Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

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pitkin88
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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by pitkin88 » Tue May 03, 2016 11:10 pm

killer wolf wrote:
guttertrash wrote:Pitkin, why do you say anything? You are just a forum troll who does little more than spout negative comments just to be heard and engaged.
so why do you, and others, pander to him? block him and ignore him.


I've been saying this too but people cant help read what I post.

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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by pitkin88 » Tue May 03, 2016 11:20 pm

VinceRaven wrote:
While Heaven Wept wrote:Do we have to go through this negativity constantly on here? It's so very simple, if you don't like the covers or the show or whatever.... just don't go to the gig. Vote with your feet.

What good does it achieve to just whine and bitch on here every day? It's so boring.

Personally, I don't care for HV or the covers in the set, but that's just me. I'm sure there are lots of people who enjoy it. If Alice wants to do it then that's up to him, I just won't pay to see it.
This is the crux of the matter, who actually enjoys it? Very, very few appears to be the answer, so the continued inclusion of covers makes no sense.

i think this is completely untrue unless you are just talking about the relatively few here that are complaining. Both Si and the scholarly Amuk have said the covers go down well with the crowds. They must be going down fairly well as Alice has been playing them for some years now. If they were so bad he would have jettisoned them. Some here who dont like them actually liked the covers on the HV album and are going to see him perform them live with the HV's. Very strange.

Side bar to maybe Amuk. Are tickets down in sales for these new shows? I remember Keith 1850 saying a HV show was only half sold out. If attendances are the same then it looks like so few care that he might as well keep playing them. It seems like he genuinely loves doing so and who are we to say stop paying your respects?

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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by pitkin88 » Tue May 03, 2016 11:21 pm

Paulimo wrote:
jram wrote:
pitkin88 wrote:Please list all the great bands with three guitarists so I can compare them to those with two or even one.
Iron Maiden, live and in the studio since 2000.
The E Street Band.

have we reached 10 yet?

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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by pitkin88 » Tue May 03, 2016 11:23 pm

mr.barlow wrote:The Tuesday night Mariachi Band at my local Mexican Restaurant.

Ok I will go to this show on the condition you buy me a Chimichonga.

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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by Si » Wed May 04, 2016 12:36 am

pitkin88 wrote: Both Si and the scholarly Amuk have said the covers go down well with the crowds.
Again, I don't thnk that's what I actually said. I believe what I said was something like "the covers seem to go down better in the US then in the UK".
pitkin88 wrote: Some here who dont like them actually liked the covers on the HV album and are going to see him perform them live with the HV's. Very strange.
Completely different thing and you know it.
No one minds Alice doing a cover here and there, the problem is having so many of them, and having them as the centerpiece of the show, when he could be doing his own songs.
The Vampires is a covers project. You go to see the vampires you expect to hear covers. That isn`t the case at an Alice Cooper show.
You know all this so why is it strange?
pitkin88 wrote: Side bar to maybe Amuk. Are tickets down in sales for these new shows? I remember Keith 1850 saying a HV show was only half sold out.
There have only been three HV shows so far, 2 club shows that sold out in seconds, and one huge festival in Brazil.
pitkin88 wrote:It seems like he genuinely loves doing so and who are we to say stop paying your respects?
That is the only valid reason for having them in the show, and has already been stated. It doesn`t mean we have to like it.

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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by Si » Wed May 04, 2016 12:41 am

pitkin88 wrote: have we reached 10 yet?
Not an expert on them but I think you can add The Eagles to the list at one point (around Hotel California?).
How about the league of crafty guitarists, who at times had a lot more then three guitarists.

Are we going for a specific number?
I'm honestly not sure what your point is with this. Are you saying any band using three guitars sounds muddled? That three guitars are automatically a waste of time regardless of the music being played?

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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by pitkin88 » Wed May 04, 2016 1:10 am

Si wrote:
pitkin88 wrote: have we reached 10 yet?
Not an expert on them but I think you can add The Eagles to the list at one point (around Hotel California?).
How about the league of crafty guitarists, who at times had a lot more then three guitarists.

