Constrictor definitive edition

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Constrictor definitive edition

Post by Saint&Sinner » Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:06 pm

Hi all,

I know there are allot of haters towards alice in the mid/late 80's, i am one who loves this period. I know it has been discussed several times but what is stopping alice from doing constrictor again?
A double CD with the original mix on one CD and with an "remixed" version on the next CD with hard rock summer, he's back movie mix and any other outakes/demos they can find.
Ideally with a proper drum track but even if the original electronic drums were beefed up it would be so much better.

Could a kickstarter (or something similar) be used to raise the funds to get it out there? Even some of you who dont like this era would get behind this, wouldn't you? a) because of completest sake and b) because if it works it could open the door for more things like that?

A long shot i know (i know Alice doesn't seem to care about his back catalog at all) but why couldn't he? has the Alice camp looked into this sort of thing?

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Re: Constrictor definitive edition

Post by Si » Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:01 pm

Reissues and such have virtually nothing to do with Alice personally. He doesn`t own the recodings for a start, so such things would really have to be instigated by the original record company (or in this case whoever now owns MCA) or an independent company who saw enough profit in it to licence the material from them.

I'm sure if such a thing happened AC would be perfectly happy to help out in whatever way needed, but as he doesn`t own the recordings personally it would cost a great deal of money to do such a project, and it would likely not sell enough to make a profit.

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Re: Constrictor definitive edition

Post by JasonC » Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:42 pm

we would need to find a indie label that has somehow experience how to get the rights from major label companys and then start a kickstarter with them

if this succeeds, the major label itself maybe sees that there is a market and plans some releases


but why reissues? to me reissues are a big waste of plastic (especially in this day and age - less for the plastic but more for the time and hope wasted)

because the only thing interesting i find are the bsides,demos,unreleased songs,outtakes,live versions

and those are usually only one or two and at most times already available
like the hey stoopid reissue..

so why not go for an outtakes/unreleased project and try to go especially after that - maybe with other labels also involved (warner) and create a compliation with every era - like life and crimes but only with stuff we haven't heard yet

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Re: Constrictor definitive edition

Post by pitkin88 » Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:21 pm

Si wrote:Reissues and such have virtually nothing to do with Alice personally. He doesn`t own the recodings for a start, so such things would really have to be instigated by the original record company (or in this case whoever now owns MCA) or an independent company who saw enough profit in it to licence the material from them.

I'm sure if such a thing happened AC would be perfectly happy to help out in whatever way needed, but as he doesn`t own the recordings personally it would cost a great deal of money to do such a project, and it would likely not sell enough to make a profit.

I doubt Alice has much interest. If he really wanted to I'm sure a call could be made to MCA on his behalf. If this album was to be re released with bonus cuts it probably wouldnt sell more than a few thousand and would probably would be cost prohibitive. A download only release might make more sense.

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Re: Constrictor definitive edition

Post by A_MichaelUK » Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:34 am

From pitkin88:
"If he really wanted to I'm sure a call could be made to MCA on his behalf."

No. He has nothing to do with it. What he wants or doesn't want isn't relevant. As Si explained perfectly, those recordings are owned by someone else and always have been.

> If this album was to be re released with bonus cuts it probably wouldnt sell more than a few thousand and would probably would be cost prohibitive.

Yes, as Si stated.

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Re: Constrictor definitive edition

Post by JasonC » Sat Aug 27, 2016 3:46 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:From pitkin88:

> If this album was to be re released with bonus cuts it probably wouldnt sell more than a few thousand and would probably would be cost prohibitive.

Yes, as Si stated.

maybe as a regular release - but if it would be a only download release or would be selled through kickstarter it would make a profit

if everyone who wants a physical copy pays the price before its produced it would make profit

actually i could imagine that this is the future of the industry
every artist should release archive-material download only - not much work, the fans are happy, it makes profit, keeps the name alive

i even would restore that material for free and bring it on amazon if i had the contacts

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Re: Constrictor definitive edition

Post by Mr.Bluelegs » Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:32 pm

JasonC wrote:
A_MichaelUK wrote:From pitkin88:

> If this album was to be re released with bonus cuts it probably wouldnt sell more than a few thousand and would probably would be cost prohibitive.

