Dragontown - poor timing?

[Dannorama]

Dragontown had the ignoble release date of September 18, 2001. It has always reminded me of that awful time, and try as I may, I simply do not like the album because of its unfortunate association with 9/11.

The lyrics didn't help, either...

Well, here you are lying bleeding on a grimy street
See the broken glass sparkling darkly as it cuts your feet
Smell the rotting stench, the rancid odor of old cantonese
Feel the toxic flames all around you, you can hardly breathe

Hopefully, I am not the only one who has this impression. I wonder if, had it been released at a different time, it would have been different. What do you think?

[kevinuk81]

And some of the lyrics to Somewhere In The Jungle.

[AlongCameASpider27]

I always thought this album was somewhat prophetic...especially the Sentinel...

"There's something disturbin going on in my turban and I'm home, home on derange" ...terrorists then...terrorists now...the worst of the worst in Dragontown

[Daggers & Contracts]

Dragontown had the ignoble release date of September 18, 2001. It has always reminded me of that awful time, and try as I may, I simply do not like the album because of its unfortunate association with 9/11.

The lyrics didn't help, either...

Well, here you are lying bleeding on a grimy street
See the broken glass sparkling darkly as it cuts your feet
Smell the rotting stench, the rancid odor of old cantonese
Feel the toxic flames all around you, you can hardly breathe

Hopefully, I am not the only one who has this impression. I wonder if, had it been released at a different time, it would have been different. What do you think?

So, you say he was "channeling?' Had his finger on the pulse of the world?
I Love that album & saw the tour!

[pitkin88]

Turgid follow up to BP. Deeper just plods.

[Si]

Turgid follow up to BP. Deeper just plods.

You're becoming so predictable...

[kevinuk81]

Can we get the thoughts of Shoey on Deeper? I know he is a big fan of this song.

[pitkin88]

Turgid follow up to BP. Deeper just plods.

You're becoming so predictable...

sorry for not liking a poor album

[RealEyes]

I wonder if, had it been released at a different time, it would have been different.

I think that it would have been undoubtedly different for you had the album been released at a different time.

Personally, I've always been able to divorce the release of an album, book, film etc from the date it was released (although I'm not sure I could confidently say that in respect of a personal tragedy like the loss of a loved one). Luckily, I wasn't personally affected by the World Trade Centre attack (there but for the grace of god) so I can listen to Dragontown and enjoy it objectively. Were any of the lyrics written in direct response to the terrorist attack or was it just coincidence?

[A_MichaelUK]

RealEyes wrote:
"was it just coincidence?"

Yes.

[cooperrocks]

I like Dragontown but it paled in comparison to Brutal Planet, which in my opinion is one of Alice's finest albums. In regards of timing, I don't think it really mattered.

At the time classic hard rock artists weren't exactly lighting up the charts (and still aren't for the most part) and album sales were in rapid decline for most artists. For all of Brutal Planet's greatness and it did win some new fans due to its heaviness, it still did not sell particularly well. Alice was on a small label and the distribution for Brutal Planet was bad. The same applies to Dragontown which was also on the Spitfire label in the United States. As much as I liked Spitfire, none of the artists on their label (and they had some good ones on there) sold a ton of albums. There was little radio airplay, etc.

In other words, I don't think the date that Dragontown came out mattered one bit. Had it come up say a month before the 9/11 tragedy, sales would have still been around the same. Perhaps the album may have sold a few thousand more, but there still wasn't going to be any radio airplay, etc. That isn't meant as a criticism of Dragontown or the heavier direction which I loved. It was the musical climate at the time.

[RealEyes]

Was the OP asking if the album would have sold more had it been released at a different time? Apologies; I thought they were asking if they would've felt differently about the album had it been released at a different time.

[Saint&Sinner]

There is no doubt it was no where near as good as the majesty of brutal planet. But having said that i like a good half of that album a lot.
Triggerman, Deeper, Sex, death and money, Dragontown, Much to late, somewhere in the jungle , i just wanna be god.

While i like some more songs they just don't fit the album
Fantasy man, disgraceland, Every woman has a name

Then there are the stinkers of Sister sara & Sentinel

Oddly enough i found changing the tracklisting helps allot with the pacing of the album and overall tone.

It wouldn't have sold any more due to being on the rather terrible spitfire label. Terrbile promotion and support with poor supply to chains.
In terms of association i never had that issue as it just isn't relevant to the album - although there are some pieces which do show some thematic parallels.

The sad truth is that it just isnt strong enough of an album to follow something so great as brutal planet. I enjoyed the tour (the opening salvo of tunes from BP and dragontown went over VERY well - Dragontown and sex.death and money being massive highlights)

[ThePainAddict]

I think DT holds up quite nicely to BP. Musically a bit weaker, but lyrically better, much sharper wit.

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[nurserozetta]

Then there are the stinkers of Sister sara & Sentinel

Sister Sara is my favorite track on that album and I also love The Sentinel. Every Woman has a Name is also my favorite Alice Ballad !

Loved the album at the time though I'm much more likely to listen to BP these days

[guttertrash]

I just went back and listened to both Brutal Planet and Dragontown tonight, and they have not aged well at all in my opinion. They come off really dated along with most nu-metal albums. Brutal Planet is definitely the better of the two. I really didn't care for anything on the second half of Dragontown.

As for the timing, I feel like it makes sense. Alice delivers a dark narrative based on what we saw unfolding everyday. I think it lead to a three-fold narrative to the albums due to his faith and his awareness of the current events of the time (which still makes sense today): 1) A tour through the Christian concept of Hell 2) An apocalyptic trip through hell on earth 3) A journey in the mental Hell of such devious character. I know that he felt like Alice was the perfect doomsday prophet, but I think subconsciously due to his religious beliefs, all three narratives are revealed.

I feel like Brutal Planet and most of Dragontown are exceptional lyrically for the purpose that they were created for, but musically, they just live and are delivered based on trends from a time period that has not aged well musically. It's definitely heavier and darker than typical Alice, but it reminds me of a time period that I hate musically.

[Si]

For some strange reason I've always preferred DT. I rarely return to BP (not that it's a bad album at all, just doesn`t have the diversity of DT) but there's something about DT I really love, especially 'Sister Sara' which is a great song.

[RealEyes]

Alice delivers a dark narrative based on what we saw unfolding everyday. I think it lead to a three-fold narrative to the albums due to his faith and his awareness of the current events of the time...exceptional lyrically for the purpose that they were created for, but musically, they just live and are delivered based on trends from a time period that has not aged well musically. It's definitely heavier and darker than typical Alice, but it reminds me of a time period that I hate musically.

Whilst I'm not a fan of that genre of music either, as albums of their time it showed that Alice was aware of the trend and had a decent stab at it. Lyrically, I agree that the material is very revealing of his new found faith. Usually I find that approach very off-putting but not in this case, probably because it's easy to relate to his angry view of the world at that time and at no point does it feel as though he's trying to convert the listener.

[A_MichaelUK]

RealEyes wrote:
"I agree that the material is very revealing of his new found faith."

Well, maybe so but "The Last Temptation" was also a pretty big clue.

[While Heaven Wept]

Both BP and DT have some great songs but the production dates them terribly. The overly compressed drum sound and the synthetic tone of the guitars are a big turn off for me.

Having said that, BP felt more focused than DT as a cohesive album, although the high points on DT probably outshine those on BP. A real mixed bag all round.