Are we going for a specific number?
I'm honestly not sure what your point is with this. Are you saying any band using three guitars sounds muddled? That three guitars are automatically a waste of time regardless of the music being played?

My point was originally regarding Alice. Three guitarists is ridiculous. If two cant do the job then something is wrong with the players. I did like it when Bow Wow Wow and The Glitterband had two drummers though.

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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by rtbuck » Wed May 04, 2016 1:33 am

I believe Mr. Barlow mentioned Duane Hitchings playing guitar & keyboards on Special Forces tour & it did bring back memories of seeing that show at Melody Fair in North Tonawanda(near Buffalo, NY). During Generation Landslide all 3 guitarist & the bassist jammed up front & it was great. The show was in the round with a rotating stage that was pretty small. Anyway, that's all...it just brought back a good memory!

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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by pitkin88 » Wed May 04, 2016 1:35 am

rtbuck wrote:I believe Mr. Barlow mentioned Duane Hitchings playing guitar & keyboards on Special Forces tour & it did bring back memories of seeing that show at Melody Fair in North Tonawanda(near Buffalo, NY). During Generation Landslide all 3 guitarist & the bassist jammed up front & it was great. The show was in the round with a rotating stage that was pretty small. Anyway, that's all...it just brought back a good memory!

My favourite solo period.

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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by mr.barlow » Wed May 04, 2016 1:41 am

Mine too--without a doubt.

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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by Daggers & Contracts » Wed May 04, 2016 1:55 am

Paulimo wrote:
jram wrote:
pitkin88 wrote:Please list all the great bands with three guitarists so I can compare them to those with two or even one.
Iron Maiden, live and in the studio since 2000.
The E Street Band.

have we reached 10 yet?

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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by VinceRaven » Wed May 04, 2016 7:07 am

pitkin88 wrote:
VinceRaven wrote:
While Heaven Wept wrote:Do we have to go through this negativity constantly on here? It's so very simple, if you don't like the covers or the show or whatever.... just don't go to the gig. Vote with your feet.

What good does it achieve to just whine and bitch on here every day? It's so boring.

Personally, I don't care for HV or the covers in the set, but that's just me. I'm sure there are lots of people who enjoy it. If Alice wants to do it then that's up to him, I just won't pay to see it.
This is the crux of the matter, who actually enjoys it? Very, very few appears to be the answer, so the continued inclusion of covers makes no sense.

i think this is completely untrue unless you are just talking about the relatively few here that are complaining. Both Si and the scholarly Amuk have said the covers go down well with the crowds. They must be going down fairly well as Alice has been playing them for some years now. If they were so bad he would have jettisoned them. Some here who dont like them actually liked the covers on the HV album and are going to see him perform them live with the HV's. Very strange.

Side bar to maybe Amuk. Are tickets down in sales for these new shows? I remember Keith 1850 saying a HV show was only half sold out. If attendances are the same then it looks like so few care that he might as well keep playing them. It seems like he genuinely loves doing so and who are we to say stop paying your respects?
Show me some reviews or a bunch of comments from the Net that are complimentary or even non derogatory about the covers section in the Alice solo shows and I'll reconsider that statement. It's not just the personal opinion of the people that post on here, it's their knowledge of friends, acquaintances and observations of others at the shows that are forming this view. As I said before, I know of a whole number of people who have only seen Alice once, on the Raise The Dead tour, and they thought the covers honked.

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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by A_MichaelUK » Wed May 04, 2016 10:31 am

From pitkin88:
"Side bar to maybe Amuk. Are tickets down in sales for these new shows?"

To whom are you referring? The Hollywood Vampires or Alice Cooper concerts? If the latter, then, not that I'm aware of and as I already told you, several shows are already showing as being sold out but that doesn't mean this will continue if the more serious fans become disgruntled. As has been discussed many times, it's about striking a balance and that isn't always easy to do.

