New album update

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Re: New album update

Post by guttertrash » Sat May 13, 2017 10:11 pm

Amuk, I honestly don't see how you can see I Love The Dead and Sick Things as being cut from the same cloth as IBYFO. The production, the music, the lyrics, and the performance of those songs all gave a darkness to those songs among much of the early catalog that is not seen at all in the latter day songs. There was extremely clever satire, wit, and black humor elements in the early works where as IBYFO is silly and schlocky. It doesn't carry the same weight. As I said earlier, I see it in the difference between A Nightmare On Elm Street or even something more comical as Army Of Darkness versus the Scary Movie franchise or something else that parodies the horror genre but doesn't make it scary in anyway. There are a ton of b-rated zombie movies that aren't even trying to be scary, but are just comedic parodies of the zombie concept. This is the difference being pointed out by everybody who is critical of the newer stuff.

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Re: New album update

Post by RemarkablyInsincere » Sat May 13, 2017 10:45 pm

The song title "Cold Ethyl" is so ingenious because it's ambiguous... it's not until you understand the subject matter that you realize the true genius of it.

It wouldn't have been nearly as effective if it were titled "Dead Ethyl".
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Re: New album update

Post by RemarkablyInsincere » Sat May 13, 2017 10:49 pm

guttertrash wrote:Amuk, I honestly don't see how you can see I Love The Dead and Sick Things as being cut from the same cloth as IBYFO.
I actually feel that "I Love The Dead" might have been the first instance of Alice overstepping into obvious territory with the title. Lyrically, it's some great stuff. While I dig the tune live, I've never been crazy about the title for some of the same reasons. It's easy to overlook this because it came from an all-time classic album, though.
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Re: New album update

Post by Lucius Morthem » Sun May 14, 2017 2:56 am

I think W2MN has worse problems that IBYFO, lyrically is not that bad... I thought it too be pretty funny (and dark taking into account what happened with that guy in drugs)

W2MN greatest problem IMO is that Alice (himself said it) wanted a Nightmare for the chaaracter.... and a Nightmare for him nowadays were things like Horreundous effects over I Am Made of You, Choosing Kesha to play the Devil... Rob Zombie taking part instead of someone as Alan Rickman to replace Vincent Price (Alice's words), taking a great ballad (pre-nominated for a Grammy) and give it the most stupid and ridiculous backstory for the press.

He could've avoided all that and still play with humour.

DiscoBloodbath is a great song that recalls the Disco era thing (which was already address by Alice.... and half rockstars in the 70's) and then changes abruptally with a solo from John5.. That's a great way to end a song

The same thing with Caffeine, It is funny, yet not ridiculous

He can do both, and I really really really hope he plays it that way on the new album....

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Re: New album update

Post by guttertrash » Sun May 14, 2017 3:49 am

Lucius Morthem wrote:I think W2MN has worse problems that IBYFO, lyrically is not that bad... I thought it too be pretty funny (and dark taking into account what happened with that guy in drugs)

W2MN greatest problem IMO is that Alice (himself said it) wanted a Nightmare for the chaaracter.... and a Nightmare for him nowadays were things like Horreundous effects over I Am Made of You, Choosing Kesha to play the Devil... Rob Zombie taking part instead of someone as Alan Rickman to replace Vincent Price (Alice's words), taking a great ballad (pre-nominated for a Grammy) and give it the most stupid and ridiculous backstory for the press.

He could've avoided all that and still play with humour.

DiscoBloodbath is a great song that recalls the Disco era thing (which was already address by Alice.... and half rockstars in the 70's) and then changes abruptally with a solo from John5.. That's a great way to end a song

The same thing with Caffeine, It is funny, yet not ridiculous

He can do both, and I really really really hope he plays it that way on the new album....
Taken on it's on, I'll Bite Your Face Off about falling in love with a female zombie. As a part of the album, it is most likely referring to the devil character. As I stated in my previous post, it is just standard comedic fare on a b-rated horror concept. It's bewildering to me that it can make somebody think of a bath salt attack incident.

Disco Bloodbath Boogie Fever is the most cringeworthy thing he ever did in my opinion. The modern pop music and rapping is horrendous. I get where they wanted to go, but Alice has no reason to try to cop current trends for any reason. It has been said he isn't going to be on the radio, so stick to what you know and do well. That song missed the mark so bad, it is like a sniper was hired to shoot a foreign leader and somehow killed his own leader instead. With the guest stars that graced the album, he should have brought in a rapper to do the song with some actual real modern pop worthy writing and production.

