ACG Nashville reunion

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mr.barlow

Re: ACG Nashville reunion

Post by mr.barlow » Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:42 am

I'm pretty sure that's what the conclusion was at the time and instead they came to some sort of settlement agreement. I would imagine that it was an agreement that was renegotiated over the years as the first original contract/agreement would have been only for a set period of time.

Also, usually in this type of agreement, some or all may ask for advances or outright buy-outs of their interests for various reasons.

Alice and Shep may have bought them out (all or in part) over the years or they could still be getting a negotiated percentage. Either way, I'm sure it's all confidential and we will never know.

I am quite certain, however, that all members benefited by Alice's continued success.
Also, I'm sure they are benefiting from the current arrangement.

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Re: ACG Nashville reunion

Post by pitkin88 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:14 am

Daggers & Contracts wrote:
pitkin88 wrote:
LoveItToDeath82 wrote:I would be happy to see it happen, but I feel like the logistics for an ACG tour would be a nightmare. I think this would have happened already if there was a promoter willing to put up money to make it happen, so without that, you have to assume that any possible tour would come out of pocket. Very few fans would be happy with a show that does not have theatrics involved, so you'd have to have a crew on the same level as Alice has now, and it would be unfair for Alice and Shep to front all the money if the band were to split everything evenly. So could it be possible that (an)other member(s) is not open to taking the time or possibly not willing to take the chance with their money? They all have their own daily lives, so I'm sure it is not a simple situation for somebody who hasn't been on such a tour to arrange, fund and go on the road for a month or two with no guarantee of a reward from it.

Jesus. He could use the same crew and they could do theatrics. How hard is that? At the very worst the attendance would be the same as his regular tours. Shep and Alice took the goddamn brand and ran with it so don't talk to me about fair. The band could have shut them down and halted everything if they had wanted to after split.
And halt income for an "Out Of Work" musician?
However low (or High) the percentage was when it did arrive. To shut A.C. & Shep "down" would have taken top notch lawyers who don't work cheap. Pro Bono anyone? :teach: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


Not getting a lawyer was a huge financial mistake for the band. They lost the brand.

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Re: ACG Nashville reunion

Post by pitkin88 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:19 am

mr.barlow wrote:I'm pretty sure that's what the conclusion was at the time and instead they came to some sort of settlement agreement. I would imagine that it was an agreement that was renegotiated over the years as the first original contract/agreement would have been only for a set period of time.

Also, usually in this type of agreement, some or all may ask for advances or outright buy-outs of their interests for various reasons.

Alice and Shep may have bought them out (all or in part) over the years or they could still be getting a negotiated percentage. Either way, I'm sure it's all confidential and we will never know.

I am quite certain, however, that all members benefited by Alice's continued success.
Also, I'm sure they are benefiting from the current arrangement.
My arse they benefitted from the continued success. They lost the name and everything they had worked for. I assure you Bob D is hardly rolling in the dough from Glen's band income. They went from being CEO's to janitors of the same company.

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Re: ACG Nashville reunion

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:52 am

From guttertrash:
"To me, it makes sense that Shep would not be happy with taking a cut of a mere 20% split when Alice as a solo member gets a much heftier share.

I am not aware that the other band members have their own representation. If anyone knows, do let us know. As a matter of fact, Shep still handles the affairs of anything relating to the original band, so that original post from this mysterious person was wrong about that as well.

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Re: ACG Nashville reunion

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:54 am

From pitkin88:
"That could be just heresay too."

Well, my information comes from the individuals concerned and others who handle those details.

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Re: ACG Nashville reunion

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:07 am

From pitkin88:
"My arse they benefitted from the continued success."

