New Alice Album in 2 or 3 months

[Ted Sallis]

This comment was very recently posted in an ACG facebook Group:

NEW ALICE COOPER ALBUM
Only 3 songs with The Original ALICE COOPER Band

So if the above is accurate it looks like the comedy of hybrid ACG reunions continue.

Why do you think it is a comedy?

Because I believe Alice, BE and Shep are trying to appease the ACG reunion supporters like myself by formulating these hybrid (aka partial) reunions rather than a full-fledged one. By repeating the 'formula' (3 ACG songs on the last album, 3 ACG songs on the next one), it does start to look like a comedy to me.

Ted

[Ted Sallis]

Alice writes songs for his albums that don't make it too. Under The Bed was one that was an absolute standout and way better than moat of the album. Its exclusion was it didn't fit the story line not that it was sub par. You where not at the new album recording sesions so you really have no idea whether the material is there or not. The constant band bashing and rewriting history with Dick Wagner did this and that and the genius of Shep and Alice is starting to get tiring.

I believe the above post is absolutely correct. Is there anyone here who DOESN'T think there was a HUGE change in direction between the last ACG album MOL and Alice's 1st solo album WTMN? Consider this:

- Dick Wagner was a stellar guitarist.

- Alice was/is a stellar lyricist/singer/front man.

But it was the stellar songwriting talent of Neal Smith, Dennis Dunaway and (especially) Michael Bruce which in my view places the ACG material so much higher in quality than most of Alice's solo stuff.

A perfect example? Listen to the Battle Axe album, with no Alice or Dick Wagner, just MB, NS, DD plus another guitarist (Mike Marconi) and Bob Dolin (who played with the ACG) and compare it to ANY of Alice's solo albums.

This brings me back to my conversation with AMUK - I've listened to 3 songs from L&W so far: Damned if you do, King of the Silver Screen and Ubangi Stomp. My verdict so far?

- The Battle Axe album is nothing short of a minor masterpiece.

- L&W? I pretty much agree with you that it's a stinker - so far.

Ted

[mr.barlow]

I think the fact alone that only three songs out of six recorded are being included speaks volumes as to why there is not a full reunion album. The material is just not there.

They could have resorted to using outside writers to produce material but then that would ruffle the feathers of the original band purists. What good is an original band reunion if they are recording songs written by others? They wrote what they could and Alice and Ezrin chose what they felt was worthy of release.

Also, has anyone spoken with the original members about only the three songs being included? Are they as upset about it as some on this forum are?

Maybe Jim Buttfudge could take to social media and call for a boycott of the album since only three out of six songs were chosen. I mean it's just not right!!

Alice writes songs for his albums that don't make it too. Under The Bed was one that was an absolute standout and way better than moat of the album. Its exclusion was it didn't fit the story line not that it was sub par. You where not at the new album recording sesions so you really have no idea whether the material is there or not. The constant band bashing and rewriting history with Dick Wagner did this and that and the genius of Shep and Alice is starting to get tiring.

I am going by what is known...it has been stated by all involved that there were six songs written and that three were chosen.

I would think if the band in whole or in part could compile an albums worth of decent material it would see the light of day and likely released as a full reunion album. Do you think Shep would thumb his nose at what could be a very lucrative album?

In a standard album, it's safe to say that any band/artist will write, record or at least demo quite a few more songs than actually needed. In this instance would think that at least 16 songs would need to be written. That is a huge task.

Also, sometimes the spark is no longer there between former collaborators. Just because it was magic in 1972 does not mean the magic is still there in 2017.

As far as "bashing" the original band, I think that is your perception. I simply point out facts, some of them unpleasant, that are backed up by statements of those involved. Some of these facts came from people you claim I am bashing.

Dick Wagner did do "this and that" and a lot more. It's not rewriting history, the history is written and it's basically common knowledge. Wagner was involved since "School's Out" where he played on one of the greatest Alice songs, "My Stars". His guitar parts are epic on that song and he deserves to be acknowledged for them. Also, he played and wrote one song on B$B and also played on MOL. How is this re-writing history? If not for Wagner there would have never been a successful solo Alice career. Next to the original band, he is the most vital person in the career of Alice. You think it's "tiring", try typing this crap out without caffeine!

Shep is a genius. Alice is a genius. That one word sums up both men.

[pitkin88]

I think the fact alone that only three songs out of six recorded are being included speaks volumes as to why there is not a full reunion album. The material is just not there.

They could have resorted to using outside writers to produce material but then that would ruffle the feathers of the original band purists. What good is an original band reunion if they are recording songs written by others? They wrote what they could and Alice and Ezrin chose what they felt was worthy of release.

Also, has anyone spoken with the original members about only the three songs being included? Are they as upset about it as some on this forum are?

