who played what on Muscle of love.

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who played what on Muscle of love.

Post by mestreech » Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:51 am

Hi,

as this title is just released as a SACD there are on the Hoffmanforum some questions as who is playing the guitarparts on the tracks.
As I don't know all the info can someone help me and put me in the good direction.
Many thanks.

After all these years I still don't understand and regret the descision not to release Never Been Sold Before as a single. I could have been a huge hit.

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Re: who played what on Muscle of love.

Post by jacknifejohnny » Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:11 pm

Couldn't agree more, love the way those first 3 tracks on that album run into each other.

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Re: who played what on Muscle of love.

Post by patrick » Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:10 pm

totally agree with Mestreech : together with pa#9, Never been sold before is one of my all time favourites. Wasn't Teenage Lament 74 the only single from that album ?
you really wouldn't understand..

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Re: who played what on Muscle of love.

Post by mestreech » Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:23 pm

No,

muscle of love was also a single.

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Re: who played what on Muscle of love.

Post by pitkin88 » Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:09 pm

Muscle Of Love.

Mick Mashbir wrote the verse on Never Been Sold Before
Co wrote Hard Hearted Alice with Mike. Mike and Mick played solos on HHA.

I ENJOYED
“NO MORE MISTER NICE GUY” BECAUSE THAT WAS ONE OF THE FIRST SONGS WE
WORKED UP AT THE FIRST REHEARSAL.”WOMAN MACHINE” WAS ANOTHER ONE. THE
PRODUCERES WERE HASSLING ME TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING DIFFERENT AND I
USED A FOXX OCTAVE PEDAL TO GET THAT EFFECT..OH AND i ALSO ENJOYED THE
TALK-BOX SOLO IN “MUSCLE OF LOVE”..WE MADE OUR OWN IN THE STUDIO AND IT
JUST INSPIRED THAT SOLO.

Jack Richardson brought me in to play on “Big Apple Dreamin’” and “Workin’ Up a Sweat”
WAGNER

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Re: who played what on Muscle of love.

Post by pitkin88 » Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:10 pm

Also you might want to point out that Alice did not play the harmonica on WUAS.

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Re: who played what on Muscle of love.

Post by Babysquid » Wed Dec 23, 2015 10:21 am

pitkin88 wrote:Also you might want to point out that Alice did not play the harmonica on WUAS.
Why didn't he? He's certainly capable

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Re: who played what on Muscle of love.

Post by pitkin88 » Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:01 pm

Babysquid wrote:
pitkin88 wrote:Also you might want to point out that Alice did not play the harmonica on WUAS.
Why didn't he? He's certainly capable
Not sure but there is a thread on here somewhere.

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Re: who played what on Muscle of love.

Post by darkmenace » Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:31 pm

A little off topic, so I apologize.

Have had Muscle of Love on my mind lately and I have come up how it would have been a great success without changing one song. Admittedly it is borrowing ideas of others. But upon hearing some of the songs again, I feel it is a strong enough album to have sold much better.

First, packaging suggested by Dennis in his new book. A brown paper bag over the album that would be similar to the box, but the box was an impediment, clumsy and hard to store in record bins, in addition to the problem stated in Dennis's book that many were returned by record stores.

The brown bag is thin enough to be shrink-wrapped like a regular album, just a little thicker. Inside the brown bag the album art would be again what Dennis suggested: seedy, with Alice looking a bit like a street whore (not changing his image much from B$B) and the band as pimps. Film noir look, perhaps black and white. Back to the packaging when the band looked and acted like a rock band.

Gone are the sailor outfits and gorilla and Institute of Nude Wrestling, etc.

Song order:

Muscle of Love (strong opener, catchy song, opens with the album theme in a strong way and remains reminiscent of the strong Alice character on B&B).

Working Up a Sweat (again sticking to theme, strong one-two punch, hardy rocker, a B$B fan would be happy with this start)

Hard Hearted Alice (excellent song and keeps the momentum going)

Never Been Sold Before (continues album theme, which is sex, and continues to keep side one strong and basically unified)

Woman Machine (this has to be buried somewhere as one of the weaker songs but a good ending for side one given yet again the theme).

Big Apple Dreamin (Opens side two. A strong song but so out of character from B$B that it was a BAD opener on side one, so bland by comparison to strong openers like Schools Out and Hello Hooray, set the wrong tone for MOL. Nice way to start side two)

Teenage Lament (again, out of character, making side two the more "experimental" side, but still filled with good songs).

Man With the Golden Gun (I believe follows TL nicely).

Crazy Little Child (this song also has to be somewhere, I'd bury it at the end of side two)

I believe that, instead of being disappointed with MOL as I was, a person opening the cool album packaging then listening to side one, would have a great first impression of the album. They would then be intrigued by the experiments going on on side two, departures from usual Cooper.