Maybe mr.barlow meant from the record sales and publishing since Alice was still promoting the band's material over the years on tour. From the middle of the seventies until the end of the nineties (which includes the golden age of the compact disc), those albums by the band were still selling hundreds of thousands of copies a year all over the world and the fact that Alice was still in the public eye surely helped. Obviously, that income would have been reduced with the introduction of downloading (both legal and otherwise) and streaming but I think mr.barlow is referring to the period when everyone seem to be selling substantial quantities of albums.

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Re: ACG Nashville reunion

Post by mr.barlow » Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:32 pm

If Alice's career had ended in 1983 after Dada, the name Alice Cooper would be nothing more than a trivia question today.

Does anyone think that if Alice crashed and burned in 1983 that the former band members would have fared better in royalties from sales, etc?

Also, it's unfortunate that the way things ended with the original band, but it has to be remembered that it is Alice who has worked basically non-stop from 1975 until today to keep "the brand" alive and flourishing.

I also have read comments from the other members over the years that are very happy that Alice has continued to succeed as it adds to their bank accounts each year.

Also, when it comes to Glen, I would think that the royalties paid to Bob and Glen's estate are less than the others as Glen was only a credited songwriter on about one-quarter of the songs written from LITD to MOL. Also, he would not receive performance royalties for B$B or MOL as GB did not play on those albums.

At any rate--maybe some of the former band members or their reps could comment on this to get it straight from those involved.

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Re: ACG Nashville reunion

Post by RemarkablyInsincere » Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:32 pm

mr.barlow wrote:If Alice's career had ended in 1983 after Dada, the name Alice Cooper would be nothing more than a trivia question today.
This is an absurd statement.

There have been a slew of bands who have broken up and are STILL a part of the public consciousness. Led Zeppelin, The Beatles, The Doors, Jimmy Hendrix and on and on and on.

There's also the standard romanticism that occurs whenever an artist does break up or stop touring. They're often elevated to some sort of mythical status. Yes, that often involves a death, but it happens in other instances too.

If Alice walked away in 1983, some of the stuff that's viewed as "schlock" wouldn't have occurred and his stature actually might be viewed quite differently (i.e. better) nowadays.

Not that I'm wishing for this as I quite like the various eras.
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Re: ACG Nashville reunion

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:50 pm

From RemarkablyInsincere:
"There have been a slew of bands who have broken up and are STILL a part of the public consciousness. Led Zeppelin, The Beatles, The Doors, Jimmy Hendrix and on and on and on.

Those artists were much, much bigger than Alice was by the time he went on his haitus though.

>If Alice walked away in 1983, some of the stuff that's viewed as "schlock" wouldn't have occurred and his stature actually might be viewed quite differently (i.e. better) nowadays.

I take your point but that term was being used to refer to him as early as 1973 (by "Time" for example).

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Re: ACG Nashville reunion

Post by mr.barlow » Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:27 pm

RemarkablyInsincere wrote:
mr.barlow wrote:If Alice's career had ended in 1983 after Dada, the name Alice Cooper would be nothing more than a trivia question today.
This is an absurd statement.

There have been a slew of bands who have broken up and are STILL a part of the public consciousness. Led Zeppelin, The Beatles, The Doors, Jimmy Hendrix and on and on and on.

There's also the standard romanticism that occurs whenever an artist does break up or stop touring. They're often elevated to some sort of mythical status. Yes, that often involves a death, but it happens in other instances too.

If Alice walked away in 1983, some of the stuff that's viewed as "schlock" wouldn't have occurred and his stature actually might be viewed quite differently (i.e. better) nowadays.

Not that I'm wishing for this as I quite like the various eras.
I'm not sure if you remember but by 1983 Alice was considered a washed-up has been. After the WB contract ran it's course no one wanted to touch him.

There was nothing at all that would warrant "romanticism" to envelope Alice should he have quit in 1983. The fact that there was an original band was lost to the general public, the classic character was gone, and Alice was bouncing around looking for a new identity. He lost the goodwill of a lot of his fanbase. Had he not resurrected his career in 1986 (with the schlock--and the classic character), Alice Cooper would be a forgotten relic of the 1970s.

