His voice is too ugly to sing "Poison"

[Mr.Bluelegs]

Rocknroll, why would you join the Sickthings group if you dislike Alice so much? "He's not a good singer"..."He sure sounds like an old woman, too", etc...

[Babysquid]

I can sing "Poison" a million times better than Alice Cooper. As I've said, Alice singing about love is a complete joke.

I thought "poison" was about S&M.

[Rocknroll]

Rocknroll, why would you join the Sickthings group if you dislike Alice so much? "He's not a good singer"..."He sure sounds like an old woman, too", etc...

Because that's the truth. He's known for his shocking stage theatrics, not the voice.

I have heard most of his songs, watched plenty of interviews and so on. I think it's pretty silly if you can't criticize something you have great knowledge about.

And to be fair, mr.barlow said the whole Trash album was crap.

[guttertrash]

rocknroll can't seriously believe the illogical comments he or she is saying and seems to know nothing about rock n' roll.

First of all, any platinum album is a success, and a top 20 album was massive for Alice considering it was his highest charting album since WTMN.

As far as production goes, Appetite For Destruction came out in 1987, and it's production smokes. Raise Your Fist And Yell sounds better than Trash in my opinion and it came out in 1987 also. Advances in technology means a lot less than the creativity of the producer, and Desmond Child has never seemed creative to me. Desmond Child's production is absolutely blah. Limp production for limp songs.


And to claim that Alice's voice is ugly is absolutely ridiculous, 'You and Me' alone shows that he could sing very well, but Poison was not meant to sound pretty. Is It My Body is a very seductive song. Poison is a turd, and there is no singer that can make it good. Trash is aptly titled, and I hope that naming the album after that song was meant to be a humorous nod to his real fans with Alice knowing that he was offering a soulless album to appeal to the tasteless masses that were listening to the faceless bands of that era.

[Rocknroll]

rocknroll can't seriously believe the illogical comments he or she is saying and seems to know nothing about rock n' roll.

First of all, any platinum album is a success, and a top 20 album was massive for Alice considering it was his highest charting album since WTMN.

As far as production goes, Appetite For Destruction came out in 1987, and it's production smokes. Raise Your Fist And Yell sounds better than Trash in my opinion and it came out in 1987 also. Advances in technology means a lot less than the creativity of the producer, and Desmond Child has never seemed creative to me. Desmond Child's production is absolutely blah. Limp production for limp songs.


And to claim that Alice's voice is ugly is absolutely ridiculous, 'You and Me' alone shows that he could sing very well, but Poison was not meant to sound pretty. Is It My Body is a very seductive song. Poison is a turd, and there is no singer that can make it good. Trash is aptly titled, and I hope that naming the album after that song was meant to be a humorous nod to his real fans with Alice knowing that he was offering a soulless album to appeal to the tasteless masses that were listening to the faceless bands of that era.

To claim Alice's voice is seductive is wrong on so many levels. I've heard a lot of music, and Alice Cooper has by far the least attractive and least seductive voice in music.

Tasteless masses? Are you saying a handful of hardcore Alice fans have better taste than the masses? You just contradicted yourself there. To be fair, Trash was very original. It's not typical rock, it's shock rock. Anyone who think Trash is Bon Jovi have no knowledge about rock. Bon Jovi is not shock rock. Period.

Shock rock is darker, serious, less cheesy than typical rock.

[Babysquid]

From Rocknroll:
>Had it been recorded in 1987 for instance, the sound quality wouldn't be as good.

This makes no sense.

Yes it does. There's a big difference between an album released in 1987 and one released in 1989. With each year, studio album quality got better and better.

That's quite an assumption. Without taking into account the numerous different formats for recording that were adopted and available throughout the ''80s for your statement to be true every studio would have to be constantly updating their equipment with new and "better" stuff the minute it came out. The skips outside of studios would be full of neve desks, studer A800s, Nueman U47s, Mini Moogs and 1959 Les Paul Standards! Can you honestly say that you know "Trash" was recorded using all the up to the minute studio tech? In fact can you say that this is the same for every album recorded in 1989?

As for Alice being known not for his voice but mainly for his shocking stage antics if that was truely the case then he and the band would never have needed to develop beyond Easy Action and the chicken incident!

I suggest you take a while to think through your next post. We are not attacking you. We are simply disagreeing with you because most of what you've said is completely daft.

[guttertrash]

rocknroll can't seriously believe the illogical comments he or she is saying and seems to know nothing about rock n' roll.

First of all, any platinum album is a success, and a top 20 album was massive for Alice considering it was his highest charting album since WTMN.

As far as production goes, Appetite For Destruction came out in 1987, and it's production smokes. Raise Your Fist And Yell sounds better than Trash in my opinion and it came out in 1987 also. Advances in technology means a lot less than the creativity of the producer, and Desmond Child has never seemed creative to me. Desmond Child's production is absolutely blah. Limp production for limp songs.