Yes, as Si stated.

maybe as a regular release - but if it would be a only download release or would be selled through kickstarter it would make a profit

if everyone who wants a physical copy pays the price before its produced it would make profit

actually i could imagine that this is the future of the industry
every artist should release archive-material download only - not much work, the fans are happy, it makes profit, keeps the name alive

i even would restore that material for free and bring it on amazon if i had the contacts
"Not much work..." Actually, most fans who own the original release would have to be inticed in to rebuying it as a download, so you'd have to offer either a remastered or remixed version with possible bonus tracks which would of course require work and finances.

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Re: Constrictor definitive edition

Post by Babysquid » Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:27 am

JasonC wrote:
A_MichaelUK wrote:From pitkin88:

> If this album was to be re released with bonus cuts it probably wouldnt sell more than a few thousand and would probably would be cost prohibitive.

Yes, as Si stated.

maybe as a regular release - but if it would be a only download release or would be selled through kickstarter it would make a profit

if everyone who wants a physical copy pays the price before its produced it would make profit

actually i could imagine that this is the future of the industry
every artist should release archive-material download only - not much work, the fans are happy, it makes profit, keeps the name alive

i even would restore that material for free and bring it on amazon if i had the contacts
I think a lot of people make the mistake of assuming that just because there's no physical release it doesn't take much work and will make profit. Even if you ask people to pay for a physical release in advance you'd still need enough subscribers to make any of it worthwhile. If only 200 people pay up front for the album it's not going to pay for itself.
The actual cost of putting out a cd or record isn't that great an outlay compared to licensing, mixing, mastering, lawyers, and other costs.
As for the work somebody will have to oversee and organize the project, someone will need to mix the material and someone will have to master it which is just the same amount of work as any other release.

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Re: Constrictor definitive edition

Post by JasonC » Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:21 pm

Babysquid wrote: As for the work somebody will have to oversee and organize the project, someone will need to mix the material and someone will have to master it which is just the same amount of work as any other release.

yea but you would only have to pay that money if the project is kickstarter funded and you already have the money
and maybe there is also the possibility to not work on the audio, just digitalize it an leave it barebones- but i guess that would be unpopluar but better than nothing - and as i said the cost only come when the project is funded

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Re: Constrictor definitive edition

Post by JasonC » Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:30 pm

why are you guys so pessimistic anyway?
there are so many useless compliations and reissues with nothing new to offer and that was produced, so i guess that had to make profit too?

so why not something new - im waiting for this for years but i feel some of you would rather buy a new killer reissue than hear some unreleased songs from great eras because i hear no demand?


also would be ten times better than a hollywood vampires cd..

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Re: Constrictor definitive edition

Post by Babysquid » Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:58 pm

JasonC wrote:
Babysquid wrote: As for the work somebody will have to oversee and organize the project, someone will need to mix the material and someone will have to master it which is just the same amount of work as any other release.

yea but you would only have to pay that money if the project is kickstarter funded and you already have the money
and maybe there is also the possibility to not work on the audio, just digitalize it an leave it barebones- but i guess that would be unpopluar but better than nothing - and as i said the cost only come when the project is funded
Do you understand want leaving the audio bare bones means? You said in a previous post that you'd restore the audio for free which led me to believe that you had an understanding of working in a studio. Do you? Do you understand how multitrack recording works? This would not be just a case of getting hold of the tapes, rolling them, recording them and bob's your uncle!
It's not pessimistic Jason it's realistic!

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Re: Constrictor definitive edition

Post by While Heaven Wept » Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:02 am

JasonC wrote: just digitalize it an leave it barebones
err.... what? What would be the point of that?! I thought this discussion was about a 'definitive edition'?

