Bob Ezrin-Past, Present And Future

[Ted Sallis]

Many fans of Kiss left them with Destroyer while it gained them much popularity and introduced them to a wider audience with their softer image.

That's true and I can understand that even though I really like Destroyer largely due to the production. Another note is that when Double Platinum was being put together, many of the songs had to be remixed in order to bring them up to the quality of the Destroyer songs that were included on it, as Bob Ezrin's production was the benchmark against which the production of the non-BE songs on DP were judged.

Ted

[Ted Sallis]

Ezrin sucked a lot of the life out of Destroyer. That album really has no balls. That said the only time Kiss really got their sound down was the first live album.

Not a Floyd fan though you have to give him credit for the classic ABITW. That song will be played forever.

Although Destroyer is my favourite KISS studio album largely due to the production, LITD is my favourite of the 4 ACG albums that Bob produced even though it is the least elaborately produced of the 4.

The Wall is likely my 2nd favourite Pink Floyd album (after The Dark Side of the Moon) although Meddle is very high on my list too. And yes, Bob's production on The Wall is largely responsible for me rating that album so highly too.

Ted

[tuneylune]

Think he is a fantastic producer and even if I don't like some of the albums he produced (THE WALL, most of HOLLYWOOD VAMPIRES), they still sound good and that is really the producers main job.
Have seen other producers listed that I like such as Eddie Kramer and in best producers would also list George Martin, Jimmy Page, Jack Douglas , Jimmy Miller and Martin Birch to name a few.

[Shoesalesman]

If Ezrin plucks a pube, it would have more talent than I'd ever be able to harness in my lifetime. Nuff said.

[guttertrash]

Great producers know how to make an album sound it's best. They don't stifle it. Ezrin was good at epic productions with bombastic tendencies. The more familiar he became with producing, the more he added. Look at his career, every album he produced had more heavy-handedness. He didn't record Kiss, Alice, or Pink Floyd differently. Alice got slicker. Kiss was slick as hell. The Wall was over-the-top, but it worked for that album. He returned to Kiss for The Elder, and it was over-the-top and too much. A Momentary Lapse Of Reason suffered from too much, because Gilmour's writing was in a completely different direction than the epicness of Water's The Wall. In my opinion, Ezrin has never been able to approach bands in a way that fits their writing. He has always tried to make the band fit his approach that grew more and more slick with time. On LITD and Killer, he was still learning also. By Billion Dollar Babies, he was slick as hell, and every album after that has built more and more. That does not make angood producer. Rick Rubin is a great producer when it comes to understanding when a band/artist needs stripped down production or super slick. Sadly Rick's loud mixing style leaves a lot of distortion and clipping on things.

[mr.barlow]

Here is a link to the original version of Fireball:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h3Xdq6nKMQ


This is a prime example of why Ezrin was and still is so important to Alice Cooper.

Now just as in days of past it is his skill in arranging and in a lot of cases his help in writing (sometimes uncredited) the songs.

Just listen to the above link and the Alice version of the song. You tell me?

[padre_sliprat]

Just listen to Hello Hooray. The song belongs to the ACG because no one got it right previous to B$B.

[guttertrash]

You can't compare those two versions. The Rick Tedesco version was completely recorded by him, and it is more or less a demo. Probably
recorded in a home studio. Any full band and halfway decent producer could have arranged the song to be good, because it is written well. That performance is just not professional. I would love to Alice work with Nicke Andersson and Chip K over in Sweden, or if he stayed stateside, bring his band in and bang one out with somebody like Jack Endino.

[mr.barlow]

The thing is at 69 years of age, it seems Alice is very content working with Ezrin. I don't think he really cares about working with anyone else. He is at the point of his career where he is out to enjoy himself, with people he enjoys working with. It's all over this new album. You can hear the enthusiasm and more importantly the joy they had in doing it.

I don't think Alice is out to make a cutting edge album and jump on the hipster wagon at this point in his life. He does not need to be--or want to be-- "pushed", "tested", "prodded", "poked", "needled" when making an album. I would think if he went into production with any of those producers you named and they said "Alice--you can do better" his reply would be something akin to "And how long have you been doing this and how many records have you sold?" and "have the albums you've produced sold as many copies as the producer named Bob Ezrin?" Maybe then add something like "I'm pushing 70 years old, been in the business full time for 50 years and YOU are going to tell me what is good and what is bad?". I would go so far as to say that Alice would prefer making a bad album that he had fun making than making a great album and bending to the demands of some young hipster jerkoff.