All of the bands you mentioned went out at the top of their game, with most due to tragic circumstances. Also, The Beatles were The Beatles. There is not one band that can ever be compared to them. Alice on the otherhand was on a downward spiral, abandoned by a good portion of his fans, nearly forgotten by the public and at the lowest point of his career. To be honest, he was basically a trivia question by 1983.

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Re: ACG Nashville reunion

Post by RemarkablyInsincere » Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:14 pm

mr.barlow wrote: I'm not sure if you remember but by 1983 Alice was considered a washed-up has been. After the WB contract ran it's course no one wanted to touch him.

There was nothing at all that would warrant "romanticism" to envelope Alice should he have quit in 1983. The fact that there was an original band was lost to the general public, the classic character was gone, and Alice was bouncing around looking for a new identity. He lost the goodwill of a lot of his fanbase. Had he not resurrected his career in 1986 (with the schlock--and the classic character), Alice Cooper would be a forgotten relic of the 1970s.
You're not getting it. The romanticism doesn't set in immediately. People don't remember the bad years, they remember the good ones. And eventually the romanticism occurs. Look at KISS, by 1979/80 the make-up had pretty much run it's course, the band splintered. Then by 1996, the excitment at their reformation was huge and they had the biggest tour of the year.

Sure, things were at a low point during that time for Alice, but as they say, absence makes the heart grow fonder. If he'd gone on a long term hiatus, the legend would have eventually recovered and grew.. and there would have been demand eventually.

Even beyond all that though, it's simply laughable to say Alice Cooper would have been a trivia question. You're simply not giving him or the original band enough credit. The influence on popular culture alone was huge and there's a slew of hits that continue to get played everyday on classic rock radio all across the country / world.

This isn't the Bay City Fricken Rollers were talking about. Get real.
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Re: ACG Nashville reunion

Post by Toronto Bob » Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:18 pm

Hard to argue with that Mr. Barlow. As someone who was a huge fan in 1983, I can tell you who weren't there - Alice Cooper was considered washed up.

I'm glad he made a comeback got sober and straightened out himself. I really wish he could have taken the lead on patching up whatever needed to be patched up but what can you do? I'm thinking this time seems like it may actually be possible for a short reunion tour - we'll see.

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Re: ACG Nashville reunion

Post by mr.barlow » Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:17 pm

I climbed on board the Alice train in late 1980. I was familiar with the hits like School's Out and Eighteen and the look of the classic character. However, I came to love Alice in the SF era and those hits and the character had no impact on my like and perception of Alice. I loved the SF music and the SF character (it's still my fave incarnation).

Now, with all that being said, I became aware--very fast---that I was one of the few. Also, I realized that Alice was considered washed up. There was hardly a mention of him from 1981-1984 in any mainstream publications. I remember Hit Parader had an issue with an article on Zipper and I was beyond excited. Alice used to be in every magazine, every month for a few years--then by 1981 he was lucky to get a two line blurb in the local Penny Pincher.

To be honest-- became so addicted to all-things Alice that it was those years that I educated and familiarized myself with the golden era of Alice by doing research at the library, and ordering countless back issues of magazines. All of which I still have and are the backbone of my Alice media collection.

Most fans who came on board after 1985 have no idea how far Alice had fallen in such a quick amount of time. In those years there was only one place to get updates and news and that was from Andy Michael and his ACA.

We are now fortunate enough to have the internet and a forum on which we can now fight with each other over nonsense. Hey that's what it was created for! :)

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Re: ACG Nashville reunion

Post by NotSoPerfect » Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:01 pm

RemarkablyInsincere wrote:
mr.barlow wrote: I'm not sure if you remember but by 1983 Alice was considered a washed-up has been. After the WB contract ran it's course no one wanted to touch him.

