SickthingsUK

pitkin88 wrote:

Dannorama wrote:Are you saying that you have the AC group doing covers of those two songs? I'm already skeptical of their pedigree. If that's not what you mean, then who's covers are you referring to?

He is not saying that. He is just referring to someone else covering the songs better than Alice.

pitkin88 is right. I was referring to 2 songs from the Welcome to Our Nightmare 2 CD release of covers from the early 90's.

Ted

Saint&Sinner wrote:

I feel like most people's love for W2MN is more a reaction to Ezrin bringing back a professional (albeit for me unlikable) approach compared to the lackluster, amateruish production of the previous albums than it is to the actual quality of the songs or concept

I agree that post brutal planet alice has been pretty poor up until W2MN but while the ezrin connection may have improved some peoples early impressions the further we get away from the release the easier it is to see people like it precisely because its a return to form. Both in production and songwriting. Yeah there are a couple of underwhelming songs but it still gets heavy rotation on my stereo.

I am always interested to know whether people would still love a song by the ACG if it was "ghouls gone wild" i like 2 of the 3 by the original group but i think if they had more solid material they would have been on the album.

Of course not that song is complete shite. I'd have no problem saying something is bad if DD MB and NS where involved. I loved Iggy getting The Stooges back together but The Weirdness was plain awful. Live they killed.

concolz wrote:Anything to do with nightmares, serial killers, or going to hell, then I'm not interested. If it's an Ezrin kitchen-sink production, or steamrollered hair-metal, then forget it. Ditto 'guests', or covers.

Almost certainly, it ain't going to be an all-out ACG effort, or they'd have been trumpeting its jaw-droppingness already. So, unless it's as radical a departure as the final three WB albums, or 'BP' was, then I'm not splashing the cash just for old time's sake.

You pretty much hot the nail on the head. Does beg the question what the theme will be if any.

pitkin88 wrote:

concolz wrote:Anything to do with nightmares, serial killers, or going to hell, then I'm not interested. If it's an Ezrin kitchen-sink production, or steamrollered hair-metal, then forget it. Ditto 'guests', or covers.

Almost certainly, it ain't going to be an all-out ACG effort, or they'd have been trumpeting its jaw-droppingness already. So, unless it's as radical a departure as the final three WB albums, or 'BP' was, then I'm not splashing the cash just for old time's sake.

You pretty much hot the nail on the head. Does beg the question what the theme will be if any.

As I understand it, Alice has already said that it isn't going to be a concept album and is focusing on straight forward rock. Obviously Alice and Ezrin work well together and bring out the best with each other but most in here would agree that from the inside and TLT are superb albums, personally I love 'the eyes of...'

pitkin88 wrote:Wow I didn't think anyone liked that awful Keisha track. IBYFO is by far the best song on the album.

Other than the bonus track Under My Bed, I think the song with Kesha is the best on the album.

Ted Sallis wrote:

pitkin88 wrote:

Dannorama wrote:Are you saying that you have the AC group doing covers of those two songs? I'm already skeptical of their pedigree. If that's not what you mean, then who's covers are you referring to?

He is not saying that. He is just referring to someone else covering the songs better than Alice.

pitkin88 is right. I was referring to 2 songs from the Welcome to Our Nightmare 2 CD release of covers from the early 90's.

Ted

I was questioning my entire career as a Cooper fan. What if the original band had helped sow the seeds of WTMN, and I never knew about it...?! Glad I can keep my credentials.

pitkin88 wrote:

Saint&Sinner wrote:

I feel like most people's love for W2MN is more a reaction to Ezrin bringing back a professional (albeit for me unlikable) approach compared to the lackluster, amateruish production of the previous albums than it is to the actual quality of the songs or concept

I agree that post brutal planet alice has been pretty poor up until W2MN but while the ezrin connection may have improved some peoples early impressions the further we get away from the release the easier it is to see people like it precisely because its a return to form. Both in production and songwriting. Yeah there are a couple of underwhelming songs but it still gets heavy rotation on my stereo.

I am always interested to know whether people would still love a song by the ACG if it was "ghouls gone wild" i like 2 of the 3 by the original group but i think if they had more solid material they would have been on the album.

Of course not that song is complete shite. I'd have no problem saying something is bad if DD MB and NS where involved. I loved Iggy getting The Stooges back together but The Weirdness was plain awful. Live they killed.

