PFOLGORE wrote:My Stars, released on the Schools Out Album was perhaps the epiphany and validation rolled in to one to Alice, Bob Ezrin, and Dick Wagner that Alice as a solo Artist didn't need the band. During the Love to Death session Bob became aware of the the limitations of the band's musical abilities. Musically, the songs 18 and Caught in a Dream are the bands best efforts without being propped up by Bob Ezrin or hired talent.
That is just your opinion. To call those tracks the bands best efforts negates things things like 'Black Juju' which was being performed before Ezrin was heavily involved. Sure, Ezrin helped streamline some things and focus the band, but the ideas still came from them.
PFOLGORE wrote:
Listen to the bands freshman and sophomore attemps Pretties for You and Easy Action, the only thing that redeems the albums are Alice's clever lyrics; musically and technically they have garage band talent. Most bands do not get three chances, Alice Cooper was very fortunate to have cross paths with their management and producers.
Fortunate indeed, but your argument takes the albums out of the context they were recorded. PFY was a recording of the band basically warming up to record. Zappa pulled the plug before the band even knew their album was complete! Even then the results are great and just because you don`t like them doesn`t mean no one else does. EA showed progression but again they had very limited time to get the results they wanted. This isn`t unusual especially back then. It wasn`t until LITD that they had more time and by then the experience they had had from touring and rehearsing was showing.
PFOLGORE wrote:
In Dennis Dunway's book he goes in to details about the Love it to Death recording sessions but is silent on the making Killer, Schools Out, Billion Dollar Babies and Muscle of Love. This is most likely because, Love it to Death is the last album where the band even had close to a majority of control on the product that they put out.
Your logic here is deeply flawed. In Dennis' original vision of the book it was to END after Love It To Death. That is why there is so much more detail up to that point, with less about the later albums. It's that simple. The later material was added at the request of the publishers to tell a complete story. The manuscript was already much too long before that material was added, so extensive editing was done to get the book that was finally published. What you have was a book that was originally too long (for the publishers) being pruned while still having more material added to cover another 4 years of tales. If the book had been as DD originally intended it would have been HUGE and only have covered up to LITD.
PFOLGORE wrote:
Bob Erzin influence is felt throughout the whole Album. The Second Coming, the Ballard of Dwight Fry are melodic keyboard driven that has to be all Bob.
Except Michael played those keyboards on the album and live, so saying the band weren`t up to it is obviously incorrect. Plus the germ of those songs came from the band. Ezrin was certainly influential but he couldn`t have done anything without the band.
PFOLGORE wrote:
On Killer, Rick Derringer is brought in to play lead on Under My Wheels. The best straight forward rock song on the Album.
Arguably the best, and note how you narrow down the criteria to dismiss half the album. Sure UMW is a great "straight forward rock song" but the albums key songs to me are 'Halo Of Flies', 'Dead Babies' and 'Killer' which are far more sophisticated and came from the band. Parts of Killer were being played back on the Easy Action tour. Did Ezrin have an influence? Of course, but again the bulk of the music and the performances came from the band.
As to Rick playing on 'Under My Wheels' so what? Glen played the solo live night after night. Maybe he wasn`t feeling it when they were recording in the studio. Maybe he had other things personal on his mind at the time, or maybe he had just pulled a cute girl and was busy. Studio time costs money so Rick did a guest appearance. Big deal. It didn`t make or break that song.
PFOLGORE wrote:
On Schools Out My Stars could be labeled as Alice's first solo career song. Blue Turk, lyrically, is classic Alice, the best in the business the music is great too, the only problem is you don't go from play distorted guitars leads and simples chord progressions as found on the first three albums to the sublime instrumentals on Blue Turk. Grand Finale also does not sound the like original band. The only songs on the album that sound true to the original band are Public Animal Number 9, and Schools Out. Glen or Michael could never pull off the aggressive leads on My Stars. The is all Alice, Dick and Bob.
Again you ignore the fact that a) the band was progressing at a fast pace b) they, especially Dennis, always had big ideas (Black Juju, Killer etc) but seldom the time to see them through and c) the band played these songs live including 'My Stars'! To say they couldn`t is patently untrue.
I agree that Ezrin had a big influence throwing ideas out but again he was facilitating ideas that came from the band. For example 'Gutter Cats' comes from Alice and Dennis' love of 'West Side Story'. Ezrin was able to capture what they wanted. Neal was a fan of the classic jazz drummers and that was brought out on the album.