There was nothing at all that would warrant "romanticism" to envelope Alice should he have quit in 1983. The fact that there was an original band was lost to the general public, the classic character was gone, and Alice was bouncing around looking for a new identity. He lost the goodwill of a lot of his fanbase. Had he not resurrected his career in 1986 (with the schlock--and the classic character), Alice Cooper would be a forgotten relic of the 1970s.
You're not getting it. The romanticism doesn't set in immediately. People don't remember the bad years, they remember the good ones. And eventually the romanticism occurs. Look at KISS, by 1979/80 the make-up had pretty much run it's course, the band splintered. Then by 1996, the excitment at their reformation was huge and they had the biggest tour of the year.

Sure, things were at a low point during that time for Alice, but as they say, absence makes the heart grow fonder. If he'd gone on a long term hiatus, the legend would have eventually recovered and grew.. and there would have been demand eventually.

Even beyond all that though, it's simply laughable to say Alice Cooper would have been a trivia question. You're simply not giving him or the original band enough credit. The influence on popular culture alone was huge and there's a slew of hits that continue to get played everyday on classic rock radio all across the country / world.

This isn't the Bay City Fricken Rollers were talking about. Get real.

My reaction to a lot of your statements is that you're making assumptions. (as is the statement about being a trivia question by 1983.) Given that an extra 30 years of reality altering events have happened, no one knows.

But, ask the average teenager who Zeppelin or the Doors are, and they've heard of them. Ask the average teenager who Alice Cooper is? No. Clue.

I honestly do believe Alice touring solo has done a lot of help the name/music stay relevant. If it were all the band's efforts in the 70s that was keeping the name afloat, a lot more people would realize that Alice Cooper was a band than currently do.
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Re: ACG Nashville reunion

Post by RemarkablyInsincere » Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:12 pm

NotSoPerfect wrote:
RemarkablyInsincere wrote:
mr.barlow wrote: I'm not sure if you remember but by 1983 Alice was considered a washed-up has been. After the WB contract ran it's course no one wanted to touch him.

There was nothing at all that would warrant "romanticism" to envelope Alice should he have quit in 1983. The fact that there was an original band was lost to the general public, the classic character was gone, and Alice was bouncing around looking for a new identity. He lost the goodwill of a lot of his fanbase. Had he not resurrected his career in 1986 (with the schlock--and the classic character), Alice Cooper would be a forgotten relic of the 1970s.
You're not getting it. The romanticism doesn't set in immediately. People don't remember the bad years, they remember the good ones. And eventually the romanticism occurs. Look at KISS, by 1979/80 the make-up had pretty much run it's course, the band splintered. Then by 1996, the excitment at their reformation was huge and they had the biggest tour of the year.

Sure, things were at a low point during that time for Alice, but as they say, absence makes the heart grow fonder. If he'd gone on a long term hiatus, the legend would have eventually recovered and grew.. and there would have been demand eventually.

Even beyond all that though, it's simply laughable to say Alice Cooper would have been a trivia question. You're simply not giving him or the original band enough credit. The influence on popular culture alone was huge and there's a slew of hits that continue to get played everyday on classic rock radio all across the country / world.

This isn't the Bay City Fricken Rollers were talking about. Get real.
My reaction to a lot of your statements is that you're making assumptions. (as is the statement about being a trivia question by 1983.) Given that an extra 30 years of reality altering events have happened, no one knows.

But, ask the average teenager who Zeppelin or the Doors are, and they've heard of them. Ask the average teenager who Alice Cooper is? No. Clue.
There's quite a large gulf between being a "trivia question" and being on the lips of the average teenager. But I'm not sure you're understanding my point. I'm not debating solo Alice vs ACG.

There are lots of bands with nowhere near the impact and influence of Alice Cooper, that haven't been relegated to "trivia question" status.