Caffeine is an absolutely enjoyable song to me. Why more songs like that couldn't have been written and a turn to the darker side like with Under My Bed was nixed for the dumbest nightmare ever, I will never understand.

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Re: New album update

Post by I'm Pain » Sun May 14, 2017 3:57 am

The song I Love the Dead is one of the reasons Alice is held in high regards as a songwriter, and lyricist. It's just perfect on so many levels - as stated above. I'll Bite Your face Off is not even in the same league as far as the depth of the lyrics are concerned. If you're going make a comparison of sorts to show satire - you don't want to put IBYFO up against I Love the Dead. I'll bite Your Face Off is kind of like having Weird Al fronting the Rolling Stones - it's got that feel. I Love the Dead is a gothic masterpiece which gives you the chills as it builds to a dramatic climax. IBYFO is more in league (humor) with Feed My Frankenstein, or You Make Me Wanna. Nothing wrong with that - it's just a lower grade of humor, and silly lyrics attatched to an otherwise pretty rocking tune. Gets the job done I guess, but I miss the old Coop. I hope there's more of his artistic side on his new album. I'm looking forward to it..

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Re: New album update

Post by pitkin88 » Sun May 14, 2017 4:40 am

Probably the worst example of Alice's lyrics ruining brilliant music has to be The Saga Of Jesse Jane. There was so much atmosphere in that piece it was a shame it went waste.

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Re: New album update

Post by guttertrash » Sun May 14, 2017 7:25 am

pitkin88 wrote:Probably the worst example of Alice's lyrics ruining brilliant music has to be The Saga Of Jesse Jane. There was so much atmosphere in that piece it was a shame it went waste.
Agree 100% on this!

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Re: New album update

Post by RemarkablyInsincere » Sun May 14, 2017 7:26 am

guttertrash wrote:Caffeine is an absolutely enjoyable song to me. Why more songs like that couldn't have been written and a turn to the darker side like with Under My Bed was nixed for the dumbest nightmare ever, I will never understand.
"Caffeine" is the other great song on the album... and since it's title isn't silly and juvenile, I feel this should have been lead off single.
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Re: New album update

Post by RemarkablyInsincere » Sun May 14, 2017 7:29 am

I'm Pain wrote:The song I Love the Dead is one of the reasons Alice is held in high regards as a songwriter, and lyricist. It's just perfect on so many levels - as stated above. I'll Bite Your face Off is not even in the same league as far as the depth of the lyrics are concerned. If you're going make a comparison of sorts to show satire - you don't want to put IBYFO up against I Love the Dead. I'll bite Your Face Off is kind of like having Weird Al fronting the Rolling Stones - it's got that feel. I Love the Dead is a gothic masterpiece which gives you the chills as it builds to a dramatic climax. IBYFO is more in league (humor) with Feed My Frankenstein, or You Make Me Wanna. Nothing wrong with that - it's just a lower grade of humor, and silly lyrics attatched to an otherwise pretty rocking tune. Gets the job done I guess, but I miss the old Coop. I hope there's more of his artistic side on his new album. I'm looking forward to it..
Don't get me wrong, I think ILTD is a very good song... but I feel the title is a bit too blatant. I think Alice is at his best when there's a bit of ambiguity involved.

Wasn't it controversial within the band or am I remembering it wrong?
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Re: New album update

Post by Devon » Sun May 14, 2017 8:27 am

I'm curious about the album cover myself. A lot of potential with the album title. I wish I was designing it, I have one in mind right now!!!

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Re: New album update

Post by Saint&Sinner » Sun May 14, 2017 11:49 am

From RemarkablyInsincere:
"Yes and no. "I'll Bite Your Face Off" is a prime example of a completely fabulous song undermined by juvenility."

I will take something great and stupid over something that's garbage and mature or serious.
I am in full agreement, nothing wrong with fun "stupid" lyrics if the tune rocks and is fun. I never liked "bite your face off" - the lyrics didnt even factor into my dislike, i just think its a very boring stones rip off that brings down an otherwise great album.

Its all down to taste, if you dont like alices silly songs, thats fine but dont pretend this is a new thing. The ACG wasnt above some stupid rock and roll fun either, why pretend they were?
I am concerned for the new album as it sounds like the eyes/diamonds part 2, i liked half of eyes and even less of diamonds so that is why im slightly reserved in my hopes, but i really am excited to the point that me and my mates are already gonna book the release date for a listening party!

