Mar Y Sol 1972 album

[Toronto Bob]

From Toronto Bob:
"He condescends,"

I agree. Is that the same as being a "troll" though?

- it certainly is

"he is didactic,"

If that means I don't like muddled thinking and am into intellectual rigour, then I agree.

- it doesn't mean that - open a dictionary

> and he only posts to shoot others down.

If that means, I prefer to establish and clarify the facts, then I agree.

- no it doesn't mean that, you often tear down people for their preferences and opinions, and sure, debating and offering up opinion is what public forums are all about, you use your aforementioned tone to turn a perfectly good thread into a pissing match

>He has never (or so rarely it may as well be never) started a thread of his own,

Why should I? Most people here haven't either. It isn't a condition of membership.

- of course it's not a condition of membership, what it demonstrates is your unwillingness to contribute anything positive, you just lay low in the weeds waiting to pounce on those who's posts you you feel need correcting.

> gave the community a heads up to anything,

Why should I? Is it my job to do so? What makes you think I am authorised to give out information which is under an embargo? What makes you think you are entitled "to anything"?

- it's not your job to do anything here, but it would be refreshing for you just to post something worthwhile and informative without the condescending tone

> asked for opinions.

Why do I need to ask "for opionions" when all are free to give their "opinions"?!

because it's what humans do, we talk, we listen, we demonstrate to people that we're interested in what they think. It's a nice back and forth, you should try it sometime

I>t's all just this authoritarian POV, sitting in his sniper's perch ready to "correct" everyone.

Are you saying falsehoods should not be corrected?

- not saying that at all, just that people expressing opinions and preferences don't need correction

> I've caught him a few times fibbing in order to bolster his argument

You have made that claim before but never gave examples.

Actually I have, but you have conveniently forgotten

> and then uses his status as insider to shut conversations down.

If you mean I use logic and facts as combination to destroy your sense of self - entitlement and false premises, then that's true.

- No don't mean that at all. I mean when I and others have taken issue with an AC product, you shut things down by suggesting how little control Alice and Shep have in their back catalog. Well I don't know how much input they have but when I say something like TLACOAC took too long to be released and ultimately failed in content because it only offered 2 discs worth of unreleased material, that doesn't need to be corrected.

[Si]

This bickering has gone around and around for years now an you're just saying the same things again. Can we just get over it and talk about the subject rather than other posters?
If you don`t like how someone posts, ignore them and move on.

[del]

Well said Si.

This site benefits from having contributors who are hardcore time served and dedicated fans. Unfortunately it also suffers from what sometimes feels like a contest to be the best fan ie the one with the real facts, the one who has the most insight and right to be heard etc.

I have got good insight and opinions from all of you in the past but this is what turns folk off. It's playground stuff. Please stop or take it private somewhere and let us all enjoy your positive contributions in the future as each of you adds value, but not this way.

[mr.barlow]

From Toronto Bob:
"Yea I am critical but I would challenge anyone to point out any of my criticisms that aren't accurate.

It is all here in the archives of this site.

>Not trolling just want quality archival product."

You have repeatedly been asked to make suggestions (for about the last five years or so), yet you fail to. Why is that? If you genuinely are acting in good faith and have good intentions, then do it. At no point in any of these discussions have you ever been constructive. Instead, you start with a false premise and simply don't like being challenged even though you provide no basis for your weird opinions. For a while, you met the challenge and behaved like a normal human being but that didn't last long which was sort of predictable. So again, provide specific examples of what you would like to see releaased and we can have a reasonable debate about it. Maybe you can start a thread on the subject.

>The fact of the matter is that Amuk is the troll, some of you just can't/won't see that.

I have known Si since 1997 having first met in 1986 so you should ask him if I am "the troll". Also, I have been part of the Alice Cooper fan community right across the world, which I helped create, since 1983 and there are at least two other people here who I have known since then also. I don't doubt I have my detractors, but those are my credentials. Tell us what your credentials are.

Many of the younger fans on this forum have to realize that there was a time (1981-1985) when it was near impossible to get any info on Alice.

There was one guy who made it available to the fans through The ACA Newsletter---Andy Michael! It was through a small ad in Kerrang magazine that this teenager in the USA started a nearly life-long friendship with Amuk. It was Andy and his ACA newsletter that helped turn me into a hardcore fan.

The information and photos (although rather crude by today's standards) were a treasure trove to any Alice fan. I still have all of them packed away somewhere in storage and they are a prized part of my Alice collection.

I know that throughout the years Amuk was always very forthcoming to me with any information he was able to disclose about any given project. He was also very helpful in answering any and all questions about the history of the band and Alice. I learned quite a bit about Alice (band and solo) from Amuk.