It really was another case of Barlow's over-the-top comments.
NotSoPerfect wrote: I honestly do believe Alice touring solo has done a lot of help the name/music stay relevant. If it were all the band's efforts in the 70s that was keeping the name afloat, a lot more people would realize that Alice Cooper was a band than currently do.
That's actually kinda silly, because when they play a song on the radio, they call it Alice Cooper. They don't say "here's that band of 5 guys called Alice Cooper" or "here's that solo artist Alice Cooper." So it really isn't a good barometer. Whether it's old or new songs, really has little to do with the public's perception of whether it was ever a band or not.

Yet, if we're going to go solely on popularity of material, the ACG 71-74 material wins in a landslide.

But again, this wasn't even the argument I was trying to make.
Last edited by RemarkablyInsincere on Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ACG Nashville reunion

Post by NotSoPerfect » Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:19 pm

RemarkablyInsincere wrote:
I'm not debating solo Alice vs ACG.
Neither was I.

I referenced Alice solo as what was happening after 1983, as a possible reason to keep the name out of "trivia" status.
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Re: ACG Nashville reunion

Post by mr.barlow » Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:13 am

It took 6 years to get to the top, he treaded water briefly, then started to sink fast. By 1983 he was underwater and forgotten.

In all honesty, by 1983, he was known as "the guy" who sang that "School's Out" song by the general record buying public. It was all forgotten and no one really cared.

It has taken the non-stop work of the last 31 years to cement his place as a music legend.

If it ended in 1983, no one outside of his hardcore fans would have cared, and in case you didn't notice most of those abandoned him by then too.

You can still see the divide right here on this forum. A lot of the older fans wanted nothing to with him around the time of Lace & Whiskey.

Alice rebuilt his career appealing to a whole new generation, something he needed to do as the previous one could care less about him.

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Re: ACG Nashville reunion

Post by Daggers & Contracts » Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:32 am

mr.barlow wrote: It has taken the non-stop work of the last 31 years to cement his place as a music legend.

If it ended in 1983, no one outside of his hardcore fans would have cared, and in case you didn't notice most of those abandoned him by then too.
By now unless there was a seismic shift for all that was '70's. All we would hear on commercial radio (or even T.V. commercials) would be "School's Out" at Summer break & "Elected" during an election year. I call that a trivia question... "Who recorded these popular song's in the early '70's?"
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Re: ACG Nashville reunion

Post by RemarkablyInsincere » Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:13 am

mr.barlow wrote:It took 6 years to get to the top, he treaded water briefly, then started to sink fast. By 1983 he was underwater and forgotten.

In all honesty, by 1983, he was known as "the guy" who sang that "School's Out" song by the general record buying public. It was all forgotten and no one really cared.

It has taken the non-stop work of the last 31 years to cement his place as a music legend.

If it ended in 1983, no one outside of his hardcore fans would have cared, and in case you didn't notice most of those abandoned him by then too.

You can still see the divide right here on this forum. A lot of the older fans wanted nothing to with him around the time of Lace & Whiskey.

Alice rebuilt his career appealing to a whole new generation, something he needed to do as the previous one could care less about him.
Repeating the same thing over and over doesn't make it true.

By your logic, the set list should be comprised mostly of post-83 material.
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Re: ACG Nashville reunion

Post by Ted Sallis » Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:59 pm

mr.barlow wrote:It took 6 years to get to the top, he treaded water briefly, then started to sink fast. By 1983 he was underwater and forgotten.
To dissect and thereby clarify the above statement: if it took 6 years to get to the top and 'the top' was in 1973, 1967 would have been the year in which the climb to the top started. Accurate enough.

'If he treaded water briefly' was the WTMN and Goes to Hell period, I agree.

'Then started to sink fast. By 1983 he was underwater and forgotten.' I completely agree with the first part but to be fair, Alice was in rehab for awhile around 1977 - '78 so obviously wasn't musically active then. As for the latter part, I don't think Alice was quite that irrelevant by then but pretty close where his current music at the time was concerned. But he wasn't quite forgotten.

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