Maybe Jim Buttfudge could take to social media and call for a boycott of the album since only three out of six songs were chosen. I mean it's just not right!!

Alice writes songs for his albums that don't make it too. Under The Bed was one that was an absolute standout and way better than moat of the album. Its exclusion was it didn't fit the story line not that it was sub par. You where not at the new album recording sesions so you really have no idea whether the material is there or not. The constant band bashing and rewriting history with Dick Wagner did this and that and the genius of Shep and Alice is starting to get tiring.

I am going by what is known...it has been stated by all involved that there were six songs written and that three were chosen.

I would think if the band in whole or in part could compile an albums worth of decent material it would see the light of day and likely released as a full reunion album. Do you think Shep would thumb his nose at what could be a very lucrative album?

In a standard album, it's safe to say that any band/artist will write, record or at least demo quite a few more songs than actually needed. In this instance would think that at least 16 songs would need to be written. That is a huge task.

Also, sometimes the spark is no longer there between former collaborators. Just because it was magic in 1972 does not mean the magic is still there in 2017.

As far as "bashing" the original band, I think that is your perception. I simply point out facts, some of them unpleasant, that are backed up by statements of those involved. Some of these facts came from people you claim I am bashing.

Dick Wagner did do "this and that" and a lot more. It's not rewriting history, the history is written and it's basically common knowledge. Wagner was involved since "School's Out" where he played on one of the greatest Alice songs, "My Stars". His guitar parts are epic on that song and he deserves to be acknowledged for them. Also, he played and wrote one song on B$B and also played on MOL. How is this re-writing history? If not for Wagner there would have never been a successful solo Alice career. Next to the original band, he is the most vital person in the career of Alice. You think it's "tiring", try typing this crap out without caffeine!

Shep is a genius. Alice is a genius. That one word sums up both men.

This is a solo album. I'm sure the brief was bring in 5 or 6 songs and not a whole albums worth. If it was a re-union album I'm pretty sure it would not be aborted because if a lack of songs. Don't forget this is ultimately Alice's vision. I don't think Shep has much to do with the music and if he did why not stop ACAStinker? There is really no such thing anymore as a lucrative album for Alice.

I notice you don't praise Mick Mashbir who played on BDB's and MOL. Why is that? His solo on Slick Black is amazing. Wagner has admitted he played some solos ( great yes, as did Steve Hunter )on some ACG records. Solos, that is it. That is the extent of it along with ILTD. Making anything more of his contributions is a bit silly and I'm sure if he was alove he'd agree with me.

I'm calling BS on the successful solo career too. He needed Alice not the other way round. Wagner had no hit records at that point. He was a session guitarist and a hired live hand. Alice could have found another co writer. Alice was the star not Wagner.

Finally, Wagner co wrote some of the worst Alice Cooper songs in history: No More Love, Damned If You Do, You and Me, You Gotta Dance, I Am The Coolest. DD MB NS and GB never inflicted dross like that on us.

[Babysquid]

I am going by what is known...it has been stated by all involved that there were six songs written and that three were chosen.

Where has this been stated by all involved? I thought it was posted and an ACG Facebook page ( not the official Alice Cooper page) and it hadn't been confirmed yet.

[Maaki]

This comment was very recently posted in an ACG facebook Group:

NEW ALICE COOPER ALBUM
Only 3 songs with The Original ALICE COOPER Band

So if the above is accurate it looks like the comedy of hybrid ACG reunions continue.

Why do you think it is a comedy?

Because I believe Alice, BE and Shep are trying to appease the ACG reunion supporters like myself by formulating these hybrid (aka partial) reunions rather than a full-fledged one. By repeating the 'formula' (3 ACG songs on the last album, 3 ACG songs on the next one), it does start to look like a comedy to me.

Ted

There is no appeasing anyone, Alice does not owe it to anyone and least of all to people who don't even listen to his records and go to his concerts.

Alice is making a record - a solo record at that. There is no meaningful commercial success to be had unless you happen to be Taylor Swift. So he is doing what he enjoys - such as doing a few tracks with his own band that he used to work with well over !40! years ago. He is doing a few tracks with some other people.

It is not bashing the ACG if some don't think the magic would be there. It is common sense. 99,9% of these reunions fail on all levels not limited to artistically. They were young and full of energy. Most bands do their defining work when they are young. Pretending that ACG would be magic again if only some conspiracy theory didn't stop them from doing so is the comedy here.

[dadascot]

Ted[/quote]

There is no appeasing anyone, Alice does not owe it to anyone and least of all to people who don't even listen to his records and go to his concerts.

Alice is making a record - a solo record at that. There is no meaningful commercial success to be had unless you happen to be Taylor Swift. So he is doing what he enjoys - such as doing a few tracks with his own band that he used to work with well over !40! years ago. He is doing a few tracks with some other people.