And to claim that Alice's voice is ugly is absolutely ridiculous, 'You and Me' alone shows that he could sing very well, but Poison was not meant to sound pretty. Is It My Body is a very seductive song. Poison is a turd, and there is no singer that can make it good. Trash is aptly titled, and I hope that naming the album after that song was meant to be a humorous nod to his real fans with Alice knowing that he was offering a soulless album to appeal to the tasteless masses that were listening to the faceless bands of that era.

To claim Alice's voice is seductive is wrong on so many levels. I've heard a lot of music, and Alice Cooper has by far the least attractive and least seductive voice in music.

Tasteless masses? Are you saying a handful of hardcore Alice fans have better taste than the masses? You just contradicted yourself there. To be fair, Trash was very original. It's not typical rock, it's shock rock. Anyone who think Trash is Bon Jovi have no knowledge about rock. Bon Jovi is not shock rock. Period.

Shock rock is darker, serious, less cheesy than typical rock.

[Mr.Bluelegs]

Rocknroll, why would you join the Sickthings group if you dislike Alice so much? "He's not a good singer"..."He sure sounds like an old woman, too", etc...

Because that's the truth. He's known for his shocking stage theatrics, not the voice.

I have heard most of his songs, watched plenty of interviews and so on. I think it's pretty silly if you can't criticize something you have great knowledge about.

And to be fair, mr.barlow said the whole Trash album was crap.

Again, why bother joining a group for an artist you obviously dislike. You say it's the "truth" that he can't sing. Sure, you can criticize any aspect of his talents and discography, we all have favorites and dislikes, however your opinion seems to be that he's a talentless hack. My point being, why join and immediately start shredding the guy to pieces?

[concolz]

The original poster's opinions/statements seem to have become somewhat contradictory and convoluted. Nevertheless, I'll add my two cents' worth. 'Poison' is one of the very few '86-'91 songs that I actually like. IMO it's a good pop-rock single, and eminently suits Alice's raspy voice.

The 'Trash' album overall though - part of AC's 'exchange my creative soul for a chartbuster' Faustian pact (which obviously worked) - is simply dreadful; musically generic and, often, lyrically crass, it's ultimately sunk by four truly awful tracks: 'Trash/Maniac/Talkin/Gun'. It's the sound of 'Dynasty' and 'Dallas' - disposable pap for the mall masses - where any magic 'otherness' of Warner Brothers Alice Cooper has been ruthlessly bleached out.

As for Alice's singing in general, well, I think that's been one of his major selling points. He's been able to effortlessly adopt several different types of voice, which is more than most singers can do. (I think his current voice still sounds pretty good; it's the 'same old' routines/setlist, plus Hollywood Vampires, that has caused me to gradually lose interest.)

[guttertrash]

While Alice has had horror-themed elements in his music, I would say that overall his music tends to be more light-hearted and focused on being fun more so than being serious, and I don't find it all that dark. Trash was an album mostly about sex. It wasn't even that serious or dark. Shock rock refers to bands that create stage shows emphasizing shock value, but these bands do not by any means all fit under "darker, serious, less cheesy." KISS blows that view of shock rock put of the water.

As for his singing, what you like and what I like is subjective, so you can dislike his voice, but you can't state that your opinion is definitive and the truth, because we all have different taste in what we like.

I honestly can't take you seriously, because you seem like you are just saying things without any substance.

I would love to know your favorite bands, rocknroll.

[NotSoPerfect]

As for his singing, what you like and what I like is subjective, so you can dislike his voice, but you can't state that your opinion is definitive and the truth, because we all have different taste in what we like.

Agreed! Saying his voice is "not seductive" or too harsh for a certain song is an opinion, not a fact. It's like two people trying a bite of the same food. It's not FACT that it's good or bad, it's opinion.

[Rocknroll]

As for his singing, what you like and what I like is subjective, so you can dislike his voice, but you can't state that your opinion is definitive and the truth, because we all have different taste in what we like.

Agreed! Saying his voice is "not seductive" or too harsh for a certain song is an opinion, not a fact. It's like two people trying a bite of the same food. It's not FACT that it's good or bad, it's opinion.

I wish Alice could come on this forum and explain it to you. His voice was never supposed to be attractive. It's not about opinion, it's the truth.

Do you honestly think parents back in the 70's would've hated Alice if his voice was beautiful? Nope.

[NotSoPerfect]

As for his singing, what you like and what I like is subjective, so you can dislike his voice, but you can't state that your opinion is definitive and the truth, because we all have different taste in what we like.

Agreed! Saying his voice is "not seductive" or too harsh for a certain song is an opinion, not a fact. It's like two people trying a bite of the same food. It's not FACT that it's good or bad, it's opinion.

