Social Commentary Alice anyone?

[recoop]

As I have grown older, and perhaps more mature, I have grown away from Alice's horror schtick and have started to value his songs where there is an element of social commentary. Now that has existed in some form since way back but I am thinking mainly of his solo career. I am beginning to value songs like "Grim Facts", "Man of the Year" and "What do you Want" more highly. I am glad that, so far, his role in the Hollywood Vampires hasn't embraced horror imagery/ the Alice stage act (albeit their was a devilish look to the Grammys set which equated more with decadence to me).

At one time Alice was seen by some as an intelligent social commentator and I can even remember him being revered as a sort of modern philosopher. However, the more he has dragged dolls around and continued with mock violence, somehow I have been feeling less engaged. I don't want to see Alice descend further into panto and I think there are serious issues he can choose as song topics/album topics. Brutal Planet succeeded in my view on the philosophical/historical front and The Last Temptation picked up a few issues- Nothing's Free could sum up modern life!

Alice is a serious and successful man who has a lot more to offer. He has always had his pulse on social and political matters (as evidenced by the 1976 interview recently posted on another thread by Steven Crayne). It probably says more about me but I am now looking for more considered/intellectual output from Alice in his next solo project and maybe even a return to satirical lyrics and social commentary.

[killer wolf]

i want him to make good songs and music, that's all. as long as the songs aren't preachy, he can sing about whatever he likes.

"maybe even a return to satirical lyrics and social commentary"
return? i can't recall him leaving

[dadascot]

I totally agree with recoop. The general public just think Alice is the guy with the snake who sings horror songs. Play them 'no tricks' only woman bleed, pick up the bones and when dad comes home. None of these songs seem preachy to me and obviously there are countless more. I personally could do without another slasher serial killer!

[Si]

I totally agree with recoop. The general public just think Alice is the guy with the snake who sings horror songs. Play them 'no tricks' only woman bleed, pick up the bones and when dad comes home. None of these songs seem preachy to me and obviously there are countless more. I personally could do without another slasher serial killer!

While I love the theatrics and dark image I do think its the main reason Alice (band and solo) doesn`t get the respect they deserve.
It's the same with any darker/harder sub-genre vs the mainstream. Horror/fantasy films generally don`t get much respect from 'the establishment', Metal/Hard rock doesn`t get the respect.
Of course some examples don`t deserve to be held up as great works of art, but the best is as good as anything out there if not better. They CAN take things off the beaten path and explore things the mainstream would rather ignore, but from the outside they can look silly to someone who will never take the time to explore further, too look under the image they have and discover there is sometimes more being said then it at first appears.

[patrick]

agree with recoop and fashion flusher.
Alice always had a mix of humor and horror and intelligent things, a combiniation which I could not find on Acas, that was (imo) to much forced in that killer-story-thing.
but the social commentary was there from in the beginning (LITD)(Generation Landslide.. )

[A_MichaelUK]

From patrick:
"but the social commentary was there from in the beginning (LITD)(Generation Landslide.. )"

Maybe even earlier ("Apple Bush" for example).

[Gunner]

Good thread, and excellent initial post by recoop. I have often thought about this.

I always saw 'The Alice Cooper Concept' as something that was initially created to mirror the decadence of the western world - in particular the USA. A concept that would use dark humour, surrealism etc. Cooper would play the victim, the perpetrator, the abuser, the abused etc etc, but it fast became a horror panto..and further degenerated into a heavy metal panto. Now, it seems that Alice has almost become like a parody of himself to a degree! I find this sad because I have introduced MANY people to Alice Cooper (musically of course) that had NO IDEA of the extent of the body of his work, the diversity, the quality of the music and the lyrics. This is mainly because he has been stereotyped with that image of a snake and the eye make-up...something many are not looking to investigate further.

I think the horror thing really crept in on the Killer album (although Black Juju was creepy) which was probably only meant to be the character that Alice stepped into for the theme of that album initially. It seemed to go on from there.

Alice has been very poignant with some lyrics on social issues. I always thought that Bowie may have been disappointed that Alice hit a formula and stuck with it so rigidly when he may have felt, as I do, that he had great potential to be more 'relevant'.