It is not bashing the ACG if some don't think the magic would be there. It is common sense. 99,9% of these reunions fail on all levels not limited to artistically. They were young and full of energy. Most bands do their defining work when they are young. Pretending that ACG would be magic again if only some conspiracy theory didn't stop them from doing so is the comedy here.[/quote]

I agree with this whole-heartedly, although as a disclaimer the three ACG contributions were the strongest tracks on W2MN (along with caffeine) but that is not to say that they have a full album in them. However these tracks came from songs already written by the individual members. Remember each of the surviving members have kept writing, performing and recording themselves, not on the same scale, but they will all have a bank of songs that can be re-worked.

[mr.barlow]

This is a solo album. I'm sure the brief was bring in 5 or 6 songs and not a whole albums worth. If it was a re-union album I'm pretty sure it would not be aborted because if a lack of songs. Don't forget this is ultimately Alice's vision. I don't think Shep has much to do with the music and if he did why not stop ACAStinker? There is really no such thing anymore as a lucrative album for Alice.

I notice you don't praise Mick Mashbir who played on BDB's and MOL. Why is that? His solo on Slick Black is amazing. Wagner has admitted he played some solos ( great yes, as did Steve Hunter )on some ACG records. Solos, that is it. That is the extent of it along with ILTD. Making anything more of his contributions is a bit silly and I'm sure if he was alove he'd agree with me.

I'm calling BS on the successful solo career too. He needed Alice not the other way round. Wagner had no hit records at that point. He was a session guitarist and a hired live hand. Alice could have found another co writer. Alice was the star not Wagner.

Finally, Wagner co wrote some of the worst Alice Cooper songs in history: No More Love, Damned If You Do, You and Me, You Gotta Dance, I Am The Coolest. DD MB NS and GB never inflicted dross like that on us.

I think it would be safe to say that if they all got together and started cranking out killer songs and the magic was there that the plans for the album would take a different direction. I agree that Shep likely has little to do with the music and would agree that it is Alice's vision along with an equal amount of input from Ezrin. Also, I agree that whatever happens is totally up to Shep, Alice and Ezrin as they are the ones who financed it all. It's their dime--it's their call!

I also agree that there is no such thing as a "lucrative" album anymore when compared to the glory days of the music industry. But this project will be lucrative to the investors and they will see a decent return on their money. If not, it would not be made. You can make as much money today by selling 100,000 units as one would in 1979 selling 1,000,000 units. Alice, Shep and Ezrin own EVERYTHING and I will guarantee will make a nice return on this release even if it has modest sales.

As to the praise of Mick Mashbir and others....if you recall I was the one on this forum that has called for each and every person who played on the original ACG albums be fully credited and their contributions be duly noted. A full annotation of who played what solos, contributed rhythm tracks etc. EVERYBODY. You will also recall that I received some major backlash from people for wanting this done. It was portrayed as Glen bashing, or trying to take away from the original members. Mick Mashbir deserves as much credit for being on those albums as does Wagner, Hunter or anyone else for that matter! It's his talent and his playing that the listener hears.

Alice and Wagner worked perfect together both on a professional and personal level. This is well documented in Wagner's book. Alice at that point could have worked with anyone yet he chose Wagner. Ezrin also worked well with Wagner. Take Wagner out of the equation there would have never been 1975 through 1979 and many Top 20 singles. You may not like the songs but they were hugely successful.

Also, there was a reason Wagner was brought in for Zipper and more importantly for DaDa. If it were not for Dick Wagner coaxing Alice to Toronto there would have never been Dada. To me, Dada is the crown jewel in Alice's catalog. Dada was the album that helped Alice turn the corner and enter 1984 with the thoughts of comeback, instead of leaving the business a has-been failure. Thank you Dick Wagner!

Most of the songs you listed are awful, but one of my favorite Alice sons is "I'm The Coolest". . It's all based on taste. The biggest turd, "No More Love At Your Convenience" could and should be hung around the necks of all involved. It's a travesty, and to me the only real shitstain on Alice's career. It has to be remembered though that they were pushed by WB to include a disco tinged song on the album. In other words--they had no choice! Also, keep in mind that "You & Me"--a huge hit--grew out of an original version of "No More Love..." So at least it was good for that.

I will reach out to some people in the Wagner camp, maybe we can get Wagner's son or Suzy Michelson to get involved with the forum and to represent Wagner on here. I'm sure they can offer all kinds of anecdotes, facts, stories etc.

[mr.barlow]

I would think that the best way to end all speculation, including my own, is for any member(s) of the original band or their representatives to give us insight into the writing for the new album.

How did the writing sessions go? How fruitful were they? Were there any discussions as to if they found that the magic was there once again with the writing that it could to a full blown reunion album?

What were the expectations of the original band members going into the project? Did they bring songs to the table which were re-worked, or did they sit down and write as a unit? Were they inolved in the selection of the songs included?