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Re: Constrictor definitive edition

Post by JasonC » Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:58 pm

i think you misunderstood me i was talking primarily about unreleased recordings

as is said, if this was offered at kickstarter one would have the money before the mix and master and so on

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Re: Constrictor definitive edition

Post by Si » Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:25 pm

JasonC wrote:i think you misunderstood me i was talking primarily about unreleased recordings

as is said, if this was offered at kickstarter one would have the money before the mix and master and so on
How much releasable music do you think is available to be released?

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Re: Constrictor definitive edition

Post by pitkin88 » Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:22 am

Si wrote:
JasonC wrote:i think you misunderstood me i was talking primarily about unreleased recordings

as is said, if this was offered at kickstarter one would have the money before the mix and master and so on
How much releasable music do you think is available to be released?

There are threads on here that talk about what exists that he can look at. I think Constrictor has been mined though there are early demos with Neal and Dennis someone has.

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Re: Constrictor definitive edition

Post by While Heaven Wept » Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:14 pm

JasonC wrote:i think you misunderstood me i was talking primarily about unreleased recordings

as is said, if this was offered at kickstarter one would have the money before the mix and master and so on
I'm not sure who you're expecting to instigate the Kickstarter though. The rights holders would first of all need to agree to it in principle. It's not just a question of raising the funds (which would be substantial).

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Re: Constrictor definitive edition

Post by JasonC » Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:21 pm

when it comes to constrictor there are also the andy mccoy songs

http://sickthings.goatley.com/images/al ... -rocks.jpg


...During pre-production of 'Constrictor', Alice, Kane, Neal Smith and Dennis Dunaway banged out a couple songs-not really produced-more like a live rehearsal just done in one afternoon. I listened to the songs again when we first started working on the box and they weren't really complete enough to be included.
(Renfield, August 1996)


probably would not be badder than the demo & outtake stuff which was released in the oldschool boxset

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Re: Constrictor definitive edition

Post by A_MichaelUK » Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:19 am

From JasonC:
"when it comes to constrictor there are also the andy mccoy songs"

Although you have good intentions, all you have done through this entire thread is make a series of unreasonable assumptions. For one thing, you don't even know how many of these recordings there were, you don't know if these recordings even exist, you don't know if they are accesible and you don't know if they are worth using.

>than the demo & outtake stuff which was released in the oldschool boxset

This is a good example of you not understanding how these come to fruition. Whoever it was (and I was one of them) that decided that "the demo & outtake stuff which was released in the oldschool boxset" should be made available would not necessarily be the same people who would decide what would be made available for a similar project for "Constrictor".

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Re: Constrictor definitive edition

Post by pitkin88 » Sat Sep 03, 2016 8:04 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:From JasonC:
"when it comes to constrictor there are also the andy mccoy songs"

Although you have good intentions, all you have done through this entire thread is make a series of unreasonable assumptions. For one thing, you don't even know how many of these recordings there were, you don't know if these recordings even exist, you don't know if they are accesible and you don't know if they are worth using.

>than the demo & outtake stuff which was released in the oldschool boxset

This is a good example of you not understanding how these come to fruition. Whoever it was (and I was one of them) that decided that "the demo & outtake stuff which was released in the oldschool boxset" should be made available would not necessarily be the same people who would decide what would be made available for a similar project for "Constrictor".

Why would he think the same people would be involved?

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Re: Constrictor definitive edition

Post by pitkin88 » Sat Sep 03, 2016 8:09 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:From pitkin88:
"If he really wanted to I'm sure a call could be made to MCA on his behalf."

No. He has nothing to do with it. What he wants or doesn't want isn't relevant. As Si explained perfectly, those recordings are owned by someone else and always have been.

> If this album was to be re released with bonus cuts it probably wouldnt sell more than a few thousand and would probably would be cost prohibitive.

Yes, as Si stated.

If it is not possible for anyone in the Cooper organization to call MCA how did the MCA stuff get to be on the LAC box set?

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