Constrictor definitive edition

[A_MichaelUK]

From Keith1980:
"I thought in super duper alice cooper they saod tehy wouldnt sign with zappa for 30k. Instead they signed for 3k so they could keep the rights. What happened?"

That was referring to the publishing (which was shared, not kept) not the recordings (and by the way, that figure was exaggerated, as most people should know).

[mr.barlow]

From pitkin88:
"If he really wanted to I'm sure a call could be made to MCA on his behalf."

No. He has nothing to do with it. What he wants or doesn't want isn't relevant. As Si explained perfectly, those recordings are owned by someone else and always have been.

> If this album was to be re released with bonus cuts it probably wouldnt sell more than a few thousand and would probably would be cost prohibitive.

Yes, as Si stated.

My question is how mich money would be the ball park guess to own his whole catalog rights?

This is purely speculation but I would think it would cost Alice roughly 100+ million dollars (US) to buy and then own the exclusive rights and original master tapes to all WB albums from Love It To Death to Dada. Here is my breakdown:

Love It To Death-10 million
Killer-10 million
School's Out-20 million
Billion Dollar Babies-30 million
Muscle Of Love-5 million
Welcome To My Nightmare (owned by Atlantic Records)
Goes To Hell-5 million
Lace & Whiskey-5 million
From The Inside-5 million
Flush The Fashion-5 million
Special Forces-3 million
Zipper Catches Skin-3 million
Dada-3 million

To me this would be a conservative estimate on all of the above. I have no clue as to how much revenue each album generates for WB on a yearly basis from sales, downloads. licensing, royalties, etc. But the value of each album would be based on current and estimated revenues for each album.

One must also keep in mind that WB--or whichever conglomerate owns it now (I'm not sure), is sitting on a goldmine once Alice retires to the golf course in the sky. An artists catalog in most cases is worth more when they are dead then when they are alive.

I think it would be very safe to say that WB has not plans to ever part with Alice's catalog.

[HORRORHOLIC]

I think one thing some fans aren't thinking is this. For some fans, the Constrictor, Raise Your Fist And Yell etc... era .. IS Alice Cooper. In the late 80's those were the cd's (caseteS ) available in the Alice section. a lot of us only knew Alice because of these recordings.So there are fans, that associate Alice with those album more than Billion Dollar Babies!!

[Babysquid]

From pitkin88:
"If he really wanted to I'm sure a call could be made to MCA on his behalf."

No. He has nothing to do with it. What he wants or doesn't want isn't relevant. As Si explained perfectly, those recordings are owned by someone else and always have been.

> If this album was to be re released with bonus cuts it probably wouldnt sell more than a few thousand and would probably would be cost prohibitive.

Yes, as Si stated.

My question is how mich money would be the ball park guess to own his whole catalog rights?

This is purely speculation but I would think it would cost Alice roughly 100+ million dollars (US) to buy and then own the exclusive rights and original master tapes to all WB albums from Love It To Death to Dada. Here is my breakdown:

Love It To Death-10 million
Killer-10 million
School's Out-20 million
Billion Dollar Babies-30 million
Muscle Of Love-5 million
Welcome To My Nightmare (owned by Atlantic Records)
Goes To Hell-5 million
Lace & Whiskey-5 million
From The Inside-5 million
Flush The Fashion-5 million
Special Forces-3 million
Zipper Catches Skin-3 million
Dada-3 million

To me this would be a conservative estimate on all of the above. I have no clue as to how much revenue each album generates for WB on a yearly basis from sales, downloads. licensing, royalties, etc. But the value of each album would be based on current and estimated revenues for each album.

One must also keep in mind that WB--or whichever conglomerate owns it now (I'm not sure), is sitting on a goldmine once Alice retires to the golf course in the sky. An artists catalog in most cases is worth more when they are dead then when they are alive.

I think it would be very safe to say that WB has not plans to ever part with Alice's catalog.

Regarding Welcome to My Nightmare isn't Atlantic records part of the Warner Music Group?

[pitkin88]

From pitkin88:
"If he really wanted to I'm sure a call could be made to MCA on his behalf."