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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by A_MichaelUK » Wed May 04, 2016 10:45 am

From pitkin88:
"If two cant do the job then something is wrong with the players. I did like it when Bow Wow Wow and The Glitterband had two drummers though."

So tell us what was "wrong". Tell us what Steve Hunter and Damon Johnson were doing "wrong" that made it necessary for a third guitarist to be introduced.

You are either beginning to sound desperate or the reputation of being a troll is something you enjoy. The actual number is irrelevant. What is relevant is what any band or artist wants to do at that time (for instance, David Bowie once had three guitarists so you can add that to your list). There are plenty of bands that only had one guitarist so by your logic, "two" would be too many as well. At one point, Alice was forced to have only one guitar player and a keyboard player that was quickly brought in to help. It didn't make things better or worse (although I actually liked it). It was just different. Try and understand that concept. That is all that Alice did in 2011 when an additional guitarist was introduced. He likes it. He likes the way it looks and he likes the way it sounds in his monitor. It really is that simple. We all know you hate it when someone likes something you don't, but when you yourself have a successful career lasting several decades, you will be allowed to make your own creative choices even if someone else disapproves.

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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by A_MichaelUK » Wed May 04, 2016 10:48 am

From VinceRaven:
"Show me some reviews or a bunch of comments from the Net that are complimentary or even non derogatory about the covers section in the Alice solo shows and I'll reconsider that statement."

Unfortunately, there are a few on Facebook (and also one or two here but you must have missed those) and even so, that shouldn't make you "reconsider that statement".

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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by Devon » Wed May 04, 2016 3:39 pm

pitkin88 wrote:My point was originally regarding Alice. Three guitarists is ridiculous. If two cant do the job then something is wrong with the players. I did like it when Bow Wow Wow and The Glitterband had two drummers though.
I don't see why this implies something is wrong with the players. If something was "wrong with the players" then they wouldn't be in the band. Alice currently has the exact same number of band members has he did since 1975 (save for 2003-2011.) The only difference is instead of having a dedicated keyboard player that role shifted in to the third guitar. There are lots of benefits to this. From a musical standpoint this can allow for better arrangements of some of the more complex songs and you can even have more faithful recreations of the songs (keep in mind there are several instances where there were three guitars going on the original recordings all at once.) It can add to the dynamic of the band members and the show, etc.

Black Sabbath has a live keyboard player, who, I don't know if they still do but at one time would also play rhythm guitar live, does this mean something is "wrong" with Tony Iommi? Lynyrd Skynyrd added Steve Gaines, a third guitarist, before the plane crash and, whether you like them or not, the classic lineup from the 1970s was undeniably very talented and tight, so there was nothing "wrong with the players." Foo Fighters are also using three guitarists now, so does Blue Oyster Cult, etc.

If you aren't a fan of a three guitar line up, that is fine, but to try to justify it in Alice's case by stating that it's done because "the other two aren't good" as has been implied is a little over the top.

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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by Lucius Morthem » Wed May 04, 2016 4:30 pm

Yup, Black Sabbath has Wakeman on keyboards AND guitar, and it sounds fantastic, mind blowing (Y)

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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by cooperrocks » Wed May 04, 2016 4:51 pm

The bottom line for me is Alice's current band sounds tremendous. In my opinion, Alice's current lineup is the best sounding band of his great career as a collective whole.

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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by tuneylune » Tue May 10, 2016 2:43 pm

If you're going to talk about bands using three guitar players, add Poco from 1969-1973 to that list...Richie Furay, Jim Messina., replaced by Paul Cotton and Rusty Young.
As a purist, prefer one /two guitars, but if it can work with three, why not. BOC always sounded good as did The Eagles, Lynyrd Skynyrd etc...I think even Ted Nugent had three EXTRA guitar players with him on one tour in the early 1980's...maybe Daggers and Contracts can give a definite answer.
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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by killer wolf » Wed May 11, 2016 7:33 am

regarding multiple instruments, i was watching Metallica's S&M DVD and i tell you waht, that orchestra's taking the p155, no one needs that many violins etc...
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