Totally agree with Pitkin. Glad some people can still listen to W2MN. I listened to it all the way through a handful of times, and I went back to it a couple times over the following months and once back in January to try to see if I would grow on me, but I think it is in the top five of his worst albums Trash, Constrictor, and Zipper Catches Skin being close competition. I don't see great songwriting or production. Caffiene, Runaway Train and When Hell Comes Home are good, but the rest of the album is embarrassing in my opinion.

I look at the original band and solo Alice as two completely seperate entities and try not to compare the two. The original band was lightning in a bottle. It was a magical time and they gave us legendary music. The impact they had on music is immeasurable. The four Ezin produced albums are some of the greatest rock albums ever made. They are testaments to the creativity and genius of the original band.

Alice's solo career is one of variety and versatility. It is those two things that have allowed him to have a successful career (albeit with ups and downs) since 1975. I prefer solo Alice for this reason. He never stopped forging ahead. He still keeps looking ahead and that's why I think he is not too keen on a full scale reunion.

As we all can see, Alice is now in coasting mode--at least with the live shows. I will say that I think it would be great to replace the covers section in a few selected cities with a 5-6 song set with the original band. And replace the classic songs that appear in the main set with a few obscure tracks. No matter what---I would hope that he dump the covers section once and for all. It's tired. It was from day one!

The cover to W2MN ruined the whole project. What the hell was Alice thinking? Cheap, schlocky nonsense. Also, the title is stupid. The album itself is decent and deserved a better cover and title.

Even if this were to be a true sequel to the album (which I find a huge stretch), I think they could have come up with a more creative title.

Who knows--maybe if there ever is a full reunion of the original band we will get an album with an original title like "School's Out Part II".

Have not really thought anything after Brutal Planet has much replay value. When Dragotown came out I really liked it but don't play it so much now, everything after Dragotown I was not that fussed about when it came out let alone now. I really hope this album is something completely different.

I really didn't like the two industrial metal albums but thought eyes and DD were good solid rock albums, especially eyes! And I'm one of the few on here (it seems) that really like HV. I take what everyone says about Alice coasting as far as the live sets are concerned! The who are currently touring tommy! Would love Alice to do something like that. Just played 'model citizen' it worked great live, would love that, grim facts, brought back. Ah well we just need to wait and see! Perhaps he will surprise us for the uk tour!

The cover to W2MN ruined the whole project. What the hell was Alice thinking? Cheap, schlocky nonsense. Also, the title is stupid. The album itself is decent and deserved a better cover and title.

The cover was terrible, especially when the inside cover was superb. (the orignal cover of WTMN but decayed and rotting away) i have no idea why that switch happened. But you cant blame a bad cover for ruining a project. The name was so so, its silly and a little hammy but it gets the point across i suppose and allowed a bit more cash injection for the similarity i guess.

I do not like anything between Brutal planet ( to a lesser degree dragontown) and W2MN they were boring overly simplistic affairs with little creative spark.
But as mentioned some people love/like that stuff so i think people saying he is coasting is unfair he is putting the hours in and putting out product that not many can keep up with at the respective ages.
Live he has totally fallen into a coast - i think this is more of an issue with his band than him to be fair. i think the band is stale and you can see the difference with Nita joining the band and the spark she has injected - whether Alice takes full advantage of this is another matter.
The covers section can politely (or violently) sod off!

Saint&Sinner wrote:

The cover to W2MN ruined the whole project. What the hell was Alice thinking? Cheap, schlocky nonsense. Also, the title is stupid. The album itself is decent and deserved a better cover and title.

The cover was terrible, especially when the inside cover was superb. (the orignal cover of WTMN but decayed and rotting away) i have no idea why that switch happened. But you cant blame a bad cover for ruining a project. The name was so so, its silly and a little hammy but it gets the point across i suppose and allowed a bit more cash injection for the similarity i guess.

I do not like anything between Brutal planet ( to a lesser degree dragontown) and W2MN they were boring overly simplistic affairs with little creative spark.
But as mentioned some people love/like that stuff so i think people saying he is coasting is unfair he is putting the hours in and putting out product that not many can keep up with at the respective ages.
Live he has totally fallen into a coast - i think this is more of an issue with his band than him to be fair. i think the band is stale and you can see the difference with Nita joining the band and the spark she has injected - whether Alice takes full advantage of this is another matter.
The covers section can politely (or violently) sod off!