No. He has nothing to do with it. What he wants or doesn't want isn't relevant. As Si explained perfectly, those recordings are owned by someone else and always have been.

> If this album was to be re released with bonus cuts it probably wouldnt sell more than a few thousand and would probably would be cost prohibitive.

Yes, as Si stated.

My question is how mich money would be the ball park guess to own his whole catalog rights?

This is purely speculation but I would think it would cost Alice roughly 100+ million dollars (US) to buy and then own the exclusive rights and original master tapes to all WB albums from Love It To Death to Dada. Here is my breakdown:

Love It To Death-10 million
Killer-10 million
School's Out-20 million
Billion Dollar Babies-30 million
Muscle Of Love-5 million
Welcome To My Nightmare (owned by Atlantic Records)
Goes To Hell-5 million
Lace & Whiskey-5 million
From The Inside-5 million
Flush The Fashion-5 million
Special Forces-3 million
Zipper Catches Skin-3 million
Dada-3 million

To me this would be a conservative estimate on all of the above. I have no clue as to how much revenue each album generates for WB on a yearly basis from sales, downloads. licensing, royalties, etc. But the value of each album would be based on current and estimated revenues for each album.

One must also keep in mind that WB--or whichever conglomerate owns it now (I'm not sure), is sitting on a goldmine once Alice retires to the golf course in the sky. An artists catalog in most cases is worth more when they are dead then when they are alive.

I think it would be very safe to say that WB has not plans to ever part with Alice's catalog.

I think you are way off with most of these figures and Warners would bite your hand off that those prices. You bareley hear anything from Nightmare downwards on the radio and I doubt there are any songs from those albums used in films or commercials. Cd sales and vinyl are in the toilet and downloads seem to pay little. The band generates the most money from 18 probably followed by School's Out and Elected. Those three are the ones with the most shelf life. These three are the ones you are most likely to hear in commercials, tv spots, movies etc. How many years would it take to recoop $30 million for Billion Dollar Babies? Certainly no one in Alice Cooper would live long enough to do so.

I'd be interested to see what anyone else thinks.

[While Heaven Wept]

I think you are way off with most of these figures and Warners would bite your hand off that those prices. You bareley hear anything from Nightmare downwards on the radio and I doubt there are any songs from those albums used in films or commercials. Cd sales and vinyl are in the toilet and downloads seem to pay little. The band generates the most money from 18 probably followed by School's Out and Elected. Those three are the ones with the most shelf life. These three are the ones you are most likely to hear in commercials, tv spots, movies etc. How many years would it take to recoop $30 million for Billion Dollar Babies? Certainly no one in Alice Cooper would live long enough to do so.

I'd be interested to see what anyone else thinks.

Those figures are completely irrelevant and conjecture.

As for 18 generating the most money?! I'm pretty sure School's Out makes MUCH more, followed by Elected or Poison.

[pitkin88]

I think you are way off with most of these figures and Warners would bite your hand off that those prices. You bareley hear anything from Nightmare downwards on the radio and I doubt there are any songs from those albums used in films or commercials. Cd sales and vinyl are in the toilet and downloads seem to pay little. The band generates the most money from 18 probably followed by School's Out and Elected. Those three are the ones with the most shelf life. These three are the ones you are most likely to hear in commercials, tv spots, movies etc. How many years would it take to recoop $30 million for Billion Dollar Babies? Certainly no one in Alice Cooper would live long enough to do so.

I'd be interested to see what anyone else thinks.

Those figures are completely irrelevant and conjecture.

As for 18 generating the most money?! I'm pretty sure School's Out makes MUCH more, followed by Elected or Poison.

Well that came from Dennis on FB so I will take his word for it. Poison is irrelevant as it is not on Warner.

[Si]

Well that came from Dennis on FB so I will take his word for it. Poison is irrelevant as it is not on Warner.

The question asked was: "how mich money would be the ball park guess to own his whole catalog rights?" not just the Warners albums.

It's a question that is impossible to answer.