The album would have sold better, people would have been happier, the band would have worked out their differences, and would still be together today. (Maybe not, but I think these ideas would have changed the perception of MOL. Now if only there was a parallel universe to test it on.)

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Re: who played what on Muscle of love.

Post by pitkin88 » Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:24 pm

I think the front and back of the Institute of Nude wrestling should have been the cover. Crazy Little Child should have been an outtake and replaced with Slick Black Limousine which a lot of people had probably not heard. The ending violin or cello from Big Apple Dreamin would not be missed either.

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Re: who played what on Muscle of love.

Post by Toronto Bob » Wed Dec 23, 2015 9:10 pm

The brown bag is a good idea. Kind of like buying a girlie magazine back in the day and it was always put in a brown paper bag to hide the dirty contents.

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Re: who played what on Muscle of love.

Post by recoop » Wed Dec 23, 2015 9:58 pm

We all have opinions- if I was dropping a track it would be Man with the Golden Gun and Woman Machine if I was to drop two of them. The cardboard box size was a bad mistake but would have seemed an innovative idea on the drawing board. It doesn't strike me as a xmas release album. I really like Never Been Sold Before and Big Apple Dreamin'. I wouldn't drop Crazy Little Child as it showed diversity ( a bit like the jazzy feel on Schools Out tracks). Good album but hard to follow BDB so quickly- don't know if contractual obligations meant it had to be produced in 1973 but a bit more time on it and a Feb74 or later release and I suspect it may have fared better. Hardly noticed in UK at the time.
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Re: who played what on Muscle of love.

Post by pitkin88 » Thu Dec 24, 2015 2:35 am

recoop wrote:We all have opinions- if I was dropping a track it would be Man with the Golden Gun and Woman Machine if I was to drop two of them. The cardboard box size was a bad mistake but would have seemed an innovative idea on the drawing board. It doesn't strike me as a xmas release album. I really like Never Been Sold Before and Big Apple Dreamin'. I wouldn't drop Crazy Little Child as it showed diversity ( a bit like the jazzy feel on Schools Out tracks). Good album but hard to follow BDB so quickly- don't know if contractual obligations meant it had to be produced in 1973 but a bit more time on it and a Feb74 or later release and I suspect it may have fared better. Hardly noticed in UK at the time.

The album had a top 10 hit so it was hardly unnoticed. The stores also had a lot of the album i stock. I do remember radio 1 ( I think ) playing two tracks before the albums release. We had a reel to reel at the time and I recorded off the radio.

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Re: who played what on Muscle of love.

Post by Ted Sallis » Thu Dec 24, 2015 2:49 am

darkmenace wrote:I believe that, instead of being disappointed with MOL as I was, a person opening the cool album packaging then listening to side one, would have a great first impression of the album. They would then be intrigued by the experiments going on on side two, departures from usual Cooper.

The album would have sold better, people would have been happier, the band would have worked out their differences, and would still be together today. (Maybe not, but I think these ideas would have changed the perception of MOL. Now if only there was a parallel universe to test it on.)
I think the packaging changes you suggest would have had a positive impact on record sales; it's just a question of how much. What could have helped more is if there was more than 1 (hit) single from the album and if the Group could have done a longer tour (in 1974) to support the album.

Ted

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Re: who played what on Muscle of love.

Post by mr.barlow » Thu Dec 24, 2015 4:43 am

I think the main problem is that it's always hard for any band to follow up a blockbuster album with an album that is equally as great. I think The Beatles would be one of the few exceptions.

I love the Muscle Of Love album but being that it was the follow-up to B$B it will always live in it's shadow. With that being said, the album does have it's shortcomings.

I don't have much of a complaint with the songs or track listing. It's obvious that a few are lackluster filler but even those songs are good tracks. It's my opinion that the album suffers from the production. To me it always seemed flat. B&B jumped out at you. It was a living breathing entity. MOL..not so much. I think with Ezrin we may have had an album with a little more life in it. It does have it's moments--namely the track MOL but overall it just seems to go through the motions.

I agree that releasing the album in a brown paper bag as DD suggested would have been a much better idea. Toronto Bob is right on the money as it would be akin to buying a skin mag in the 1970s. Not only did the box make it a nightmare for record shops, but it also fell flat with the fans. Gone was the sleekness of the whole B&B package only to be replaced with a lifeless boring cardboard box. A bad idea, especially for a band which was known for visuals.

The sailor suits were also a big mistake. I think if they went for the more seedy look that was proposed by DD it would have been met with a better response. But again---if it was hidden behind a box or paper bag--it wouldn't have the immediate visual impact that may make someone buy the album. The band's look and appearance had plenty to do with album sales--and now people were looking at a plain cardboard box.