You may not like Ezrin's production methods, but in the case of this new Alice album it seems most fans are thrilled with it.

You make mention that the Tedesco version is a demo? Well--it was released on his album which would lead me to believe it was a finished version. You also state that "any band with a halfway decent producer could have arranged the song to be good", well where are the examples? That's like saying any artist under the right instruction can paint like Dali. It's outright bullshit!

[guttertrash]

I said that it is more or less a demo. It is the typical sound of an "album" that one records by themselves in their bedroom or basement. It was self-released, and he recorded it all himself. Some people are great at that. Prince for instance, but it is noticeable that Tedesco is not Prince.

Yes, I am sure Alice is happy and pleased. If he is, good for him. He can record and release albums however he chooses. If people like it, great. Nonetheless, I have more faith in him than just some waning old rocker who doesn't want to be pushed. I'd like to see Alice the artist comeback.

And stop assuming that since the producer is young that they are a hipster. Jack Endino produced Bleach by Nirvana, the original Nevermind also, but the label wanted a version that was poppier. Endino has produced some stellar rock albums that are not grunge related. He is a musical beast who has been around since the mid-80s. Chips K is one of the most well-known rock producers in Sweden. They are producers that make real rock n' roll albums and not hipstsr indie rock uselessness. The biggest problem is that Alice and Ezrin are part of the machine that is the mainstream music business, so they will do as they do, but I can sit and wish for him to work with a great producer or a young, hungry producer like Ezrin was during those first three or four years.

[Si]

You can't compare those two versions. The Rick Tedesco version was completely recorded by him, and it is more or less a demo. Probably
recorded in a home studio.

It was recorded in Guitar Hanger Studios, which is Rick's fully equipped professional studio. It's actually a completed 'Dennis Dunaway Project' (DDP) track, recorded for their second album that was never released. It features the full DDP line up of Dennis Dunaway, Ed Burns and Russ Wilson, along with Rick.
So no, it wasn`t recorded (as in performed) completely by Rick, although he was the producer on the sessions, and it isn`t a demo. Do you have the CD or are you just listing to the YouTube video?

> Any full band and halfway decent producer could have arranged the song to be good,
>because it is written well. That performance is just not professional.

So Dennis's performance on the original track wasn`t profesional? hmm..

[guttertrash]

Pick and choose what I am saying. The recording sounds like the typical home studio style recordings you get from amateurs. Dennis plays fine, but Rick doesn't seem to know how to put an album together at all. Many great musicians have recorded on albums that sound like garbage, because the producer didn't know how to mix or get good tones. ACAS comes to mind. That was a complete horseshit album, and Alice sounds completely unrehearsed and off at times. Amazing how a bad producer or engineer can make a legend's performance sound bad. That is the producers fault. I bet Steve Lindsey and Rick Boston who produced Dirty Diamonds or Mudrock from Eyes would have made much better mixes.

[Dannorama]

Was there a reason why Kiss never worked again with Bob?

Yes. Ezrin turned them down. He has done 4 Kiss albums, by the way.

Just three: Destroyer (1976), Music from "The Elder" (1981), and Revenge (1992).

Hunter

Don't count out Destroyer Resurrected. Even though it was not an original album, it did involve studio work from Ezrin. They sold this as a new production, so it is worthy of being counted.

[Si]

Pick and choose what I am saying.

I quoted and replied to every word in your post that related to my reply. How was I picking and choosing? The only bit I left off was your reference to Alice and other producers that wasn`t pertinent.

The recording sounds like the typical home studio style recordings you get from amateurs. Dennis plays fine,

You said "That performance is just not professional.". That performance is Dennis Dunaway among others. Now you say Dennis' performance is fine (now you know it's Dennis) so it's just the other performances are "not professional"?

but Rick doesn't seem to know how to put an *album* together at all.

So you DO have the album. Okay, well the credits are on the sleeve so surely you already knew everything I wrote.

Many great musicians have recorded on albums that sound like garbage, because the producer didn't know how to mix or get good tones. ACAS comes to mind. That was a complete horseshit album, and Alice at times sounds completely unrehearsed and off at times. That is the producers fault. I bet Steve Lindsey and Rick Boston who produced Dirty Diamonds or Mudrock from Eyes would have made much better mixes.