[mr.barlow]

Well that came from Dennis on FB so I will take his word for it. Poison is irrelevant as it is not on Warner.

The question asked was: "how mich money would be the ball park guess to own his whole catalog rights?" not just the Warners albums.

It's a question that is impossible to answer.

My mistake. I read it quickly and mistakenly thought he meant the WB catalog. At any rate--you are correct in saying it is impossible to know as I'm sure all involved have no interest in either buying or selling the catalog.

At any rate--the prices I mentioned are all conjecture and speculation. My point being that Alice or anyone for that matter could not pick up the rights for a few millions dollars. The record company does not concern itself if the buyer makes money from their investment, they are concerned only with getting the most money they can so that they can profit.

If there ever was to be a deal for say the whole WB catalog I'm sure it would be sold as a package deal and not piece meal. With that being said, I can see a possibility of WB selling the less successful albums. They have licensed them out a few times over the years and likely got more money from licensing them out than if they had re-release them themselves. I'm wondering if those companies like Metal Blade ever turned a profit on those licensed re-releases.

But, all that has changed since the advent of downloads and streaming and now it would make more sense for WB to hold on to all of the albums as the making of actual product and distribution costs are no longer a factor. Again--I agree than downloading revenue would be minimal on the lesser albums, but the rights are still an asset for the record company.

If Alice, Shep or anybody involved in Alice Cooper alive today would likely never see a penny in profits if they were to buy the catalog in say the next 5-10 years. This would be an investment move as well as getting creative control of the product. This would be done to set up the heirs of Alice and Shep, or whoever financed the purchase.

I'll use Billion Dollar Babies as an example. I think it would be safe to say that that album generates at least 1 million per year worldwide in sales, licensing, royalties, and you name it. The record company would factor in the potential profits over the course of at LEAST the next 10 years when coming to a sale price. Then factor in that the value of the album will increase once Alice dies along with factoring in any future technological advances that may help the sales of music. It then becomes a very expensive endeavour and again, the record company can care less if the buyer makes a profit. If you want to buy what they have you pay the price that they want. Also, again it would be safe to say that WB has no interest in selling which again would only add more cost to the purchase price as they would be in the favorable position. You want to buy what they don't want to sell. I know when I'm in this position my price automatically doubles

Also, one has to remember that Alice and Shep outsmarted WB by re-recording the biggest hits with Ezrin. This was so that they can license out the most desired songs for licensing at a much cheaper price than the fees WB charges for the originals.

Alice and Shep I'm sure have no interest in owning the catalog as there is no way they can personally profit from it in their lifetimes. Again, if it were ever done it would be to set up their heirs and to give creative control to those heirs. The thing is Alice and Shep would be much better off leaving their heirs the money they would spend to acquire the catalog.

Now..everything is hypothetical and will never happen---so why did I just waste my time writing this out

[A_MichaelUK]

From Babysquid:
"Regarding Welcome to My Nightmare isn't Atlantic records part of the Warner Music Group?"

Yes.

[Lucius Morthem]

First of all you should ask... Is Warner Brother WILLING to sell Alice's catalogue?

Take for example what happens with Twisted Sister... They've bought back their entire catalogue but the ones who own Stay Hungry (Rhino (I'm not sure anymore)) were/are not willing to sell for no matter how much money Snider and Co. offer.


So, D'you thing any label would be willing to sell Billion Dollar Babies? School's Out?

[pitkin88]

First of all you should ask... Is Warner Brother WILLING to sell Alice's catalogue?

Take for example what happens with Twisted Sister... They've bought back their entire catalogue but the ones who own Stay Hungry (Rhino (I'm not sure anymore)) were/are not willing to sell for no matter how much money Snider and Co. offer.


So, D'you thing any label would be willing to sell Billion Dollar Babies? School's Out?

All depends on the offer. Does anyone know if all the Warners stuff is still in print?

[pitkin88]

Well that came from Dennis on FB so I will take his word for it. Poison is irrelevant as it is not on Warner.

The question asked was: "how mich money would be the ball park guess to own his whole catalog rights?" not just the Warners albums.