I think the Institute Of Nude Wrestling and the gorilla are neat ideas and agree with Pitkin that that would have made for better cover art. I even thought it would have been a neat thing to include some sort of gag "peep show" window that you could open up (kind of like The Quiet Room inside the FTI album).

At any rate----even though the album did do fairly well, I often wonder if WB didn't give it the full push knowing the turmoil that was going on inside the band. Why dump a ton of money into an album by a band that is in the midst of disintegrating and may not be around to recoup the investment. Also, once they started hearing the grumblings from the record shops about the packaging they may have pulled back, knowing it was a big mistake. Also, the album was not strong enough and not worth the investment to recall or re-release in some standard type of packaging. (Here's a question--outside of A Man Called Alice--was this ever given a standard packaging release in any country?).

Overall I think it's a very good album and gets a bad rap--again I think mainly it's overshadowed by B&B and on the other side by WTMN.

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Re: who played what on Muscle of love.

Post by Daggers & Contracts » Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:03 am

Never have had a problem with MOL. Bought Teenage Lament '74/Hard Hearted Alice single because it was all over the radio when I actually was 14. MOL was my 3rd or fourth "True" rock album after begging for Rolling Stones "Goats Head Soup" & Grand Funk "We're An American Band" albums the previous Christmas (blew the volume tube on the old turntable/radio combo with that one!) I still have the yellow vinyl 45 of WAAB. I really like the whole MOL album because it started me on this journey. Crazy Little Child is a departure but an interesting character song also. Could have been a great video 10 years later! ;)
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Re: who played what on Muscle of love.

Post by mestreech » Thu Dec 24, 2015 11:17 am

mr.barlow wrote:I think the main problem is that it's always hard for any band to follow up a blockbuster album with an album that is equally as great. I think The Beatles would be one of the few exceptions.

I love the Muscle Of Love album but being that it was the follow-up to B$B it will always live in it's shadow. With that being said, the album does have it's shortcomings.

I don't have much of a complaint with the songs or track listing. It's obvious that a few are lackluster filler but even those songs are good tracks. It's my opinion that the album suffers from the production. To me it always seemed flat. B&B jumped out at you. It was a living breathing entity. MOL..not so much. I think with Ezrin we may have had an album with a little more life in it. It does have it's moments--namely the track MOL but overall it just seems to go through the motions.

I agree that releasing the album in a brown paper bag as DD suggested would have been a much better idea. Toronto Bob is right on the money as it would be akin to buying a skin mag in the 1970s. Not only did the box make it a nightmare for record shops, but it also fell flat with the fans. Gone was the sleekness of the whole B&B package only to be replaced with a lifeless boring cardboard box. A bad idea, especially for a band which was known for visuals.

The sailor suits were also a big mistake. I think if they went for the more seedy look that was proposed by DD it would have been met with a better response. But again---if it was hidden behind a box or paper bag--it wouldn't have the immediate visual impact that may make someone buy the album. The band's look and appearance had plenty to do with album sales--and now people were looking at a plain cardboard box.

I think the Institute Of Nude Wrestling and the gorilla are neat ideas and agree with Pitkin that that would have made for better cover art. I even thought it would have been a neat thing to include some sort of gag "peep show" window that you could open up (kind of like The Quiet Room inside the FTI album).

At any rate----even though the album did do fairly well, I often wonder if WB didn't give it the full push knowing the turmoil that was going on inside the band. Why dump a ton of money into an album by a band that is in the midst of disintegrating and may not be around to recoup the investment. Also, once they started hearing the grumblings from the record shops about the packaging they may have pulled back, knowing it was a big mistake. Also, the album was not strong enough and not worth the investment to recall or re-release in some standard type of packaging. (Here's a question--outside of A Man Called Alice--was this ever given a standard packaging release in any country?).

Overall I think it's a very good album and gets a bad rap--again I think mainly it's overshadowed by B&B and on the other side by WTMN.

Yes the albums was issued in some countries with the innersleeve so no cardboard.
But I think that happened later.

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Re: who played what on Muscle of love.

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:24 pm

From mr.barlow:
"Here's a question--outside of A Man Called Alice--was this ever given a standard packaging release in any country?)."

Yes and although there is a list at http://www.sickthingsuk.co.uk/content.p ... /a-mol.php, I think there may have been others too.

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Re: who played what on Muscle of love.

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:27 pm

From mestreetch:
"But I think that happened later"

Yes, possibly with some but I'm not aure about all of them though.

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Re: who played what on Muscle of love.

Post by Toronto Bob » Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:52 pm

I bought a new copy of MoL that had a standard non-box sleeve, with Burbank label and book dust cover still included. Odd how MoL was kind of just dropped. No beige or white (non-promo) WB label re-issue. Just the aforementioned "Man Called Alice" Warner Special Products re-release. Even PFY had a green WB and Burbank label and EA had a green, Burbank and beige WB issue

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