It has to be understood that although Amuk may have inside information/recordings/promo tidbits etc, it does not mean he can always share them. I think there are a lot of people on this site who have no clue about the politics, marketing tactics and you name it that is involved with any release or project. It's an extremely calculated affair and usually there is a precise timing to every single little aspect of the rollout. And most importantly--anyone who leaks or releases any materials is subject to legal litigation if they are caught. Rememeber it's a business--a BIG business. If some saw what actually goes on in the real world of business Alice as opposed to the character ALice--it would ruin the magic for them. It's all about hype and illusion. It's like that for every band, artist and celebrity. Also, in the case of Shep who runs a very tight ship----loyalty is everything--and loyalty includes keeping one's mouth shut.

I'm not saying that no one should disagree with Amuk or even have a go at him from time to time--but there is no way that ANYONE can say that Amuk has not done his part on part of the fans. I know many fans who were very well treated by Amuk. I personally know people who were members of Alice's band who to this day speak fondly of Amuk. In fact, ALL of them marvel at Amuk's devotion to all-things Alice and for compiling and archiving the history of Alice Cooper.

Like him or not--Amuk is a valuable asset to the world of Alice Cooper both to Alice & Co and to the fans.

[pitkin88]

Mr Barlow that was 30 odd years ago. He is not the same person now. Once he got too close to the flame he went over to the dark side.

ps I could think of four people who might question that Shep loyalty bit.

[pitkin88]

From Si:
"As it is, it's an unauthorised copy, probably of an old cassette, of a recording I'm already familiar with."

From what I understand, it's from a better source than that.

So what is the source then or will Shep smite you down if you dare tell?

[pitkin88]

From pitkin88:
"Here us the company putting out the CD. Easy Action:Cooper fans?"

The activities of this company have been known about for a long time and from what I understand, it is the same person who released the "Battle Axe" bootleg which Neal Smith was unhappy about. Go to http://www.sickthingsuk.co.uk/content.p ... tleaxe.php and scroll down to the end to see Neal's statement. Maybe pitkin88 and Toronto Bob can go and have a go at Neal for not being happy with that release. After all, anyone who doesn't like bootleggers who profit from the work of others has got to be the confronted.

Neal and Michael have patched things up since then. If you want I will send Neal a few bob as I, gasp, bought this.

[Daggers & Contracts]

Well said Si.

This site benefits from having contributors who are hardcore time served and dedicated fans. Unfortunately it also suffers from what sometimes feels like a contest to be the best fan ie the one with the real facts, the one who has the most insight and right to be heard etc.

I have got good insight and opinions from all of you in the past but this is what turns folk off. It's playground stuff. Please stop or take it private somewhere and let us all enjoy your positive contributions in the future as each of you adds value, but not this way.

Thanks del,
I tried to PM one of the afore mentioned & then it was copied & pasted so watch out!

[pitkin88]

Well said Si.

This site benefits from having contributors who are hardcore time served and dedicated fans. Unfortunately it also suffers from what sometimes feels like a contest to be the best fan ie the one with the real facts, the one who has the most insight and right to be heard etc.

I have got good insight and opinions from all of you in the past but this is what turns folk off. It's playground stuff. Please stop or take it private somewhere and let us all enjoy your positive contributions in the future as each of you adds value, but not this way.

Thanks del,
I tried to PM one of the afore mentioned & then it was copied & pasted so watch out!

Still crying about being outed?

[Toronto Bob]

This bickering has gone around and around for years now an you're just saying the same things again. Can we just get over it and talk about the subject rather than other posters?
If you don`t like how someone posts, ignore them and move on.

Does that go for Amuk too or just does Mr. Last Word get a pass? Just wonderin'

[concolz]

Can we just get over it and talk about the subject rather than other posters? If you don`t like how someone posts, ignore them and move on.

Does that go for Amuk too or just does Mr. Last Word get a pass? Just wonderin'

From the STs membership rules: This board does NOT allow personal attacks. So, don't allow it; without exception.

[del]

Agree Concolz.

I may not be a real hardcore fan like a few of you here but I have been a devoted follower since 72. Whether it's 45 years or 4.5 years of following ACG or AC this is a forum for chat, information sharing and ....enjoying. The bickering undermines that and simply comes across as siblings publicly fighting for position. My kids would have had their iPhones confiscated by now. Sure I can just ignore it but the point is that it shouldn't be there in the first place.

In the not too distant future it will be 50 years since we were graced with the first appearance of PFY. I sincerely hope somebody somewhere is already planning some sort of major release or event that is truly fan inclusive. Personally, I would love to see you guys come together and grace us with a stunningly insightful and heartfelt contribution which is published as part of the package. It could be a real demonstration of the strength and continuity of support that has been there over many years. As it is I can see individual submissions, each of which are laced with some of the undercurrents we see here. That would be a crying shame.

Folks, there is a decreasing number of us out there now. Let's try and enjoy what's still to come as much as we can and contribute positively to the helping ensure that ACG/AC get their rightful place in history. There is still plenty to do on that front.

Christ, I sound like my dad...