It's a question that is impossible to answer.

My mistake. I read it quickly and mistakenly thought he meant the WB catalog. At any rate--you are correct in saying it is impossible to know as I'm sure all involved have no interest in either buying or selling the catalog.

At any rate--the prices I mentioned are all conjecture and speculation. My point being that Alice or anyone for that matter could not pick up the rights for a few millions dollars. The record company does not concern itself if the buyer makes money from their investment, they are concerned only with getting the most money they can so that they can profit.

If there ever was to be a deal for say the whole WB catalog I'm sure it would be sold as a package deal and not piece meal. With that being said, I can see a possibility of WB selling the less successful albums. They have licensed them out a few times over the years and likely got more money from licensing them out than if they had re-release them themselves. I'm wondering if those companies like Metal Blade ever turned a profit on those licensed re-releases.

But, all that has changed since the advent of downloads and streaming and now it would make more sense for WB to hold on to all of the albums as the making of actual product and distribution costs are no longer a factor. Again--I agree than downloading revenue would be minimal on the lesser albums, but the rights are still an asset for the record company.

If Alice, Shep or anybody involved in Alice Cooper alive today would likely never see a penny in profits if they were to buy the catalog in say the next 5-10 years. This would be an investment move as well as getting creative control of the product. This would be done to set up the heirs of Alice and Shep, or whoever financed the purchase.

I'll use Billion Dollar Babies as an example. I think it would be safe to say that that album generates at least 1 million per year worldwide in sales, licensing, royalties, and you name it. The record company would factor in the potential profits over the course of at LEAST the next 10 years when coming to a sale price. Then factor in that the value of the album will increase once Alice dies along with factoring in any future technological advances that may help the sales of music. It then becomes a very expensive endeavour and again, the record company can care less if the buyer makes a profit. If you want to buy what they have you pay the price that they want. Also, again it would be safe to say that WB has no interest in selling which again would only add more cost to the purchase price as they would be in the favorable position. You want to buy what they don't want to sell. I know when I'm in this position my price automatically doubles

Also, one has to remember that Alice and Shep outsmarted WB by re-recording the biggest hits with Ezrin. This was so that they can license out the most desired songs for licensing at a much cheaper price than the fees WB charges for the originals.

Alice and Shep I'm sure have no interest in owning the catalog as there is no way they can personally profit from it in their lifetimes. Again, if it were ever done it would be to set up their heirs and to give creative control to those heirs. The thing is Alice and Shep would be much better off leaving their heirs the money they would spend to acquire the catalog.

Now..everything is hypothetical and will never happen---so why did I just waste my time writing this out

If we use your guesstimate on BDB's making a million a year against your buying price of $30 million it would take 30 years just to break even.

[mr.barlow]

Exactly--that's my point. Warner Bros (or any label) is not going to sell for any less than what the album is currently worth plus future estimates. They would never sell at a break-even price--what's the point then in selling?

It would be up to the buyer (in this hypothetical Alice and Shep) to have a business plan to turn their investment into a money making project. It is no concern of WB if the buyer makes money. They, the label, WILL make money on the sale, buy selling with a mark-up that exceeds the current value and estimated future revenues. Also, it will be at a major premium as they are parting with some significant recordings.

With today's technology the way it is there is nothing that is really "out of print" these days. Almost any song by any major artist can be found somewhere to buy--or at least to listen. If it is not now, I'm certain that it will be in the very near future. Also, "print on demand" is becoming more and more prevalent for physical product. The labels have it all covered and now can maximize on an artist's catalog as there is no longer the need for the production of physical product or to release singles from albums. Now a person can as easily buy "Dyslexia" from Dada as a single as they could "School's Out". This is one of the reasons that an artist's less than stellar releases are finding new value to the labels.

The "out of print" market is near non-existent these days both with dvds and cds.

[Toronto Bob]

I think the term "out of print" is not synonymous with "unavailable" Virtually the entire catalog is merely a few mouse clicks away (legit and otherwise). New physical product is hit or miss but generally available.

[Keith1980]

The point to my queation was to narrow the figure would it be multi millions or billions? Is it something the band together could do or alice alone.

