Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by Si » Sun May 01, 2016 9:46 pm

pitkin88 wrote:
guttertrash wrote:
pitkin88 wrote:I think the three guitars is pointless. The songs might avtually benefit from less clutter. The piss poor rehash stage show is as bothering to me as the song selection. So much more could be done and without considerable cost. The wow factor has completely disappeared.

How the - do you know if three guitars is too cluttering at the shows? Many bands have guitar tracks without actually using a hired gun, do they sound too cluttered also? You should probably just stop listening to music in general, since most bands record WAY more than two guitar tracks to their albums, because they have to sound like a cluttered, meaningless mess.

Many shows you see have pre-recorded tracks for guitar, vocal, and keys. I have a friend who tour manages with a band that has one guitar player, but they have tracks for up to 4 guitar parts on some songs. It's absurd, but people have no idea that it's pre-recorded tracks, because they want the show to sound like the album.
How the expletive do you know it's not? It's called an opinion you dope. Im general most bands don't need three guitarists on stage. :clap:

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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by RemarkablyInsincere » Sun May 01, 2016 11:05 pm

I made the comment some years back that if Alice wanted to do some covers as part of his show, he's earned the right. And he has.

So we indulged him for most of the last 3 years on it and now many of us have bought tickets to see his almost solely covers act, the Hollywood Vampires.

So how about Alice and management indulge us a little bit, cut the BS, and have Alice Cooper do a pure Alice Cooper show.
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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by mr.barlow » Mon May 02, 2016 12:35 am

Seriously--who wants to pay money to hear Alice Cooper sing "Pinball Wizard"?

The more I think about the more ridiculous it gets.

Maybe next tour he can fit in "Iron Man", along with "Some On The Water", "Sweet Home Alabama" and "Livin On A Prayer".

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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by mr.barlow » Mon May 02, 2016 12:42 am

Think about it--he could do "Seven & Seven Is" on his current solo tour and make a lot of hardcore fans happy. He could even do "I Got A Line On You" which would be a bit better.

Better yet --here's a great idea. Let's have an Alice Cooper concert where Alice Cooper performs songs by Alice Cooper!

The guy has nearly 50 years of output to choose from----I just don't get it?

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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by jram » Mon May 02, 2016 4:07 am

pitkin88 wrote:Please list all the great bands with three guitarists so I can compare them to those with two or even one.
Iron Maiden, live and in the studio since 2000.

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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by Si » Mon May 02, 2016 9:33 am

jram wrote:
pitkin88 wrote:Please list all the great bands with three guitarists so I can compare them to those with two or even one.
Iron Maiden, live and in the studio since 2000.
Lynyrd Skynyrd (classic live album 'One More From The Road')

Foo Fighters

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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by sickthing » Mon May 02, 2016 10:42 am

Pearl Jam

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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by Lucius Morthem » Mon May 02, 2016 10:56 am

With three guitars, you've got more depth in the music.... I can't believe some people's minds

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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by concolz » Mon May 02, 2016 12:04 pm

'Casuals' vs 'die-hards' - that's been going on since 1975. Many ACG fans weren't impressed with ballads (I love the first two), but they ended up being best ever selling singles. 'Trash' - an album I loathe - was a mega success; so the hard-nosed appeal to 'casuals' paid off.

With recent setlists, Alice calculates that a generalised, greatest hits approach (whoever they're by!!), brings in more punters than having 'deep cuts'. Re 'die-hards', well they'll grumble, but most will still buy tickets.

Even so, it does beg a few questions. Why can't some of the props/routines be changed? Would it be so uneconomical to dust off the electric chair for 'Black Juju'; a song that's surely far more dramatically engaging than 'Love Me Two Times'. What about the flaming torches and 'proper' scaffold for 'Killer'? Being seen to make more of an effort might placate some naysayers. As to The Hollywood Vampires: if AC is now locked in to playing covers, then what's the point of a sideline that does the same (apart from two revenue streams, of course)?

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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by pitkin88 » Mon May 02, 2016 2:18 pm

Lucius Morthem wrote:With three guitars, you've got more depth in the music.... I can't believe some people's minds
So all the Alice shows prior to the unholy 3 have less depth? Hunter and Wagner really needed help in 75.

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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by pitkin88 » Mon May 02, 2016 2:21 pm

Si wrote:
jram wrote:
pitkin88 wrote:Please list all the great bands with three guitarists so I can compare them to those with two or even one.
Iron Maiden, live and in the studio since 2000.
Lynyrd Skynyrd (classic live album 'One More From The Road')

Foo Fighters
Wow the list keeps growing. :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock:

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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by RemarkablyInsincere » Mon May 02, 2016 3:06 pm

pitkin88 wrote:Please list all the great bands with three guitarists so I can compare them to those with two or even one.
pitkin88 wrote:Wow the list keeps growing. :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock:
Of all the things to get upset about, being upset by three guitarists seems silly to me.