It's good to finally see more people here fessing up to how boring the live show/set has become. I dont think his touring band are in anyway to blame though. They are all accomplished musicians and are playing what Alice wants. The problem is two fold. The stage show has not evolved and many songs just need to be retired. I'm not sure what Alice's motivation is for these gruelling tours but it isn't creativity. How he plays a lot of that stuff night after night is beyond me. The time to hang up crutch is surely getting closer every day.

pitkin88 wrote:

Saint&Sinner wrote:

The cover to W2MN ruined the whole project. What the hell was Alice thinking? Cheap, schlocky nonsense. Also, the title is stupid. The album itself is decent and deserved a better cover and title.

The cover was terrible, especially when the inside cover was superb. (the orignal cover of WTMN but decayed and rotting away) i have no idea why that switch happened. But you cant blame a bad cover for ruining a project. The name was so so, its silly and a little hammy but it gets the point across i suppose and allowed a bit more cash injection for the similarity i guess.

I do not like anything between Brutal planet ( to a lesser degree dragontown) and W2MN they were boring overly simplistic affairs with little creative spark.
But as mentioned some people love/like that stuff so i think people saying he is coasting is unfair he is putting the hours in and putting out product that not many can keep up with at the respective ages.
Live he has totally fallen into a coast - i think this is more of an issue with his band than him to be fair. i think the band is stale and you can see the difference with Nita joining the band and the spark she has injected - whether Alice takes full advantage of this is another matter.
The covers section can politely (or violently) sod off!

It's good to finally see more people here fessing up to how boring the live show/set has become. I dont think his touring band are in anyway to blame though. They are all accomplished musicians and are playing what Alice wants. The problem is two fold. The stage show has not evolved and many songs just need to be retired. I'm not sure what Alice's motivation is for these gruelling tours but it isn't creativity. How he plays a lot of that stuff night after night is beyond me. The time to hang up crutch is surely getting closer every day.

I agree completely. The band based on a couple passing conversations that I have had with members do not find out the setlist until the show is put together, and they always seem happy when there is a completely new show or are new additions to the set that haven't been played in awhile or ever by them.

guttertrash wrote: I agree completely. The band based on a couple passing conversations that I have had with members do not find out the setlist until the show is put together, and they always seem happy when there is a completely new show or are new additions to the set that haven't been played in awhile or ever by them.

This is true, they love doing new stuff, but having said that, have you noticed what AC songs they play when doing their own solo/non-AC shows? It's more often then not SC, 18, Poison, FMF etc...

Si wrote: This is true, they love doing new stuff, but having said that, have you noticed what AC songs they play when doing their own solo/non-AC shows? It's more often then not SC, 18, Poison, FMF etc...

So true Si,
More than likely for much the same reason that Alice keeps them in the setlist - recognizable to most (it not all - "casual" fans)

Saint&Sinner wrote:

Live he has totally fallen into a coast - i think this is more of an issue with his band than him to be fair. i think the band is stale and you can see the difference with Nita joining the band and the spark she has injected - whether Alice takes full advantage of this is another matter.
The covers section can politely (or violently) sod off!

Nita is immeasureably wonderful and she would jump out of anything in a positive way, so while I agree she has injected energy - she would do that to any project and it's to no shame to the guys.

I could have started a new thread for this but decided to post it here instead. From Blabbermouth here is a news headline which should ring a familiar bell with most of you here.

Former GHOST Members Accuse Singer Of Trying To 'Shamelessly' Turn 'Band' Into 'Solo Project'

I'm not really familiar with the band other than that they seem to be the 10,741st rip-off of AC.

Ted

Ted Sallis wrote:I could have started a new thread for this but decided to post it here instead. From Blabbermouth here is a news headline which should ring a familiar bell with most of you here.

Former GHOST Members Accuse Singer Of Trying To 'Shamelessly' Turn 'Band' Into 'Solo Project'

I'm not really familiar with the band other than that they seem to be the 10,741st rip-off of AC.

Ted

Why bother having an opinion if you know nothing about them? If you did bother to listen to them you'd know they sound nothing like him.

While Heaven Wept wrote:Why bother having an opinion if you know nothing about them? If you did bother to listen to them you'd know they sound nothing like him.

Well, I was referring to their image; you don't have to know anything about them to take just one look and see yet another AC rip-off.

My main point in my post was to emphasize the similarity in what their singer is trying to do with what Alice did in the mid-70's.

Ted