If i won a huge lottery i would love buy it and give it the respect it deserves. Id force the band to get together and release good remastered quality of each record and solo. Maybe a final box to put it all to bed. With the correct lyrics original way it was intended to be released dvds and bonus stuff.

In return id give them the rights to all of it who should own it.

I still have a hard time believeing wtmn amd scoac videos are the best sound quality out their.

Oh well nice to dream.

[Babysquid]

Well that came from Dennis on FB so I will take his word for it. Poison is irrelevant as it is not on Warner.

The question asked was: "how mich money would be the ball park guess to own his whole catalog rights?" not just the Warners albums.

It's a question that is impossible to answer.

My mistake. I read it quickly and mistakenly thought he meant the WB catalog. At any rate--you are correct in saying it is impossible to know as I'm sure all involved have no interest in either buying or selling the catalog.

At any rate--the prices I mentioned are all conjecture and speculation. My point being that Alice or anyone for that matter could not pick up the rights for a few millions dollars. The record company does not concern itself if the buyer makes money from their investment, they are concerned only with getting the most money they can so that they can profit.

If there ever was to be a deal for say the whole WB catalog I'm sure it would be sold as a package deal and not piece meal. With that being said, I can see a possibility of WB selling the less successful albums. They have licensed them out a few times over the years and likely got more money from licensing them out than if they had re-release them themselves. I'm wondering if those companies like Metal Blade ever turned a profit on those licensed re-releases.

But, all that has changed since the advent of downloads and streaming and now it would make more sense for WB to hold on to all of the albums as the making of actual product and distribution costs are no longer a factor. Again--I agree than downloading revenue would be minimal on the lesser albums, but the rights are still an asset for the record company.

If Alice, Shep or anybody involved in Alice Cooper alive today would likely never see a penny in profits if they were to buy the catalog in say the next 5-10 years. This would be an investment move as well as getting creative control of the product. This would be done to set up the heirs of Alice and Shep, or whoever financed the purchase.

I'll use Billion Dollar Babies as an example. I think it would be safe to say that that album generates at least 1 million per year worldwide in sales, licensing, royalties, and you name it. The record company would factor in the potential profits over the course of at LEAST the next 10 years when coming to a sale price. Then factor in that the value of the album will increase once Alice dies along with factoring in any future technological advances that may help the sales of music. It then becomes a very expensive endeavour and again, the record company can care less if the buyer makes a profit. If you want to buy what they have you pay the price that they want. Also, again it would be safe to say that WB has no interest in selling which again would only add more cost to the purchase price as they would be in the favorable position. You want to buy what they don't want to sell. I know when I'm in this position my price automatically doubles

Also, one has to remember that Alice and Shep outsmarted WB by re-recording the biggest hits with Ezrin. This was so that they can license out the most desired songs for licensing at a much cheaper price than the fees WB charges for the originals.

Alice and Shep I'm sure have no interest in owning the catalog as there is no way they can personally profit from it in their lifetimes. Again, if it were ever done it would be to set up their heirs and to give creative control to those heirs. The thing is Alice and Shep would be much better off leaving their heirs the money they would spend to acquire the catalog.

Now..everything is hypothetical and will never happen---so why did I just waste my time writing this out

Will the value of BDB really increase once Alice dies? Why?

[pitkin88]

The value of an artists catalogue often increases after death. Look at Elvis, Lennon etc. Bowie's Black Star certainly wouldn't have done those numbers without him leaving us.

[Daggers & Contracts]

The value of an artists catalogue often increases after death. Look at Elvis, Lennon etc. Bowie's Black Star certainly wouldn't have done those numbers without him leaving us.

So you want A.C. to die (heaven forbid!!) to increase the numbers of his next album??

[mestreech]

The value of an artists catalogue often increases after death. Look at Elvis, Lennon etc. Bowie's Black Star certainly wouldn't have done those numbers without him leaving us.

So you want A.C. to die (heaven forbid!!) to increase the numbers of his next album??

That's NOT what Pitkin stated.