Mar Y Sol 1972 album

[A_MichaelUK]

From pitkin88:
This is the sort of thing that probably shows there is a market fot it.

I don't disagree but it is shrinking for the all the reasons we have previously discussed.

> It sounds like sour grapes again to be honest.

Well to be equally sincere, you're wrong.

> WB and Alice Cooper have had years to release stuff. Why they have chose not to is financial folly especially during the CD boom era.

I don't disagee but that is a question only Warner Brothers can answer and yes, it's a vicious circle because if there is no official release, people will seek out an unofficial release which makes an official release less likely. When that happends the only people who suffer are the owners of the material (not just the labels but the artists and composers as well). Besides, it isn't as if nobody had ever had the idea of releasing unreleased material. It just never happened for whatever reason Warner Brothers came up with (although the expanded version of "Billion Dollar Babies" would be an exception).

[A_MichaelUK]

From Toronto Bob:
That makes no sense, conventional wisdom says the more official releases made available, the less market share unofficial releases can claim.

As is often the case, you're missing the point. The point is that I'm referring to when a bootleg is released before the legitimate version.

>So what is the statement "(and no, I'm not stating that in relation to this specific recording)" seems that he is saying that."

No. I am basing it on my own experiences with people who work for different record companies in relation to different artists and how they have to make a decision on whether to spend the resources to release material which has already been unofficially released when they were originally planning an official release. I wasn't referring to this specific recording but if you insist on making it relevant to Alice Cooper, I can tell you as I probably have done before, that based on my own experiences with the box - set, the "Classic Rock" magazine 'fan pack' and the documentary that licensing material of any kind (not just audio recordings) is becoming more and more expensive for this precise reason and yes, there was a project a while back which didn't happen because someone pulled out due to limited profit margins (and no, I'm not at liberty to reveal what that was). The more expensive it becomes, the harder it is to make a profit and therefore the less likelihood of getting something released. It is demoralising to work on a project, make significant investments in time and money and then discover a bootlegger released the material before the legitimate owners or licencees could. That might not fit in the way you see the world from the comfort of your broadband connection, but it is the reality these people actually in the industry have to deal with.

>Regardless, not having a proper archive or the rights to release anything is on Shep.

This beyond ridiculous. Anyone who wants to know why can check the archives of this site.

>But since they have no control - those rereleases that DD mentioned should have nothing to do with hapless AC and Shep so this unauthorized release will have exactly zero effect on any WB archival release.

That is fine in which case, go and complain to them then. Do post their reply here for us to look at.

> Likely Amuk is just having a sad that any ACG recording is being released - he seems to hate that for some unknown reason.

What a shame you have decided to no longer post in good faith as you had implicitly agreed to do. If that is the case, why did I work on the box - set then? Why did I and other collectors make our collections available when it was being put together? Why did I spend over a hundred hours working for free on that? Why have I tried to get other material released only to be rebuffed?

>If he hates bootlegs so much

You have a bad memory. Show me where I said that.

>he only has to look to his hero Shep for the blame. Hey maybe it's a bit of karma, after all Shep and Joe were earning $ off of bootlegs in the early days - right?

Trust me, the irony is not lost on me, but that was hardly a comparable situation.

[A_MichaelUK]

From pitkin88:
"Well they could do something that the bootleggers ( or grey area ) can't do and that is add liner notes, recollections, commentary from the band, stats, photos etc."

I agree but that is probably only going to appeal to the extreme hard - core collectors though. The mainstream consumer may think he or she doesn't need to buy the official release as he or she has already bought the unofficial version. In fact, Ringo Starr said something similar when some previously unreleased material by The Beatles was eventually officially released. He was maybe just trying to be 'cool' but he claimed he didn't near to hear the official release as he already had an unnoficial version.

[Dannorama]

From Andy: ...there was a project a while back which didn't happen because someone pulled out due to limited profit margins (and no, I'm not at liberty to reveal what that was). The more expensive it becomes, the harder it is to make a profit and therefore the less likelihood of getting something released. It is demoralising to work on a project, make significant investments in time and money and then discover a bootlegger released the material before the legitimate owners or licencees could.