They could have four or five guitarists on stage for all I care if the show was updated and the set list were better.
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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by Si » Mon May 02, 2016 3:09 pm

pitkin88 wrote:
Lucius Morthem wrote:With three guitars, you've got more depth in the music.... I can't believe some people's minds
So all the Alice shows prior to the unholy 3 have less depth? Hunter and Wagner really needed help in 75.
No, they had a keyboard player instead

And no, Ryan and Nita don`t need "help". The point is to recreate the songs on the albums. They all play different parts, in the same way two guitars and a keyboard would. It's not rocket science.

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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by Si » Mon May 02, 2016 3:11 pm

RemarkablyInsincere wrote:
pitkin88 wrote:Please list all the great bands with three guitarists so I can compare them to those with two or even one.
pitkin88 wrote:Wow the list keeps growing. :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock:
Of all the things to get upset about, being upset by three guitarists seems silly to me.
He isn`t upset. Just trying to find the negative any way he can.

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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by pitkin88 » Mon May 02, 2016 3:19 pm

RemarkablyInsincere wrote:
pitkin88 wrote:Please list all the great bands with three guitarists so I can compare them to those with two or even one.
pitkin88 wrote:Wow the list keeps growing. :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock:
Of all the things to get upset about, being upset by three guitarists seems silly to me.

They could have four or five guitarists on stage for all I care if the show was updated and the set list were better.

You must love those Rock n Roll Hall of Fame jams at the end of the show then.

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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by pitkin88 » Mon May 02, 2016 3:21 pm

Si wrote:
RemarkablyInsincere wrote:
pitkin88 wrote:Please list all the great bands with three guitarists so I can compare them to those with two or even one.
pitkin88 wrote:Wow the list keeps growing. :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock:
Of all the things to get upset about, being upset by three guitarists seems silly to me.
He isn`t upset. Just trying to find the negative any way he can.

I could argue you are being negative about 4 cover songs when you say he puts on a great show night after night.

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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by Si » Mon May 02, 2016 3:29 pm

pitkin88 wrote: I could argue you are being negative about 4 cover songs when you say he puts on a great show night after night.
That isn`t an argument. I am being negative about it, as are many others. However I don`t condemn the performances of the musicians or the general show just because of them and I don`t search for anything negative to say about every aspect of "Alice Cooper".
In my opinion (as others have said) is if they dumped the covers and put in three other originals the setlist would be pretty good.

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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by pitkin88 » Mon May 02, 2016 4:26 pm

Si wrote:
pitkin88 wrote: I could argue you are being negative about 4 cover songs when you say he puts on a great show night after night.
That isn`t an argument. I am being negative about it, as are many others. However I don`t condemn the performances of the musicians or the general show just because of them and I don`t search for anything negative to say about every aspect of "Alice Cooper".
In my opinion (as others have said) is if they dumped the covers and put in three other originals the setlist would be pretty good.

now it's 3 songs that are making all the difference!! Talk about splitting hairs. Odd that you still perpetuate the lie that all i say is negative stuff about Alice Cooper. Go back and read some of the many threads I have started.

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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by Si » Mon May 02, 2016 5:21 pm

pitkin88 wrote: now it's 3 songs that are making all the difference!! Talk about splitting hairs. Odd that you still perpetuate the lie that all i say is negative stuff about Alice Cooper. Go back and read some of the many threads I have started.
I would guess most AC songs are slightly longer then the short covers bing payed. So just thought fitting in three in the time taken by the 4 covers was closer to the mark.

But okay, not EVERYTHING you say is negative, I will give you that. Just most of it, especially if it concerns anything in the last 10+ years.
You also have some fair points on occasion, which I make a point of replying to because they are fair points.
For example you asked a fair question at the start of this topic, and I sat and thought about it and posted an answer as best I could from my perspective. I assume you agreed with it as you haven`t responded to it (not that you have to).
Instead you derailed your own topic by changing the subject completely.

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Re: Is The Casual Fan Ruining Alice Cooper?

Post by cooperrocks » Mon May 02, 2016 5:58 pm

I agree with Si. We are never going to agree on the setlist. As much as I love the ACG songs, my opinion is there are a few too many songs from that era in the set. I think you need to do a couple of modern tunes from the last 15-20 years. We need to remember there area few young people at shows still and hopefully Alice can still win over some new fans and many of them like the Trash/Hey Stoopid era or the heavier Brutal P!anet/Dragontown era sound. But that isn't the issue. The issue is the cover tunes which many are complaining about. All you have to do is just replace the covers with Alice songs or compromise and play two covers and two Alice songs.

One other thought, is Alice really drawing a casual crowd these days at his own shows? I would argue it is more diehards. The casual audience is more likely when he is opening or doing a coheadling bigger venue tour. It would seem to me the show would if anything throw in more rare tunes than the opposite. Though Alice's biggest hits mainly occurred in the 70's, he has always seemed like modern artist to me until recently.

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