The Last Temptation and Brutal Planet were somewhat efforts at social commentary albeit of a Christian nature.

[mr.barlow]

I think with the 1986 comeback, Alice decided to stick with the winning formula and never again to stray too far from it.

The horror schtick reached it's saturation point with Welcome To My Nighmare. It was a huge album and tour and that was the image that stuck with him. There were elements from the beginning, but it all started to change at the end of Billion Dollar Babies with "I Love The Dead". Muscle Of Love had the sailor suits and was far from being horror, but once Alice went solo he picked up with where I think he, Ezrin and Shep wanted to take the character.

The marketing of that album and character was incredible and would stick with Alice until this day both as a blessing and a curse.

It was after WTMN that Alice started try different styles, sounds and characters. All of them did not catch on as he was too tied to that classic character and horror imagery.

From 1976 to 1986 we had Alice try out may styles and personas and is my favorite Alice period because of that. The only one that worked (and was not very successful) in that period was when he reverted back to "horror" Alice after the Maurice Escargot debacle. It was then new wave Alice, Special Forces punk Alice (my fave), skinny tie Alice, and then Dada (back to the horror elements).

In my opinion the music on any of those albums was as good, if not better than anything that was being released at the time. The problem was that Alice was boxed in by the shadow of the horror character and the music buying public would not accept him in any other incarnation. Also I think Warner Bros did not want to spend the time any money to try and reinvent Alice.

I really think that Alice was trying to follow Bowie's lead by trying to reinvent himself every so many years. Bowie was able to do this as his fan base was much more open minded to the changes he made in style and character. Alice's shadow can be seen right here in this forum to this day as a lot of fans want more horror--it's all about the horror/macabre.

A lot went into the 1986 comeback and a lot of marketing reseacrh was done to see what the fans and what the record buying public wanted and expected from Alice. What they wanted was more "Welcome To My Nightmare" thus they brought it back with "The Nightmare Returns". Since then--Alice has stuck to the winning formula.

He has had great artistic/social commentary moments since then with The Last Temptation and Brutal Planet but for the most part he has stuck to the same old formula.

It seems to me Alice has a lot of energy and passion lately and I'm hoping this translates to some great new music. There is a lot going on in the world right now that is great material for Alice to comment on in his lyrics, so lets hope he does.

[Lucius Morthem]

I've got mixed emotions with this topic...

First I LOVE Alice's darker side, I liked ACAS, I loved the Psycho-Drama tour, the woman-abusing stage show and everything... but it is true that Alice has become in part a parody of himself... Now he seems like a extremely cool old guy on stage but I hate it when he goes full on his "HUMOUR" like in Ghouls gone wild..


Also, when he goes "deep" and serious with his songs, they're great. Last Temptation was the album who brought him back to a wider audience, brought him back to South America,

And Brutal Planet was his punch back to American (and world) society, specially after Columbine.

I just wish he could go back to that on his albums (But I'd hate if he started to be preachy)

[Daggers & Contracts]

I would like to see more of what he & Andrew WK captured in their interview.
Some of the ACG & some of the early solo Alice. Maybe the 2 of them could try writing together w/an emphasis on the Detroit Sound.

[Model Citizen]

Good thread, and excellent initial post by recoop. I have often thought about this.

I always saw 'The Alice Cooper Concept' as something that was initially created to mirror the decadence of the western world - in particular the USA. A concept that would use dark humour, surrealism etc. Cooper would play the victim, the perpetrator, the abuser, the abused etc etc, but it fast became a horror panto..and further degenerated into a heavy metal panto. Now, it seems that Alice has almost become like a parody of himself to a degree! I find this sad because I have introduced MANY people to Alice Cooper (musically of course) that had NO IDEA of the extent of the body of his work, the diversity, the quality of the music and the lyrics. This is mainly because he has been stereotyped with that image of a snake and the eye make-up...something many are not looking to investigate further.

I think the horror thing really crept in on the Killer album (although Black Juju was creepy) which was probably only meant to be the character that Alice stepped into for the theme of that album initially. It seemed to go on from there.

Alice has been very poignant with some lyrics on social issues. I always thought that Bowie may have been disappointed that Alice hit a formula and stuck with it so rigidly when he may have felt, as I do, that he had great potential to be more 'relevant'.