I do agree that 'My Stars' was a signpost to what would follow but again the songs and the performances came primarily from the band. I believe back then the end result was more important then who played what. It could be argued maybe that the band should have put a stop to having guests but hindsight is 20/20 and I think at the time the end result sounded great so they were relatively happy.
PFOLGORE wrote:
Billion Dollar Babies is essentially Alice's first solo Album. Sure Dennis and Neal may have played on every song, but with the exception to the drum intro on Billion Dollar Babies those roles are pretty much generic.
Twaddle. The album wouldn`t have sounded the way it does without Neal, Dennis and Michael. Glen was having issues so they had guests covering for him and of course that influenced the sound but the backbone of the album is STILL the band. 'Elected' is 'Reflected' and one of the best songs released under the Alice Cooper name. 'Unfinished Sweet' again taps into the bands love of Bond movies and their sense of humour. I agree that again the influence of Wagner and Ezrin points the way to WTMN but to negate the influence of Dennis and Neal and Michael's songwriting and performances to "generic" is bonkers.
PFOLGORE wrote:
Alice's Lyrics stand out on this Album and the amazing guitar playing. We know it was not Glen and Michael's role was probably limited to playing some rhythm on certain tracks.
And co-writing almost every song. Take the bands input out of B$B and you would have a pretty short album. 9 of the albums 11 songs were co-written by Michael.
As to lyrics, the first thing most people like about a song is NOT the lyrics, it's the music. Some rapper might write a great set of lyrics but if the music and its performance sucks the song sucks.
PFOLGORE wrote:
On Muscle of Love, the troops pushed back a little bit and Bob walked. Without Bob the Album had a some great tracks but did not meet expectations.
Whose expectations? While it might not quite reach the hieghts of the previous few albums it's far from a dud. Also, if Ezrin was solely resonsible for the jazzy elements of 'School's Out' as you intimated above, how do you explain 'Crazy Little Child'? If Ezrin was reponsible for the Bondish 'Unfinished Sweet' then how did they come up with 'The Man With The Golden Gun'?
Again you have a situation of Glen's issues taking him out of the equation, and Michael I don`t think has ever claimed to be a lead guitarist as such (although he has played lead parts occasionally of course) so they used Mick Mashbir and Dick Wagner to complete the album.
PFOLGORE wrote:
Last their solo Album Battle Axe, did not have Glen, who actually may have helped it by giving a little rawer edge. But there is nothing note worthy about the Album. Even its best tracks are not as good as Return of the Spiders, or Reflected.
No they aren`t, but no one is saying Ezrin didn`t have any influence (far from it) that was missing from 'Battle Axe'. He took what they band had and brought it to the next level. But the starting point was always the band and their ideas. I always thought the 'battle axe' idea (futuristic gladiators) was a little dopey and not very "Alice Cooper" but it isn`t a terrible album, and who knows what it could have been with Bob and Alice on board. I think if Alice had been there the lyrics would have been substantially different for a start.
PFOLGORE wrote:
Alice solo Album Welcome to my Nightmare is a classic and the natural progression from Billion Dollar Babies.
True
PFOLGORE wrote:
Michael's solo work is unremarkable
Also true in general, although there are a few moments in there that are cool.
PFOLGORE wrote:
Alice's talent outgrew the bands. To keep up management had to bring hired guns so the music was palatable to the public and sold records.
Rubbish. So did Management bring in Wagner etc? or was it Bob? And what about Mashbir who was a band friend from years before?
PFOLGORE wrote:
What are the chances of three high school buddies all having superstar talent. There is no chance.
Really? So DD and Neal had no talent???????? Seriously???
What about other bands who formed young? Iommi the only talent in Sabbath? Townsend the only talented musician in The Who? Who was the only talented one in Pink Floyd? The Beatles even? Maybe they didn`t all strictly attend the same school (I don`t know off hand) but they were all bands that formed young and feature immensely talented musicians.
The original band featuring Vince, Dennis and Glen WORKED at their craft to become "superstar talent" as Neal and Michael did before and after they joined. That is what it takes. Musicians are constantly improving and learning new things.
PFOLGORE wrote:
Alice was blessed with the talent and the other went along for the ride as long as they could but in the end the facade collapsed and Alice, Dick and Bob were left standing.
That takes away every other factor involved in a band and every other event that happens surrounding them, from relationships (both in and out of the band), opinions, circumstances, illnesses etc etc. Every event effects everything that comes after. Where would Alice be without the songs. Sure, Alice has input into writing the music but he needs someone else to bounce the ideas of, to come up with the riffs and the breaks to hang his ideas and words on. For the early years that was mainly Michael, Dennis and Neal and to write off their contribution is frankily ludicrous.