I am also not getting the bob ezrin hate going around. W2MN was a sonically great album (as well as a great album musically), perfectly mixed with everything clear and carrying the needed weight and heft, just like he did in the old days. i admit HV was a misstep, but the fuzzy production was by design to capture that old garage sound.

Lets not jump the gun and get all worked up over song titles, it isn't long till release. Lets just be excited for a little longer :)

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Re: New album update

Post by A_MichaelUK » Sun May 14, 2017 11:59 am

From guttertrash:
"Amuk, I honestly don't see how you can see I Love The Dead and Sick Things as being cut from the same cloth as IBYFO. The production, the music, the lyrics, and the performance of those songs all gave a darkness to those songs among much of the early catalog that is not seen at all in the latter day songs."

That would be because you didn't read closely enough to what I was referring to which was the comment that "It's just so over the top silly compared to thought provoking titles like "Only Women Bleed", "Dead Babies" or even "Under My Wheels"." I didn't state anything about "The production, the music, the lyrics, and the performance of those songs."

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Re: New album update

Post by A_MichaelUK » Sun May 14, 2017 12:03 pm

From guttertrash:
"Taken on it's on, I'll Bite Your Face Off about falling in love with a female zombie."

Actually, she's a vampire.

>Disco Bloodbath Boogie Fever is the most cringeworthy thing he ever did in my opinion. The modern pop music and rapping is horrendous. I get where they wanted to go, but Alice has no reason to try to cop current trends for any reason.

You have TOTALLY missed the point on this and I'm sure this was discussed when the album was released. He wasn't trying to "cop current trends". The song was a parody on hip - hop and rap culture in the same way that "You Gotta Dance Was".

>With the guest stars that graced the album, he should have brought in a rapper to do the song with some actual real modern pop worthy writing and production.

I am amazed at the distance by which you missed the point of the song and why it was on the album. I guess mr.barlow was right.

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Re: New album update

Post by guttertrash » Sun May 14, 2017 12:11 pm

I know quite a few people who missed the point then, and maybe if it takes some esoteric message to explain the point, the humor wasn't properly conveyed.

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Re: New album update

Post by A_MichaelUK » Sun May 14, 2017 12:12 pm

From I'm Pain:
"If you're going make a comparison of sorts to show satire - you don't want to put IBYFO up against I Love the Dead."

Who is doing that? This is starting to get silly. All I've ever stated was that you can't judge a song just by a title.

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Re: New album update

Post by A_MichaelUK » Sun May 14, 2017 12:21 pm

From guttertrash:
"I know quite a few people who missed the point then"

So did most people, even when Alice and the band were at their peak, commercially.

>and maybe if it takes some esoteric message to explain the point, the humor wasn't properly conveyed.

So having complained about dumb lyrics, do you want things to dumbed - down even further to make them less "esoteric"? If you don't get all the jokes and references, it doesn't make you less of a fan, so I wouldn't worry.

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Re: New album update

Post by guttertrash » Sun May 14, 2017 12:21 pm

I feel like that sums up the complaint by many people. This kind of humor falls flat to even a good portion of people on this forum. There is a great amount of other fans who do not come on here who ask "what the hell was he thinking?" Should they all have to watch a video synopsis to get the point? If the joke falls flat to much of the audience, it was delivered wrong, and this is what it people are complaining about. The humor does not measure up the way it once did.

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Re: New album update

Post by guttertrash » Sun May 14, 2017 12:34 pm

guttertrash wrote:I feel like that sums up the complaint by many people. This kind of humor falls flat to even a good portion of people on this forum. There is a great amount of other fans who do not come on here who ask "what the hell was he thinking?" Should they all have to watch a video synopsis to get the point? If the joke falls flat to much of the audience, it was delivered wrong, and this is what it people are complaining about. The humor does not measure up the way it once did.

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Re: New album update

Post by guttertrash » Sun May 14, 2017 12:35 pm

I feel like that sums up the complaint by many people. This kind of humor falls flat to even a good portion of people on this forum. There is a great amount of other fans who do not come on here who ask "what the hell was he thinking?" Should they all have to watch a video synopsis to get the point? If the joke falls flat to much of the audience, it was delivered wrong, and this is what it people are complaining about. The humor does not measure up the way it once did.

People don't want dumbed down. They want the humor to hit the mark, and the dumbing it down to schlock is when they started missing the mark.

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