The Last Temptation and Brutal Planet were somewhat efforts at social commentary albeit of a Christian nature.

Post of the year right here, Gunner. You perfectly put into words a sentiment I've been trying to express for a long time. That's exactly how I feel too. I enjoy the macabre facet of his writing but it has pushed him into a box that he has rarely ventured out of since. Well said, man.

[A_MichaelUK]

From Gunner:
"I think the horror thing really crept in on the Killer album (although Black Juju was creepy) which was probably only meant to be the character that Alice stepped into for the theme of that album initially. It seemed to go on from there."

There is quite a bit of exaggeration there. If, as you suggest, we start with "Killer", there were obviously some horror elements there in two specific songs but (off the top of my head) maybe one on "School’s Out", two at the most on “Billion Dollar Babies”, none on "Muscle Of Love", maybe one song on “Alice Cooper Goes To Hell”, none on “Lace And Whiskey” or “Flush The Fashion” (albeit lots of “social commentary” there), one song (how scary) on “Special Forces”, one song on “Zipper Catches Skin”, one song (how scary) on “Constrictor”, one song on “Trash”, one song on “Hey Stoopid”, one song (with "social commentary") on “The Last Temptation”, a couple on “Brutal Planet” (with "social commentary"), maybe four” on “Dragontown” (with "social commentary"), one song on “The Eyes Of Alice Cooper”, one song on “Dirty Diamonds” and one on “Welcome 2 My Nigtmare”. Even the albums which are known for being “macabre” (such as “Welcome To My Nightmare”, “From The Inside”, Da Da”, “Raise Your Fist And Yell) aren’t full of “macabre” elements. A possible exception would be “Along Came A Spider” but even that would be debatable. Just because Alice writes more about the “macabre” than probably any other mainstream artist, doesn’t mean that’s all (or even the majority) of what he does if you go through each song on each album. That is partly why I’ve always hated the term “shock rock” - it is actually a minority element of his career but the impact and power of the “macabre” elements are so powerfully and theatrically, strong and iconic, they can make you forget everything else that he does. That is why there is a perception of him being trapped in that box, because journalists (and let’s face it, the public too) are lazy and don’t look beneath the surface. That is why you were exactly right earlier in your post when you wrote “This is mainly because he has been stereotyped with that image of a snake and the eye make-up...something many are not looking to investigate further.” but in the rest of your post, you are making the same mistake (as did model citizen as well). As to the direct subject of the thread, the post from killer wolf is the best, or at least, the most accurate.

[mr.barlow]

I think the whole horror/macabre/shock rock image was a result of the very successful marketing of the character. It's what came to define him and a lot of it had to do with his being an artist who depended a great deal on visuals and theatrics. Here is an example-- Alice could be singing "You & Me" --probably the biggest piece of syrupy schmaltz ever recorded--it out sweetens The Carpenters-- yet if Alice performs it in the classic make-up, in the context of a horror/macabre based stage show the fans love it, yet if he did it as Escargot or pop star Alice the fans would hate it.

As Andy said, a lot of the songs on L&W were written for ACGTH. if they appeared on that album or an album that continued with the nightmare or "horror" theme and was marketed as such, it's my opinion the album would have been more successful. The gamble on Maurice Escargot along with a very weak and in some spots embarrassing album turned into a disaster.

Thus the quick reversal back to the tried and true character and formula with FTI.


I "discovered" Alice in 1980-1981. I was aware of the classic character but it never defined him for me. I came to know Alice in the Special Forces character and to this day it's my favorite incarnation. I think I was fortunate as I came to know Alice in a different way than a lot of fans who were there from the original band and mid-1970s solo Alice. To me Alice was never a "shock rocker" or "horror" Alice but a versatile artist who always was trying different things.

I was thrilled when he came back in 1986 and resurrected the classic character but also diappointed that he went back into the same old rock formula. But thankfully he gave us "The Last Temptation" and "Brutal Planet", both of which rank in the best albums of his career. But if he performed "It's Me" or "Take It Like A Woman" as Escargot would the fans have embraced it.