[A_MichaelUK]

From mr.barlow:
"Also, in the case of Shep who runs a very tight ship----loyalty is everything--and loyalty includes keeping one's mouth shut."

It isn't even about that but more that a lot of it isn't any of my business which is why I don't discuss a lot of the things I know.

[A_MichaelUK]

From pitkin88:
"Mr Barlow that was 30 odd years ago. He is not the same person now."

You left Britain around 1988 without warning which was your prerogative. You did not keep in touch with at least two of your former friends for a reason, which if true, I cannot repeat, but that was your perogative as well. From the time you left Britain to the time you and I made contact again on this site (around 2010 or so), you and I had no contact. Therefore, you have no idea (as usual) if I am "not the same person now" and by the way, I am not the one who used a fake name to join this site. We can make this personal if you want, in which case you can contact me privately, or you can continue to cause unnecessary trouble or you can take the instruction that Si gave yesterday seriously.

>Once he got too close to the flame he went over to the dark side.

Only someone genuinely uninformed can make that statement.

[A_MichaelUK]

From pitkin88:
"So what is the source then"

From what I understand, this was made from the original tape (which was created for a proposed live album in 1972 consisting of performances from the artists which performed at that event).

>or will Shep smite you down if you dare tell?

This another example of your ignorance.

[A_MichaelUK]

From pitkin88:
"Neal and Michael have patched things up since then."

Who said things need to be fixed?

>If you want I will send Neal a few bob as I, gasp, bought this.

That would be your and his business.

[A_MichaelUK]

From Toronto Bob:
"Does that go for Amuk too or just does Mr. Last Word get a pass? Just wonderin'"

It applies to everyone, as you know, although again, you don't seem to be acting in good faith as your "Mr. Last Word" reference shows.

[A_MichaelUK]

From del:
"I may not be a real hardcore fan like a few of you here but I have been a devoted follower since 72."

That sounds pretty "hardcore" to me so you shouldn't do yourself a disservice.

>Whether it's 45 years or 4.5 years of following ACG or AC this is a forum for chat, information sharing and ....enjoying. The bickering undermines that and simply comes across as siblings publicly fighting for position.

I agree with everything in your post but at the expense of being accused of wanting the "Last Word", people need to understand that in my case, my conscience is clear because while some people may be forgetful or have selective memories, I have the archives of this site which explain and justify every response I have ever given which (and here's the really important part) is a direct response to someone else's statement. That is why (unless the facts change), I stand by every statement I have ever made. On that basis, people can decide for themselves who is acting in good faith, who has a severe case of envy and who is here just to cause problems just because they enjoy it. I have no problem with anyone wanting to reply to this and I won't (unlike others) accuse anyone of wanting the "Last Word", but if anyone wants to continue to try and be provocative and not show any good faith, then I will continue to react if, when and how I choose within the rules of this site. All of this is a shame because all of this has been stated more than once already.

[Ted Sallis]

The activities of this company have been known about for a long time and from what I understand, it is the same person who released the "Battle Axe" bootleg which Neal Smith was unhappy about. Go to http://www.sickthingsuk.co.uk/content.p ... tleaxe.php and scroll down to the end to see Neal's statement. Maybe pitkin88 and Toronto Bob can go and have a go at Neal for not being happy with that release. After all, anyone who doesn't like bootleggers who profit from the work of others has got to be the confronted.

The 3CD set Complete Battle Axe was released by a now defunct U.K. company, New Millennium Records in 2001. To follow up AMUK's response regarding 'Neal and Michael having patched things up since then', I've never seen any evidence myself that there was ever a breakdown in their relationship.

Ted

[pitkin88]

From pitkin88:
"Mr Barlow that was 30 odd years ago. He is not the same person now."

You left Britain around 1988 without warning which was your prerogative. You did not keep in touch with at least two of your former friends for a reason, which if true, I cannot repeat, but that was your perogative as well. From the time you left Britain to the time you and I made contact again on this site (around 2010 or so), you and I had no contact. Therefore, you have no idea (as usual) if I am "not the same person now" and by the way, I am not the one who used a fake name to join this site. We can make this personal if you want, in which case you can contact me privately, or you can continue to cause unnecessary trouble or you can take the instruction that Si gave yesterday seriously.

>Once he got too close to the flame he went over to the dark side.

Only someone genuinely uninformed can make that statement.

I'm beginning to think you have a secret dossier on me!! I emigrated in 93 for the record. Sorry for not letting you know that was bad of me and I should have consulted you before getting married.

I give you permission to say who the former friends are and what the reason was. I'm dying to know as I have no idea. End the speculation now or its FAKE NEWS!!

I know you are not the same person since 2010 then ok?

I have no intention of engaging you via pm ok la?

It was not a fake name it was a real one. It just wasn't mine.

Si is a big boy he can contact me if he wants. I actially thought Si was instructing you. Not sure why you keep harrassing the ref to get me sent off when I haven't even commited a bookable offense. Sad really.