That was my initial (fearful?) reaction when I saw this pop up. I wonder what kind of an impact this makes on the upcoming re-releases of the band's albums? I am not big on bootlegs to begin with, so I can easily overlook the need to have something like this. (I greatly prefer an official release.) But, the concern is real that we are not getting more/better/deeper releases because the bootleg market has already put that fire out.
On that principal alone, I will not be getting this - even though it is from my favorite era of the band.

[A_MichaelUK]

From Dannorama:
"That was my initial (fearful?) reaction when I saw this pop up. I wonder what kind of an impact this makes on the upcoming re-releases of the band's albums?"

This particular release is limited to only five hundred copies I believe, so my guess is that it won't have that much of an effect but at the same time, that isn't really the point.

[Toronto Bob]

See what I meant pitkin when I commented in the other thread about the reissues DD mentioned. "Hope this gets released without the usual BS" this is just the start. If WB really wants to release a quality interesting reissue series, they'e going to need to cut out the usual "helpers". The lack of forthright people in the AC camp has screwed things up and is further tamping down an already shrinking fan base. and may even purchase this unoffical version

KInd of reminds me of the Zappa archival material, although different because a lot of material was being released, but Gail the gatekeeper, was doing her damnedest to alienate the fan base with unnecessary delays and c**tiness. Amazing now that she's gone, how new releases are flowing out of the vault - without delays.

This Mar Y Sol show (which I already have) I would still have purchased as an official release and may buy this unofficial version but could have been made available. Hey why not do a "Beat the Bootleggers" series?. No Shep has better plans - do nothing for years, have minions bitch about unofficial product, then have said minions compile an unsatisfying collection of material. Yea - brilliant, way to make something that should be a joy to discuss, collect, consume, into a pissy, crappy affair. I think Shep has turned his marketing game from "pissing off the parents" to pissing on the fans.

[pitkin88]

Who knows what his point is. Maybe we should blame Ringo Starr.

[pitkin88]

From Andy: ...there was a project a while back which didn't happen because someone pulled out due to limited profit margins (and no, I'm not at liberty to reveal what that was). The more expensive it becomes, the harder it is to make a profit and therefore the less likelihood of getting something released. It is demoralising to work on a project, make significant investments in time and money and then discover a bootlegger released the material before the legitimate owners or licencees could.

That was my initial (fearful?) reaction when I saw this pop up. I wonder what kind of an impact this makes on the upcoming re-releases of the band's albums? I am not big on bootlegs to begin with, so I can easily overlook the need to have something like this. (I greatly prefer an official release.) But, the concern is real that we are not getting more/better/deeper releases because the bootleg market has already put that fire out.
On that principal alone, I will not be getting this - even though it is from my favorite era of the band.

Why would you deprive yourself of having something you really want on the whim that there may or may not be an official release. One minute Amuk is saying these releases are hurting possible new releases the next he is saying it won't affect sales much as its only 500 copies.

[pitkin88]

See what I meant pitkin when I commented in the other thread about the reissues DD mentioned. "Hope this gets released without the usual BS" this is just the start. If WB really wants to release a quality interesting reissue series, they'e going to need to cut out the usual "helpers". The lack of forthright people in the AC camp has screwed things up and is further tamping down an already shrinking fan base. and may even purchase this unoffical version

KInd of reminds me of the Zappa archival material, although different because a lot of material was being released, but Gail the gatekeeper, was doing her damnedest to alienate the fan base with unnecessary delays and c**tiness. Amazing now that she's gone, how new releases are flowing out of the vault - without delays.

This Mar Y Sol show (which I already have) I would still have purchased as an official release and may buy this unofficial version but could have been made available. Hey why not do a "Beat the Bootleggers" series?. No Shep has better plans - do nothing for years, have minions bitch about unofficial product, then have said minions compile an unsatisfying collection of material. Yea - brilliant, way to make something that should be a joy to discuss, collect, consume, into a pissy, crappy affair. I think Shep has turned his marketing game from "pissing off the parents" to pissing on the fans.

