as one example).


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:14 am 
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Dada God
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pitkin88 wrote:
While Heaven Wept wrote:
I'm getting quite tired of some of these comments trying to second guess why certain vocal sounds and techniques were used in the recording process. I happen to own and run a professional studio myself and a lot of these comments are nonsense.

Auto tune is used on everything now. Simple as that. Whether that be pop or rock or whatever. Criticising Ezrin for using it is ridiculous. It's an industry wide technique now, love it or hate it, human ears have been conditioned to prefer this sound.

The arrogance of someone thinking they know better than Ezrin astounds me.


I'm with Remarkably on the Auto tune. Making that blanket statement is ridiculous as is the human ear thing. It's like saying people prefer the loudness. They don't its just what they are being served.


Pitch correction is used by 99.9% of the music industry. This isn't me endorsing it, just stating a fact. As for my comment about the human ear being 'conditioned' to it.... again, not a personal preference but a fact (as you seem to have confirmed in your last line). I'm with you in that I would prefer this is not the case, but music production has suffered from this race to the bottom for years. Laying the blame at the feet of Ezrin is pointless.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:13 am 
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Si wrote:
pitkin88 wrote:
It was a "Square Wave" whatever that is. A Vocorder is the guitar/vocal thing that Joe Perry uses on 'Sweet Emotion' (as one example).


I believe you're talking about a "Talk box" which is also used famously by Peter Frampton. A Vocoder is a microphone that runs through a keyboard (Think Geoff Downes with Yes on "Tempus Fugit" or "Into the Lens" or that effect on "Do You Remember" on "In The Air, Tonight")


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:31 am 
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Devon wrote:
Si wrote:
pitkin88 wrote:
It was a "Square Wave" whatever that is. A Vocorder is the guitar/vocal thing that Joe Perry uses on 'Sweet Emotion' (as one example).


I believe you're talking about a "Talk box" which is also used famously by Peter Frampton. A Vocoder is a microphone that runs through a keyboard (Think Geoff Downes with Yes on "Tempus Fugit" or "Into the Lens" or that effect on "Do You Remember" on "In The Air, Tonight")


Maybe. I always thought they were the same basic device.

Looking it up (but not reading it all!) they do similar things. They both adapt the voice using an instrument.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk_box

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocoder#Uses_in_music


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