Now that it has been announced that there are only three songs from the original members are they disappointed?

This would put an end to any speculation and give us a inside view of the project.

Just puting it out there.

[pitkin88]

There is no appeasing anyone, Alice does not owe it to anyone and least of all to people who don't even listen to his records and go to his concerts.

Alice is making a record - a solo record at that. There is no meaningful commercial success to be had unless you happen to be Taylor Swift. So he is doing what he enjoys - such as doing a few tracks with his own band that he used to work with well over !40! years ago. He is doing a few tracks with some other people.

It is not bashing the ACG if some don't think the magic would be there. It is common sense. 99,9% of these reunions fail on all levels not limited to artistically. They were young and full of energy. Most bands do their defining work when they are young. Pretending that ACG would be magic again if only some conspiracy theory didn't stop them from doing so is the comedy here.[/quote]


Which re-unions are you talking about? 99 percemt? The Stooges great, MTH great, The NYD great.

So by your last statement Alice has no magic left and a great album is beyond him?

[RemarkablyInsincere]

How did the writing sessions go? How fruitful were they? Were there any discussions as to if they found that the magic was there once again with the writing that it could to a full blown reunion album?

Anyone hoping that they'd create anything as masterful as the classic albums almost 50 years later is kidding themselves.

Those albums were created by people that had been spending most if not all of their waking hours together for years. They toured, performed and honed their crafts together and then, by the grace of God, magic was created as the stars aligned and everything fell into place. After huge success, they gradually started drifting in separate directions and it's no coincidence things started to go South.

Simply putting these 4 people together without the circumstances, and not to mention they're not 20 somethings anymore, is not going to produce the same results.

That's not to say I won't be interested in seeing what they can do together and seeing if there are a few flashes of that old brilliance, but you have to be realistic, it's impossible to get back to that place in time and space.

[Maaki]

Which re-unions are you talking about? 99 percemt? The Stooges great, MTH great, The NYD great.

So by your last statement Alice has no magic left and a great album is beyond him?

I am talking about almost all reunions as the 99% should indicate. Almost all of them just come and go to everyone else but the hardest of hardcore fans, because they fail.

I am not saying Alice has no magic left, please do not put words in my mouth. I am saying most artists do their defining work when they are young - as I wrote. Expecting ACG to just get up and continue to be magic is unrealistic. Alice himself on the other hand has decades of track record proving he has stood the test of time and there is magic in his work to this day.

[pitkin88]

Which re-unions are you talking about? 99 percemt? The Stooges great, MTH great, The NYD great.

So by your last statement Alice has no magic left and a great album is beyond him?

I am talking about almost all reunions as the 99% should indicate. Almost all of them just come and go to everyone else but the hardest of hardcore fans, because they fail.

I am not saying Alice has no magic left, please do not put words in my mouth. I am saying most artists do their defining work when they are young - as I wrote. Expecting ACG to just get up and continue to be magic is unrealistic. Alice himself on the other hand has decades of track record proving he has stood the test of time and there is magic in his work to this day.

I'm really confused. Can you give me some examples of crap re-umions? I've given you 3 acclaimed ones. I am guessing the hardcore fans liked the shows as did the casual fan.

I have never heard anyone say the ACG would continue the magic of the 70's. I would just like to see them play their songs live with their singer and maybe record an album. I'm not expecting another BDB's classic and I don't think anyone else is either.

There has not been a lot of magical Alice solo for a long time. His defining work vanished with his youth as you pointed out. What I would like to see though is a good solo album with all involved.

[recoop]

I looked back to when this thread started-March 11th I think, which could indicate the album is due out very soon- a few pinches of salt required

[Mr. Skull]

I looked back to when this thread started-March 11th I think, which could indicate the album is due out very soon- a few pinches of salt required

From the home page : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiE86KUe470

[recoop]

I looked back to when this thread started-March 11th I think, which could indicate the album is due out very soon- a few pinches of salt required

From the home page : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiE86KUe470

I have been a fan since about 1971, but if this is the announcement of the new album (and date) then it was too esoteric for me. Thanks though.

[pitkin88]

I love the promo. It appears to be a bit polarizing which is great. It's soliciting a lot of WTF's and confusing some ( ptobably metal heads ) as it is causing them to think.

[scotty]

what a great teaser that promo is...if you put on headphones,turn up the volume a bit,you can hear some quick snippets of a song(s),particularly either chuck or Dennis's bass!

[nurofeg]

Exellent teaser, finally some i formation about new album.

[concolz]

I'd be really interested if the promo were indicative of the general 'thrust' of the album: all-out weirdsville. No dad-rock; no 'welcome to my serial killer hell'; no Wagner sapfests found in a bottom drawer; no Scooby Doo songs...... just something radically different.