Exactly the whole thing needs fresh eyes, ears and a willingness to get things done. The fan experience for Shep is about gouging gullible fans to hand over exhorbitant amounts if cash for a quick smile and a scrawled autograph. I honestly believe Shep could hive two ships about the music.


Side bar: Is Mar Y Sol public domain? How long has it been unofficially available?

[A_MichaelUK]

From Toronto Bob:
"If WB really wants to release a quality interesting reissue series, they'e going to need to cut out the usual "helpers"."

Why don't you offer your services?

> The lack of forthright people in the AC camp has screwed things up and is further tamping down an already shrinking fan base.

If only you knew how inaccurate your statement is. The part you still don't understand is that all these final decisions are made by the party that owns the recordings. It isn't Alice, it isn't the band, it isn't Shep and it isn't you or me either. If you have a problem with this then complain to Warner Brothers but given there is so little public information available about the albums Dennis referred to, I don't know what it is about them that you have a problem with. Almost nobody knows anything about them. You don't even know what's going to be on them and to be honest, I don't even know for a fact if they will eventually be released.

>KInd of reminds me of the Zappa archival material, although different because a lot of material was being released, but Gail the gatekeeper, was doing her damnedest to alienate the fan base with unnecessary delays and c**tiness. Amazing now that she's gone, how new releases are flowing out of the vault - without delays.

Again, complain to Warner Brothers and let us see their reply.

>Hey why not do a "Beat the Bootleggers" series?. No Shep has better plans -

Again, you are becoming obsessed with this particular individual for some reason. For the billionth time on this forum, it is not his decision.

>do nothing for years, have minions bitch about unofficial product, then have said minions compile an unsatisfying collection of material.

It is weird how you have never suggested what you would have done despite being asked but it's far easier to complain from the safety of your keyboard rather than take action.

[A_MichaelUK]

From pitkin88:
"One minute Amuk is saying these releases are hurting possible new releases the next he is saying it won't affect sales much as its only 500 copies."

What if future bootlegs are released in much larger quantities than that? What about the digital copies which will be made from those currently available?

[A_MichaelUK]

From pitkin88:
"The fan experience for Shep is about gouging gullible fans to hand over exhorbitant amounts if cash for a quick smile and a scrawled autograph. I honestly believe Shep could hive two ships about the music."

I don't understand what that has to do with this thread. This should have been posted in the other thread maybe.

[pitkin88]

From pitkin88:
"One minute Amuk is saying these releases are hurting possible new releases the next he is saying it won't affect sales much as its only 500 copies."

What if future bootlegs are released in much larger quantities than that? What about the digital copies which will be made from those currently available?

That is the best you've got. You're spinning faster than an off center bootleg.

[Daggers & Contracts]

[While Heaven Wept]

I'm convinced that Pitkin and TB are simply trolls.

[Dannorama]

I'm convinced that Pitkin and TB are simply trolls.

It's sad how Some Folks choose to use this forum as a spittoon.

[A_MichaelUK]

From pitkin88:
"That is the best you've got. You're spinning faster than an off center bootleg."

Answer the questions.

[jacknifejohnny]

While heaven wept.....Everyone is entitled to an opinion :

[wind_up_toy]

I'm convinced that Pitkin and TB are simply trolls.

It's sad how Some Folks choose to use this forum as a spittoon.

It happens pretty much everywhere on the internetz.

A good general rule is to only type something you wouldn't be afraid to say to someone's face. I always try to stick to that.

[Toronto Bob]

I'm convinced that Pitkin and TB are simply trolls.

It's sad how Some Folks choose to use this forum as a spittoon.

It happens pretty much everywhere on the internetz.

A good general rule is to only type something you wouldn't be afraid to say to someone's face. I always try to stick to that.

Well believe it or not, I actually have that same rule, guess I'm just not as nice as you. If one were really go back and consider all my posts compared to Amuk - I am the one on the side of the Alice Cooper fan, I will put in the hours to edit and compile fan made audio and video projects for everyone to enjoy.

Yea I am critical but I would challenge anyone to point out any of my criticisms that aren't accurate. Not trolling just want quality archival product. The fact of the matter is that Amuk is the troll, some of you just can't/won't see that.