I wish Alice could come on this forum and explain it to you. His voice was never supposed to be attractive. It's not about opinion, it's the truth.

Do you honestly think parents back in the 70's would've hated Alice if his voice was beautiful? Nope.

Given that you have been talking about Poison specifically, and my post states "for a certain song" (which is also referring to Poison, since that is the original topic of this thread), I'm not sure why bringing the 70s in makes any sense as a response to my comment.

I was answering about Poison, and opinions on that song. Getting into what his voice sounds like in each era and each song would take forever. Of course his voice isn't "beautiful" on each song, but I love that about Alice. He can pull off sensitive and beautiful (Every Woman Has a Name), rough (PA#9), pure rock (NMMNG), imitation of others (Jesse Jane), comedy (I Love America), and so much more.

I'm very impressed that you know Alice's exact intent with regard to his voice, but I think it would be silly to say that he had the exact same goal for his sound for every song, album, era, etc.

[guttertrash]

So you are admitting that it is a choice on Alice's part not to sing "pretty." He however has chosen at times to do so, and it scored him his biggest hits by crossing over into pop balladry with Only Women Bleed, I Never Cry, and You and Me, because Alice Cooper, the band, was infamously concering to parents due to the stories in the press, but Alice, the solo star, toned things down enough and went for a pop element to find more mass appeal, and he became less scary to people and a star. Your arguments are changing, and you are simply showing that you are arguing just to argue.

I would still like to know your favorite bands, since you have heard so much music.

[Babysquid]

And I'd like to know your answer to my question regarding your knowledge on studio technical evolution throughout the '80s?

[Babysquid]

however your opinion seems to be that he's a talentless hack. My point being, why join and immediately start shredding the guy to pieces?

Not that I agree with most of what they are saying but to be fair to Rocknroll he or she didn't imply that. In fact they said he is "the best songwriter out there" in their first post.

[mr.barlow]

Rocknroll, why would you join the Sickthings group if you dislike Alice so much? "He's not a good singer"..."He sure sounds like an old woman, too", etc...

Because that's the truth. He's known for his shocking stage theatrics, not the voice.

I have heard most of his songs, watched plenty of interviews and so on. I think it's pretty silly if you can't criticize something you have great knowledge about.

And to be fair, mr.barlow said the whole Trash album was crap.

You're right--I do think it's crap and everyone on this forum knows my feelings on the album. I know some are sick of me cutting it down all of the time. But, I've always stated along with my criticisms the fact that I understand and agree with why it was made and why Alice chose to go that route. It was a brilliant business decision and it worked. The problem was it was not genuinely Alice.

If the album itself is to be compared with other bands and production jobs at the time than it's off the charts. The production is top notch for the era and genre, and Alice's vocal performance is in top form. The problem is--it's a Bon Jovi album--not an Alice Cooper album.

As far as your dislike for Alice's vocals throughout his career, I'd love for you to gives us your critique of albums like School's Out, Billion Dollar Babies, Lace & Whiskey, Flush the Fashion and Dada. Also, your thoughts on Ezrin's production jobs, and maybe some thought on the Jack Richardson/Jack Douglas production of Muscle Of Love.

While your at it--what are your thought about the drumming on Constrictor?

[Rocknroll]

I would still like to know your favorite bands, since you have heard so much music.

Artist's with voices I would rate 10/10;

Billie Joe Armstrong from Green Day

Paul McCartney from The Beatles

I hate all their songs though. So that's why I have no favorite artist. They either sound amazing but write shitty songs, or they sound awful but write amazing songs as with Alice.

As I said earlier, Alice Cooper has co-written my favorite melodies of all time. But I would never listen to him singing any of these below. That's my point. An excellent song writer but an awful singer.

Poison
Might As Well Be on Mars
Snakebite
Bed of Nails
Hell Is Living Without You

[rgallie]

I am struggling to comprehend this.

I know this is for me only so subjective, but if I don't like a singers voice then every song that singer sings on is a write off for me and I would not be on the singers (or bands) forum writing about their career and I probably would not know many songs (especially the album filler) that singer has sung on.

[mr.barlow]

As I said earlier, Alice Cooper has co-written my favorite melodies of all time. But I would never listen to him singing any of these below. That's my point. An excellent song writer but an awful singer.

Poison
Might As Well Be on Mars
Snakebite
Bed of Nails
Hell Is Living Without You

Okay then--who would you like to hear sing the above songs? Give us examples of who you think are great singers.

Again--give us your thoughts on albums and songs off of School's Out, Lace & Whiskey, Dada and The Last Temptation.

Also, why lets here some of your thoughts on comparing different albums and their production values.

You stated you are an expert when it comes to being able to know when an album sounds good so please share with us less fortunate souls your expertise and critique of the Ezrin produced albums. Also, maybe you could even give us a technical rundown on the brilliant production and the equipment used on Constrictor.