[mr.barlow]

I think the whole horror/macabre/shock rock image was a result of the very successful marketing of the character. It's what came to define him and a lot of it had to do with his being an artist who depended a great deal on visuals and theatrics. Here is an example-- Alice could be singing "You & Me" --probably the biggest piece of syrupy schmaltz ever recorded--it out sweetens The Carpenters-- yet if Alice performs it in the classic make-up, in the context of a horror/macabre based stage show the fans love it, yet if he did it as Escargot or pop star Alice the fans would hate it.

As Andy said, a lot of the songs on L&W were written for ACGTH. if they appeared on that album or an album that continued with the nightmare or "horror" theme and was marketed as such, it's my opinion the album would have been more successful. The gamble on Maurice Escargot along with a very weak and in some spots embarrassing album turned into a disaster.

Thus the quick reversal back to the tried and true character and formula with FTI.


I "discovered" Alice in 1980-1981. I was aware of the classic character but it never defined him for me. I came to know Alice in the Special Forces character and to this day it's my favorite incarnation. I think I was fortunate as I came to know Alice in a different way than a lot of fans who were there from the original band and mid-1970s solo Alice. To me Alice was never a "shock rocker" or "horror" Alice but a versatile artist who always was trying different things.

I was thrilled when he came back in 1986 and resurrected the classic character but also diappointed that he went back into the same old rock formula. But thankfully he gave us "The Last Temptation" and "Brutal Planet", both of which rank in the best albums of his career. But if he performed "It's Me" or "Take It Like A Woman" as Escargot would the fans have embraced it.

[Mr.Bluelegs]

Here's my two cents on GTH and L&W. Side 1 of GTH is great, would not change a thing. Side 2, I'd replace "Give the Kid.." & "Chasing Rainbows" with a couple of rockers. "Give the Kid..."was OK for a while, but it is dispensable. As someone mentioned here, the production on the album is great, sounds better than WTMN. Possibly a bit too much reverb on certain drum tracks, but it doesn't take away from the production at all. Now L&W, side 1 is great except for "Damned if..." Which I would leave off the album. Three good rockers in a row to start it off. The reverb on "Road Rats" is overkill and it does take away from the overall punchiness to the track, but still a good rocker ( and light years better than Todd Rundgren's production of the remake on Roadie- although I'm a huge Todd fan). Side 2, eliminate "King of the Silver Screen" which, like "Give the Kid..." was nice/ comical the first few times but is completely dismissable. Replace that and "No More Love..." with a couple of rockers and you'd have a really good side 2. "My God" is a completely overlooked masterpiece. If you haven't listened to it in a while, put on some good headphones and bliss out. "You and Me" is a beautiful song, I don't care how he looks when he sings it (make up or not), it is a beautiful song with wonderful lyrics ( ask B. Dylan). WB may have exploited him for ballads, but boy was he coming up with some great ones. Finally, "No More Love at..." It's a really good song for its genre. Maybe not so much for Alice to release, but it should have been given to someone in the disco field, preferably a female artist like Yvonne Elliman. Alice's vocal is buried low in the mix among the female back up singers. Again, it could've been a hit for a disco artist.

[A_MichaelUK]

From mr.barlow:
I think the whole horror/macabre/shock rock image was a result of the very successful marketing of the character.

Exactly. Once they realised that if they continued just being androgynous (before David Bowie), 'avant - garde' and more based on performance art, then they would starve, the image had to change.

[MrD Returns]

Well, interesting read so far. Lot's of valid points made. As far a social commentary goes let's wait until after November and see if either Trump or Cruz get's elected prez and if so, then the material will write itself.

[AlongCameASpider27]

Well, interesting read so far. Lot's of valid points made. As far a social commentary goes let's wait until after November and see if either Trump or Cruz get's elected prez and if so, then the material will write itself.

Or if crazy Killary gets elected...that's scarier than anything the Coop could write

[mr.barlow]

Well, interesting read so far. Lot's of valid points made. As far a social commentary goes let's wait until after November and see if either Trump or Cruz get's elected prez and if so, then the material will write itself.

Or if crazy Killary gets elected...that's scarier than anything the Coop could write

Forget about what The Coop could write, Killary is a person created by Satan himself!