I have no argument with any of that. I agree the bass is a little muddy on Rick's album, but overall it sounds just fine to me. It's a good album.

[guttertrash]

I was not referring to who was performkng, but the engineering (sorry for saying recording) and yes, it sounds like it came from a bedroom. Digital production is an amazing thing. You can make $100 electric drums sound like a DW kit if you have the right software and patience to tweak things how you want, or you can just record it and make it sound amateur as can be if you don't have the proper ear for it. Rick isn't good at it. The DDP stuff did nothing for me nor did Tedesco's album.

[Saint&Sinner]

Genius.

Here, here.

The thing is allot of people like to shift the blame for a bad album at the producers feet but grab all the accolades for a great album as proof the artist is a genius.

The truth (as always) is a 3 edged blade and it sits somewhere in the middle of both these reactions.
Bob ezrin does what it says on the tin. Professional, great sounding production with allot of depth. Managing to meld disparate instruments yet produce a clarity rarely seen (especially in the early 70's)
He tends to have a hand in writing (which is another stick to beat him with) but he will write in the direction the relevant band is heading in.
Even on a "bad" bob ezrin album like "....music from the elder" the production did exactly what kiss wanted it to be, clean, precise and bombastic (basically unlike any kiss album before it)
in terms of sonics, Bob doesn't make odd musical choices (like excessive hand clapping, or soulless guitar tones - we are looking at you ACAS)
Welcome 2 my nightmare was a master class in production. Clean, precise, energetic and emotive. Fresh and modern when it called for it and classic old school when it didn't.
Paranormal is another slice of production gold. strong clear sounding tracks (even while pulling out the fuzz box guitar tones)it has a punch and energy not unlike flush the fashion and that classic 70s sound that alice was so clamouring for.

[Daggers & Contracts]

You can't compare those two versions. The Rick Tedesco version was completely recorded by him, and it is more or less a demo. Probably
recorded in a home studio.

It was recorded in Guitar Hanger Studios, which is Rick's fully equipped professional studio. It's actually a completed 'Dennis Dunaway Project' (DDP) track, recorded for their second album that was never released. It features the full DDP line up of Dennis Dunaway, Ed Burns and Russ Wilson, along with Rick.
So no, it wasn`t recorded (as in performed) completely by Rick, although he was the producer on the sessions, and it isn`t a demo. Do you have the CD or are you just listing to the YouTube video?

> Any full band and halfway decent producer could have arranged the song to be good,
>because it is written well. That performance is just not professional.

So Dennis's performance on the original track wasn`t profesional? hmm..

Thanks Si, After listening to Ricks' version I felt it had less impact but still a fine tune. That's when I asked myself "How did AC & Erzin find this song?" Google didn't provide much. I should have scrolled a little more before digging. Thanks for the info!

[pitkin88]

Here is a link to the original version of Fireball:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h3Xdq6nKMQ


This is a prime example of why Ezrin was and still is so important to Alice Cooper.

Now just as in days of past it is his skill in arranging and in a lot of cases his help in writing (sometimes uncredited) the songs.

Just listen to the above link and the Alice version of the song. You tell me?

We really don't know if Ezrin decided to speed things up or not. It could easily have been Alice or Dennis.

[Saint&Sinner]

Just three: Destroyer (1976), Music from "The Elder" (1981), and Revenge (1992).

Also not counting creatures of the night, destroyer and revenge are two of the best sounding albums kiss ever did. Revenge is top 3 album (including creatures of the night and lick it up)

[guttertrash]

Why does clean and clear translate as great production to people? A major part of what made albums so amazing up to the mid 70s was the bleed of instruments into the mics of surrounding instruments. Muddy is an issue, because you get Pretties For You, but bleed is one of the things that has been lost in the age of massively overdubbing things and especially the digital age, and instruments are very vibrant and clear, but the ambience is lost and instead a soulless, sterile sound fills the void.

It worked for Pink Floyd and The Cars. But a band like Queen's sound after their first couple albums are way two sterile and overdone for me. It is also why Destroyer and Billion Dollar Babies are not my favorite Kiss and Alice Cooper albums. They aren't bad, but the shift is noticeable and not nearly as gnarly as what came before them.